Originally posted by lovethemtigers
It's like Jack is a Drug for her - she knows she shouldn't want him, but she does. It's so damn sexy the whole theory.....Forbidden Love.
To break the "bad" habit - she will leave him to die.
OMG I know! Its so SOOOO interesting to watch..so much more that Liz will...its so forbidden which makes it all the more tempting to her. She had a taste of the forbidden fruit (selfish act), became dirty and was kicked out of the garden of Eden forever.. ( honorable life to pirate, no turning back now) 😂 trying to quote the bible..
and yeh the post above is a good insight too 🙂
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
OMG - I've just had a new insight based on all these new discussions. I just got through watching the Kiss - LIz's last words to Jack "this is the only way, don't you see." The way they are looking into each other eyes. It's her way of telling him although they both want each other they can never be together because of Will - with you out of the picture neither one of us has to hurt Will - so I'm sacrificing you to the Kraken - because it is after you anyways and Davy Jones will not give up trying to collect his debt - Jack's Soul.
Wow, this is really good insite on this. Great job glad you came up with this because now I know why she said all that at the end 🙂 This is why she chained him because she knew they couldnt be together.
IE: Back to my sunset boulevard comparrison with my essay, this is how us Film studies students know these things.
She chained him up to stop the possibility though didn't she?....if she definitely knew that they could never be together then she wouldn't have felt the need to get rid of the temptation in the first place ..She obviously feels as if she's not strong enough to fight it..so she wants to just take the easy way out and get rid of the possibility before she allowes her self to accept it. Which was the selfish act...the pirates way out of things. Honorable people would try to be brave and fight it..but the pirate takes the easy way out. which is what she did.
I think the "this is the only way dont you see" was liz trying to convince him and herself that it was the only way to get out of it when it really wasn't She could have been brave and let him try and escape too., and the "I'm not sorry" was her trying to convince herself yet again that what she feels for jack is not real..right after she nearly kisses him again she says that..Jack can see that her actions in the scene speak louder than her words..She's saying she means one thing..but her facial expressions and the very act she just committed speaks louder. Its showing him that She really does want him and that she IS a pirate..but she is trying very feebly to fight it with words. Thats why he's smiling..and thats why he basically called her pirate..he can see through you Liz.
^^ thanks
sweet_kat..her knowing that there isn't a chance with him cant be right ..She's in so much denial over what her heart really wants that she felt she had to MAKE there be no chance after she got that big wakeup call (when he came back).. If she knew in her heart that they could never be together then she wouldn't even bother chaining him up....there would be no need.
You can tell that her attempt to "erase the problem" didnt make her feelings for him go away.. ..she still wanted him thats why she was crying..
that whole scene is just so full of emotion. I definetly think she chains him to avoid temptation in the future. Cuz you are right. She cannot resist Jack....He's a drug -he's everything Will's not - her "sexual" pull is toward Jack and that's what frightens her.
Even in the end, honorable Will is asking Elizabeth would you be willing to bring him back if we could - even after having witnessed the kiss. At this point he doesn't know that she chained Jack to the ship. You would think he would be angry and be like "I don't care if that bastard rots in Hell" especially since Jack is the one who sent him to visit Davy Jones' ship. But no, poor old Will is still being honorable.
Even though we know Jack sent Will to the Flying Dutchman - which is really very selfish of him, it is the very thing that makes Jack so sexy, so edgy. Even when we know he's lying through all his gold teeth to Elizabeth (or not actually lying, just not telling the whole truth), we are still like OMG this man is soooo irresistable.
Another note on the Norrington thing - I love the way they added that element to the story. You know he's watching them cuz he's listening to
the whole persuade me conversation when they mention the letters of pardon...That's why he notices Elizabeth is all goo-goo and smiling. He knows she is thinking about Jack - I love that whole exchange. IT's so obvious that Norrington can see right through her and he's amuzed that she cannot realize that her undieing faith in Jack is a sure sign that she really wants him....I love the beach scene when the compass points to Jack and she throws a little tantrum and throws the compass down and says that it doesnt work and it definetly doesn't show what you want most (but we know it does), the look on Norrington's face is priceless, cuz he knows the compass pointed at Jack and he knows she is still not facing the fact that she wants Jack.
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
that whole scene is just so full of emotion. I definetly think she chains him to avoid temptation in the future. Cuz you are right. She cannot resist Jack....He's a drug -he's everything Will's not - her "sexual" pull is toward Jack and that's what frightens her.
Its like when he was finally gone..she was having withdrawl symptoms..he made her feel so alive..and now he's gone. thanks to HER..its going to be interesting to watch her try and go cold turkey in the next movie. 😂
[b]Even in the end, honorable Will is asking Elizabeth would you be willing to bring him back if we could - even after having witnessed the kiss. At this point he doesn't know that she chained Jack to the ship. You would think he would be angry and be like "I don't care if that bastard rots in Hell" especially since Jack is the one who sent him to visit Davy Jones' ship. But no, poor old Will is still being honorable.
To me there is something very..deceiving about Will's constant good nature...Its like no one can be that perfect all the time..you have to crack at some point..Liz already has 😂 *waits for Will to crack* possibly in the 3rd movie.
Even though we know Jack sent Will to the Flying Dutchman - which is really very selfish of him, it is the very thing that makes Jack so sexy, so edgy. Even when we know he's lying through all his gold teeth to Elizabeth (or not actually lying, just not telling the whole truth), we are still like OMG this man is soooo irresistable.
LOL although He keeps lying to Liz. I still dont buy the fact that she is really angry at him for doing it 😂 After All she keeps lying to herself and everyone around her throughout the entire movie lol...its like another thing they have in common. You know she just admires him so much, lies and all..he is the epitome of all pirates to her. He's a lovable scamp. He's a pirate but he's also a good man..and thats what makes him different to her.
Also Back to will and Jack..you can see that the way he behaves around Will in this one bares all the trademarks of someone who is jealous. He may not realise/admit it but he is jealous of Will for having Liz. Its obvious..Smacking Will round the head...repeatedly trying to get rid of him. 😂 Jack wants to be what Liz wants of him..which is what she finds attractive in Will.. he proved to Liz that he did have the goodness in him at the end. This made him all the more suited to Liz's needs (she wants someone who is good..but she also wants to be a pirate=not Will) and I believe this to be the reason for her to "try and erase" the "problem" at the end because that moment where he came back was the one moment where Liz realised that she can get everything she wants from a man in Jack it confirmed it for her...but she still doesn't want to accept it.
[b]Another note on the Norrington thing - I love the way they added that element to the story. You know he's watching them cuz he's listening to
the whole persuade me conversation when they mention the letters of pardon...That's why he notices Elizabeth is all goo-goo and smiling. He knows she is thinking about Jack - I love that whole exchange. IT's so obvious that Norrington can see right through her and he's amuzed that she cannot realize that her undieing faith in Jack is a sure sign that she really wants him....I love the beach scene when the compass points to Jack and she throws a little tantrum and throws the compass down and says that it doesnt work and it definetly doesn't show what you want most (but we know it does), the look on Norrington's face is priceless, cuz he knows the compass pointed at Jack and he knows she is still not facing the fact that she wants Jack.
LOL i KNOW!! I love it!! look:
hey guys, im new at this whole thing but i read a couple of your threads, but they're hard to keep up lol. anyways i agree with you guys 100%. jack and elizabeth will end up together hopefully. there's a lot of clues that point to it. i never even realized them until you guys pointed them out. except ive only seen it once (the day it came out) because my family thinks its a waste of money to see it again. pshh w/e i wanna see it again!! lol. but you guys are good at this stuff. theres alot of good points.
also, where can i read that hat theroy?? im curious now as to what its about
Originally posted by random21
hey guys, im new at this whole thing but i read a couple of your threads, but they're hard to keep up lol. anyways i agree with you guys 100%. jack and elizabeth will end up together hopefully. there's a lot of clues that point to it. i never even realized them until you guys pointed them out. except ive only seen it once (the day it came out) because my family thinks its a waste of money to see it again. pshh w/e i wanna see it again!! lol. but you guys are good at this stuff. theres alot of good points.also, where can i read that hat theroy?? im curious now as to what its about
Hello 🙂 heres my hat theory:
The loss of his hat is significant..and the fact Liz keeps wearing a similar one to him from the moment he first sees her is also significant..her character didn't need that particular hat at all so it could symbolise something else. the hat stands out when she wears it..its meant to catch the audiences eye. In my opinion its no coincidence that Jack's character is missing his hat throughout the movie and Liz's charcter is basically wearing it.its like a puzzle piece thats meant to fit together.
So basically to start with he's loses his beloved hat and it makes him feel incomplete. He wants it back to make him feel complete
The part in Tortuga where he didn't feel right trying on all the hats has a double meaning. Its also the point in the movie where his character is in a great state of confusion over what the compass is telling him he wants..he thinks its saying lots of different things (when its actually pointing to liz) He leaves with no hat..he didn't find the right one.
Then hello hello... Liz turning up looking like him but wearing a hat similar to his missing one symbolises that SHE is the missing part of him.
notice he stops worring about the compass not showing him what he wants, Liz just came and resembled the end to all his troubles, meaning she takes charge of the compass. but she's ALSO the thing he wants..the missing part. double meanings 🙂
At the end after he gets what he wants from Liz strangley enough his hat comes back symbolises that he's finally found the missing part of himeslf "coincidently" when LIZ just came down to his level..his equal.
And before you say "the hat was to hide from the men on the ship", thats not true..she ditches that hat which is made of straw and all of a sudden with no explanation she sports one that looks exactly like Jack's missing one. She has it on as as soon as she meets him and never removes it.
Jacks hat resembles a huge part of his character..its missing..so part of him is missing. Liz turns up looking just like him but wearing his beloved hat..Liz is the missing part of him. Its there throughout th entire movie..she never takes it off until the end..just before Jack gets his back
Is everyone here a film studies major? It certainly seems like it...hehe Good to see that all the film majors are putting their education to good use by over-analyzing our favorite pirate/(pirate) princess.
I have to say, though, LovelyOne's deconstruction of the final kiss scene as a metaphor for sex, complete with the yonic/orgasm imagery, made me laugh. As a humble English/comp lit major, I know what it is to have to over-analyze everything for phallic symbols, climax-driven patterns and sexual imagery in landscape-- and the moment I saw that Kraken's "mouth" and what it spit out, I only thought of one thing. hahahah. I dunno what that says about our higher education system... but nice to know that I'm not the only one strangely seeing all these "clues" in films.
Or who knows, maybe school is frying our brains 😄
Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
Is everyone here a film studies major? It certainly seems like it...hehe Good to see that all the film majors are putting their education to good use by over-analyzing our favorite pirate/(pirate) princess.I have to say, though, LovelyOne's deconstruction of the final kiss scene as a metaphor for sex, complete with the yonic/orgasm imagery, made me laugh. As a humble English/comp lit major, I know what it is to have to over-analyze everything for phallic symbols, climax-driven patterns and sexual imagery in landscape-- and the moment I saw that Kraken's "mouth" and what it spit out, I only thought of one thing. hahahah. I dunno what that says about our higher education system... but nice to know that I'm not the only one strangely seeing all these "clues" in films.
Or who knows, maybe school is frying our brains 😄
LMFAO! it was Disney's way of sneaking a sex scene into a PG13 movie 😂
Its just the fact that its spits out the hat..which means Liz in the movie... that what made me think of that theory 😂
I used to hate having to talk for ages over sexual meanings in movies...and symbolisms..my GOD
^^ Ha, Yea........I agree with the hat theory.......and I do agree it was Disney's way of sneaking a sex scene in a PG-13 movie LOL....
We'll probably find out the rating for the next movie on the trailors on the 2nd movie's DVD.....but if they do have a "real" sex scene in the next movie....it will def. be the classic fade in fade out LOL.
thanks 😄
whoa. that makes sense. and you know the hat was important to him because he makes several comments about it in the first movie like when he threatens elizabeth hes like "Commodore Norrington, my effects, please. And my hat. Commodore." so yeah its important to him and so is elizabeth. sry to change subjects.
anyways i liked how they added how norrington and tia, i think her name is, know that elizabeth wants jack. its pretty funny 😂
haha and im not a flim study person. im only gunna be a freshman =P but i see the clues when you guys point them out.
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
that whole scene is just so full of emotion. I definetly think she chains him to avoid temptation in the future. Cuz you are right. She cannot resist Jack....He's a drug -he's everything Will's not - her "sexual" pull is toward Jack and that's what frightens her.Even in the end, honorable Will is asking Elizabeth would you be willing to bring him back if we could - even after having witnessed the kiss. At this point he doesn't know that she chained Jack to the ship. You would think he would be angry and be like "I don't care if that bastard rots in Hell" especially since Jack is the one who sent him to visit Davy Jones' ship. But no, poor old Will is still being honorable.
Even though we know Jack sent Will to the Flying Dutchman - which is really very selfish of him, it is the very thing that makes Jack so sexy, so edgy. Even when we know he's lying through all his gold teeth to Elizabeth (or not actually lying, just not telling the whole truth), we are still like OMG this man is soooo irresistable.
Another note on the Norrington thing - I love the way they added that element to the story. You know he's watching them cuz he's listening to
the whole persuade me conversation when they mention the letters of pardon...That's why he notices Elizabeth is all goo-goo and smiling. He knows she is thinking about Jack - I love that whole exchange. IT's so obvious that Norrington can see right through her and he's amuzed that she cannot realize that her undieing faith in Jack is a sure sign that she really wants him....I love the beach scene when the compass points to Jack and she throws a little tantrum and throws the compass down and says that it doesnt work and it definetly doesn't show what you want most (but we know it does), the look on Norrington's face is priceless, cuz he knows the compass pointed at Jack and he knows she is still not facing the fact that she wants Jack.
I agree with 100% of this. 🙂 YAY!
I think we should get a Liz/Will swordfight in the next one. Or even a Liz/Jack/Will swordfight or something. that would be HOTT>
I do think Jack really wants Liz. I think a precarious lifestyle is what he has always wanted, but there is a part of the human heart that wants to be known and loved, ya know? I can imagine Jack getting lonely sometimes, not the way other people do, but in his own way. But for him, he doesnt want someone clingy or needy-- he wants someone who is self-reliant, devious, mysterious, and attractive. AKA: Liz.
PS i wonder how many more threads we can start for this topic.. hehehe