Let me tell you why Cap wins against Spiderman.
1) He's a better fighter and strategist.
2) He knew Spiderman like an open book and knew exactly how to confront him.
3) All of Cap's moves were predetermined to place Spiderman in positions that gave Cap an advantage. He herds him exactly where he wants him to be.
You still never answered my question, "Just what was Spiderman trying to accomplish in the confrontation?" Once you answer that question and stop making excuses as to why Spiderman looked outclassed in the fight, you might end up opening your mind to the possibilities and reasons why he indeed lost. Until then, you'll never understand why even though the bottom-line is, you're reading a goddamn book with pictures to illustrate just how it happened.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Let me tell you why he loses:
Let me tell you why Cap wins against Spiderman.1) He's a better fighter and strategist.
2) He knew Spiderman like an open book and knew exactly how to confront him.
3) All of Cap's moves were predetermined to place Spiderman in positions that gave Cap an advantage. He herds him exactly where he wants him to be.
1) While his strategy makes up for some of it, he's much slower than Spiderman going all out.
2) He can't take a full force 20 ton punch going at 400mps velocity in the first second style of punch.
3) He is even less effective without his shield.
4) There is nothing he can do but lose if Spiderman gets on a wall.
5) He can't break free of his webbing.
6) He is less mobile, less agile, and less intelligent. He's the tactician but Spiderman thinks well on the fly.
7) Spiderman has precog.
8) Spiderman isn't as "predictable" because his style is unorthodox. Iron Man made a counter-style to Cap, but it would be difficult to do so against someone who doesn't even follow an orthodox style and has one of their own.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I answered your question, your problem is you didn't like the answer, and you will continue to say that noone answered it regardless, because you are holding on to one piece of evidence despite multiple pieces to the contrary.
You still never answered my question, "Just what was Spiderman trying to accomplish in the confrontation?"
Spiderman himself didn't know what he was trying to accomplish, that's the part of his internal struggle and thus part of the story, you are trying to negate that by seeing what you want to see. Because if Spiderman really, REALLY wanted to just end Cap and that fight, there wouldn't be much that Cap could do. 😬
Originally posted by OneDumbG0It looked more like a draw than anything, Spiderman took his weapon and Cap left, a typical crossover finish, which are indeed poor evidence in a versus forum debate for the reasons below.
Once you answer that question and stop making excuses as to why Spiderman looked outclassed in the fight, you might end up opening your mind to the possibilities and reasons why he indeed lost.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Until then, you'll never understand why even though the bottom-line is, you're reading a goddamn book with pictures to illustrate just how it happened.
The problem is that THIS is a hypothetical match that HASN'T happened, and the rules specify a different situation than the one presented in the story, so it's BAD evidence, stop using it.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterExactly. I never said Spidey would loose...😕
So why would he lose?Cap can't take these full out hits on this forum, only in a comic book where he needs to live. That need not apply here.
Spiderman has too many advantages.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let me tell you why Cap wins against Spiderman.1) He's a better fighter and strategist.
2) He knew Spiderman like an open book and knew exactly how to confront him.
3) All of Cap's moves were predetermined to place Spiderman in positions that gave Cap an advantage. He herds him exactly where he wants him to be.You still never answered my question, "Just what was Spiderman trying to accomplish in the confrontation?" Once you answer that question and stop making excuses as to why Spiderman looked outclassed in the fight, you might end up opening your mind to the possibilities and reasons why he indeed lost. Until then, you'll never understand why even though the bottom-line is, you're reading a goddamn book with pictures to illustrate just how it happened.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Let me tell you why he loses:1) While his strategy makes up for some of it, he's much slower than Spiderman going all out.
2) He can't take a full force 20 ton punch going at 400mps velocity in the first second style of punch.
3) He is even less effective without his shield.
4) There is nothing he can do but lose if Spiderman gets on a wall.
5) He can't break free of his webbing.
6) He is less mobile, less agile, and less intelligent. He's the tactician but Spiderman thinks well on the fly.
7) Spiderman has precog.
8) Spiderman isn't as "predictable" because his style is unorthodox. Iron Man made a counter-style to Cap, but it would be difficult to do so against someone who doesn't even follow an orthodox style and has one of their own.
Spidey would overcome Steve. He is too much for boyscout to handle.
Cap can break a normal guy's neck with a punch. Spider-Man could break his more easily, but Cap simply wouldn't let him.
He's not like Batman where he can simply tie Spidey up after hitting him with anti-Spider gas, but he's a supreme field strategist. In the midst of combat he's probably the toughest. He's beaten dozens of other top martial artists, 10 ton hitters, fought Namor and even charged into battle against Hulk on a few occasions. He even knocked out Ock, one of Spidey's toughest enemies.
In the recent fight, he would have tagged Peter all day if it wasn't for the Stark armor and that distraction.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Let me tell you why he loses:1) While his strategy makes up for some of it, he's much slower than Spiderman going all out.
Dont think you can prove that.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
2) He can't take a full force 20 ton punch going at 400mps velocity in the first second style of punch.
Cap has taken shots from Powerman who can lift 20 tons , this is a different Powerman.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
3) He is even less effective without his shield.
I dont think Spdiermans webbing can stick to Caps shield, its Vibarnuim and absorbs impact.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
4) There is nothing he can do but lose if Spiderman gets on a wall.
He doesnt have to.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
5) He can't break free of his webbing.
Yeah but he can cut the webbing and it doesnt stick to his shield.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
6) He is less mobile,
Yeah but Cap does not have to follow Spiderman up a wall.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
less agile,
Not by a great deal.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
and less intelligent.
Ok thats fanboyish, we all know Spiderman is smart but everyone knows that Cap is smarter.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterHe's the tactician but Spiderman thinks well on the fly.
In other words hes not as smart as Cap, eventhough Peter is smart.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
7) Spiderman has precog.
Dont mean a damn thing. He'll get punched in the face all day by top tier martial artists.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
8) Spiderman isn't as "predictable" because his style is unorthodox. Iron Man made a counter-style to Cap, but it would be difficult to do so against someone who doesn't even follow an orthodox style and has one of their own.
Cap has stuided his style and has learnt an alien martial art in a day. Cap can adapt.
Originally posted by Alfheim1. Proved all that in the other thread. I'm tired of posting stuff and it being denied, prove that Cap is very close to Spiderman speed, because the general consensus is that he isn't faster or more agile.
Dont think you can prove that.Cap has taken shots from Powerman who can lift 20 tons , this is a different Powerman.
I dont think Spdiermans webbing can stick to Caps shield, its Vibarnuim and absorbs impact.
He doesnt have to.
Yeah but he can cut the webbing and it doesnt stick to his shield.
Yeah but Cap does not have to follow Spiderman up a wall.
Not by a great deal.
Ok thats fanboyish, we all know Spiderman is smart but everyone knows that Cap is smarter.
In other words hes not as smart as Cap, eventhough Peter is smart.
Dont mean a damn thing. He'll get punched in the face all day by top tier martial artists.
Cap has stuided his style and has learnt an alien martial art in a day. Cap can adapt.
2. Are you serious? Cap isn't even bulletproof, so again how does he take these punches on the forum?
3. Cap is a better tactician, he is not more intelligent than Spiderman, that is fanboyish. Peter is one of the best thinkers in marvel and even Cap isn't perfect as the boards want him to be. Spiderman gets hit in the face by famous peak martial artists in a crossover match, but he's also taken on teams of heroes without being hit, and in the forums he's not worshipping Cap, it's to his best. Which is better than Cap's best.
Cap is also more likely to webbed than logan, he has no leverage, and can only cut with his shield, too bad that small shield can't cover his body, and Spiderman has two arms that can web in TWO places, like a stream. He aims on at his head and the other at his legs, he's going to block his head first, and his legs will be open.
I'd actually say they're even, or maybe 6/10 for Spidey.
If you look at a stat sheet, Spider-Man shouldn't really be beaten by anyone under the 40 ton range. He's been around for all these decades, so of course he's had some pretty nice victories and hits, but he was never portrayed as that great in a fight.
Or as great as he could possibly be. He could easily, but would never one shot Daredevil because that'd likely mean killing him, for example. So I don't think he'd be anymore likely to get in Cap's face and not take some lumps for it.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
I'd actually say they're even, or maybe 6/10 for Spidey.If you look at a stat sheet, Spider-Man shouldn't really be beaten by anyone under the 40 ton range. He's been around for all these decades, so of course he's had some pretty nice victories and hits, but he was never portrayed as that great in a fight.
Or as great as he could possibly be. He could easily, but would never one shot Daredevil because that'd likely mean killing him, for example. So I don't think he'd be anymore likely to get in Cap's face and not take some lumps for it.
Thats the typical Spider-Man that always holds back cause he's scared of holding back. A non-jobbing Spider-Man would cave in the face of many a street level character
Could? Yes. Would? No, not really. Unless he went against one of the "clones with the exact same stats as the original" that tend to hang around.
If you go by "could" then the both of them could go against the Punisher at the same time and die.
I don't count using restraint as jobbing, since even Cap wouldn't kill a super powered foe if it were possible.
I agree. But we both know the general consensus amounts to shit-all, C. Go to one of the Hulk boards, for example.
Anywho; you know my opinion on the speed thing. Cap isn't faster or as fast as Spiderman. But he's close enough to keep up and not be overwhelmed. Combined with an INCREDIBLE knowledge of Martial Arts, and overwhelming study of Peter.....he can hold his own in a fight.
Yes, the fight that gets posted is Spidey whilst hero-worshipping. But the thing is, I believe that a hero-worshipping Spidey would lose to Cap pretty damned often - the numbers I post are taking that fact into account.
If Spidey keeps his range up, he'll beat Cap almost every time. There is no way he CAN'T, considering he could just start swinging toyota's at Cap with his webbing. And that's only if he gets tired of trying to web Cap up.
But if he lets Cap get in close, I still think that Spidey would be overwhelmed by superior tactics and skill. 😬.
Meh.
Oh, and for the record Alf; Cap may be the better strategist, the better tactician? But he is CERTAINLY not more intelligent than Pete. Pete's impressed Mr. Fantastic and Pym with his intelligence. Cap is derided by the two, 😛.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont think you can prove that.Cap has taken shots from Powerman who can lift 20 tons , this is a different Powerman.
I dont think Spdiermans webbing can stick to Caps shield, its Vibarnuim and absorbs impact.
He doesnt have to.
Yeah but he can cut the webbing and it doesnt stick to his shield.
Yeah but Cap does not have to follow Spiderman up a wall.
Not by a great deal.
Ok thats fanboyish, we all know Spiderman is smart but everyone knows that Cap is smarter.
In other words hes not as smart as Cap, eventhough Peter is smart.
Dont mean a damn thing. He'll get punched in the face all day by top tier martial artists.
Cap has stuided his style and has learnt an alien martial art in a day. Cap can adapt.
Man, just when I thought you were getting better, too.
1. Cap can take a shot. But more than that? No. With Spidey's speed and reflexes, he could land several blows on Cap before he could react. Several blows will knock him out.
2. Regardless as to whether or not webbing can stick to the shield, Spidey doesn't need to web the shield directly. He could lay out a wave of webbing and completely encase Cap. I just don't understand how you can even argue against this or argue as to what Cap could do in this situation. 😬
3. When Spidey does not want to get hit by a martial artist, he can dodge him all day.
-A trained martial artist (with, apparently, some other enhancements) gets owned. Interesting because his nails (claws) and sharp points on his costume have a poison that can knock Spidey out, so SM can’t even get touched (by the poisonous claws) during this fight or he loses.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/385/18522nh.jpg
4. While Cap is smart, Spidey is smarter. No one is arguing that Spidey is the better tactician, because Cap is the better of the two. However, Spidey is the superior quick thinker, the most resourceful, the quickest thinker on the fly. Just read his comics for proof.
5. Kind of hard to predict moves from an opponent who has created his very own fighting style that only Spidey knows. Plus, the fact that it's COMPLETELY unique in the sense that it follows no set pattern or orthodox like all other martial arts do. It's instinctual and based on his powers, something Cap couldn't even begin to train in.
6. And then, of course, there's the spider-sense. 😬
Originally posted by Metalmanx1. Cap can take a shot. But more than that? No. With Spidey's speed and reflexes, he could land several blows on Cap before he could react. Several blows will knock him out.
3. When Spidey does not want to get hit by a martial artist, he can dodge him all day.
4. While Cap is smart, Spidey is smarter. No one is arguing that Spidey is the better tactician, because Cap is the better of the two. However, Spidey is the superior quick thinker, the most resourceful, the quickest thinker on the fly. Just read his comics for proof.
1. Just like he's done to Cap before...oh wait, no he didn't!
3. True, we all know Parker's desire to get hit by martial artists was the reason he gets hit...he enjoys pain!
4. That's why Parker led the Avengers when he joined...oh wait, no he didn't!
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Man, just when I thought you were getting better, too.1. Cap can take a shot. But more than that? No. With Spidey's speed and reflexes, he could land several blows on Cap before he could react. Several blows will knock him out.
2. Regardless as to whether or not webbing can stick to the shield, Spidey doesn't need to web the shield directly. He could lay out a wave of webbing and completely encase Cap. I just don't understand how you can even argue against this or argue as to what Cap could do in this situation. 😬
3. When Spidey does not want to get hit by a martial artist, he can dodge him all day.
-A trained martial artist (with, apparently, some other enhancements) gets owned. Interesting because his nails (claws) and sharp points on his costume have a poison that can knock Spidey out, so SM can’t even get touched (by the poisonous claws) during this fight or he loses.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/385/18522nh.jpg4. While Cap is smart, Spidey is smarter. No one is arguing that Spidey is the better tactician, because Cap is the better of the two. However, Spidey is the superior quick thinker, the most resourceful, the quickest thinker on the fly. Just read his comics for proof.
5. Kind of hard to predict moves from an opponent who has created his very own fighting style that only Spidey knows. Plus, the fact that it's COMPLETELY unique in the sense that it follows no set pattern or orthodox like all other martial arts do. It's instinctual and based on his powers, something Cap couldn't even begin to train in.
6. And then, of course, there's the spider-sense. 😬
Nicely said
