Marka Ragnos versus Shimrra

Started by GM Nebaris15 pages

'The point is, that sith magic behaves in a different manner than regular force attacks. Its unknown whether sith magic is even force based or not.'

Proof?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What else would Sith magic be based on if not the force? Magical fairy powers?

No, it's just illogical...

And some things are more possible than others. You just don't know how Marka died

What? Umm, Tom has authority to state if they're above his creations, actually, so does KJA. And
Me: So, did you mean Yoda is above Kun and the ancients
Tom: Yes.

he then gives a reasoning, your point?

Possibly. Sith magic is inconsistent with all other force abilities we know of.

All the possibilities you suggested are ridiculous and you know it. All evidence and common sense, again, points towards Ragnos dieing of natural causes.

No he doesnt. TV isnt the creator of Sidious or Yoda, and he doesnt have the authority to make statements about them.

LS... your opinion about ancient sith is now worthshitshitshitshitshitshit

How? It's the dark side, still...

Sure, it'd be logical that Ragnos died of natural causes, but it doesn't prove it.

Well, Tom is an EU eomplyee and he created DE Sidious, as well as had a hand in Kun and the Ancients, so when it comes to measuring power, he can say his co-creations are weaker

Originally posted by Darth Pwnage
LS... your opinion about ancient sith is now worthshitshitshitshitshitshit
Lightsnake you are full of shitshit

The man is insulting himself...this is sad

Sorryl ightsnake but you don't know anything about TV created, and he certainly did not have a hand in creating the GAOTS. And you haven't proved that Ragnos got assassinated or anything else, and since there's no mention of it, and I forgot where it says Ragnos died of old age, he must have.

I have to get off, we can continue this later if you want.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The man is insulting himself...this is sad
you are so desperate you are making stuff up nowshutup

That's because no source says Ragnos died of old age....and the Golden Age was first dreamed up in Tom's comics...Freedon Nadd Uprising and Dark Lords of the Sith anyone?

Except you can't mention exactly what was dreamt up by Tom Veitch, while I can tell you who wrote GAOTS and created all the characters.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, something Ragnos is incapable of sensing, let alone affecting? And given that most Jedi have been hit by the projectiles, which are so small and fast that most force users don't even SEE them and given how fast Vong can toss things...

Lmao, Lightsnake. Slowly you're going over the edge with your Anti-Ragnos-Bias. Jedi and Sith do have very basical foresight (as Qui-Gon explained in TPM) which makes them look like possessing inhuman reflexes. So I'd like to see somebody throwing something at a force user and hit him.
And "projectiles" ? You aren't talking about blaster bolts which are charged gas travelling with speed of light ? You need some very huge muscles to throw something with that speed.


Of course Luke was tired. And how do shapers come close to matching force based boosts? Considring many elite Vong have been able to match Jedi in tests of skill and speed...Shedao Shai vs. Corran anyone?

Oh my. Did Corran win ? Yes...I think that was the case. And taking Corran as example is great because his force abilities were quite limited aside of energy manipulation and creating illusions with a special lack on telikinetic abilities.


When's Sith alchemy produced armor that can resist sabers? Alright, let's add that to small projectiles Ragnos can't even SEE, let alone sense or react to...and where's Sith alchemy 'cut through basically anything?'

As a great fan of Sidious you should probably know that Bane's armor infused with Dark Side energy was durable enough to withstand lightsaber hits. And of course Ancient Sith would most likely design armor that can at least offer some protection against Sith swords which are shown to cut through massive stone walls like butter.


Oh, and great assumption that Ragnos is going to hurl himself in force boosted right off the bat. In the time it takes to run in, Shimrra could easily lob a plasma grenade his way

Oh yes. Nice assumption that Shimrra would exactly do this, too. Doube-standarts much ? I'd like to know why the Supreme Overlord who commonly uses his Sceptre of Power only will suddenly rely on other weapons.


and unless Ragnos knows how to sense Vong-unlikely given that Dark Siders are beyond the Unifying Force abilitoes, Ragnosis going to have to deal with Shimrra on even ground

Yeah. Because Ragnos isn't able to see Shimrra because he can't sense the Supreme Overlord through the force...


and given that Shimrra's strength is tip top of a race whose POLITICIANS are twice as powerful as a full grown, healthy human...and speed?

I'd like to see some Vong lifting a huge size gun on his back like Yoda did. Then you can come back and talk with me about "strength" again.


An average Vong subaltern was able to flick several daggers out of the air, thrown by a noghri-one of the top assassin races in the galaxy- cover the distance to the Noghri, sweep his legs out and impaled him...before the daggers had hit the round.

I always was under the impression that the "average Vong subaltern" who did this was their Warmaster Tsavong Lah. Of course it's been some time since I read the NJO series for the last time. Still I'd like to see how this trumps some displays of force speed we've seen...


And gee, considering while Ragnos stops to concentrate, I'd love to see Ragnos take a razor bug in the face. What would happen? Gee, I'll go with the guy wearing nearly totally impenetrable vonduum crab armor that has managed to withstand bladed weapons and sabers. Why not

Yes. Ragnos will stop to concentrate because he can f*** up the entire place with his sceptre alone aside of the fact that every ass-backward force user can use force attacks during lightsaber duels.


How about more likely Ragnos panics when he finds out all his godly force powers don't mean a thing to Shimrra and takes a plasma eel full in the face when he tries to stop it with the force and can't? Seems just as likely.

Yes. A warrior which battle prowess is enough to make some of the top Jedi / Sith of Revan's era "look like children" will totally panic when being confronted with a new situation...more bullshit you want to throw in here ?


Or that Shimrra is able to at least match him with skill and power.

Yes. Despite the fact that Ragnos is a physical monster himself and we've seen people pushing their physical strength to impossible levels with the force Shimrra will surely win a strength contest. And then Shimrra just has to learn how to move faster then a blaster bolt to keep up with Ragnos possible speed. Really convincing arguments you have there...

Originally posted by Borbarad
Lmao, Lightsnake. Slowly you're going over the edge with your Anti-Ragnos-Bias. Jedi and Sith do have very basical foresight (as Qui-Gon explained in TPM) which makes them look like possessing inhuman reflexes. So I'd like to see somebody throwing something at a force user and hit him.
And "projectiles" ? You aren't talking about blaster bolts which are charged gas travelling with speed of light ? You need some very huge muscles to throw something with that speed.

Oh my. Did Corran win ? Yes...I think that was the case. And taking Corran as example is great because his force abilities were quite limited aside of energy manipulation and creating illusions with a special lack on telikinetic abilities.

As a great fan of Sidious you should probably know that Bane's armor infused with Dark Side energy was durable enough to withstand lightsaber hits. And of course Ancient Sith would most likely design armor that can at least offer some protection against Sith swords which are shown to cut through massive stone walls like butter.

Oh yes. Nice assumption that Shimrra would exactly do this, too. Doube-standarts much ? I'd like to know why the Supreme Overlord who commonly uses his Sceptre of Power only will suddenly rely on other weapons.

Yeah. Because Ragnos isn't able to see Shimrra because he can't sense the Supreme Overlord through the force...

I'd like to see some Vong lifting a huge size gun on his back like Yoda did. Then you can come back and talk with me about "strength" again.

I always was under the impression that the "average Vong subaltern" who did this was their Warmaster Tsavong Lah. Of course it's been some time since I read the NJO series for the last time. Still I'd like to see how this trumps some displays of force speed we've seen...

Yes. Ragnos will stop to concentrate because he can f*** up the entire place with his sceptre alone aside of the fact that every ass-backward force user can use force attacks during lightsaber duels.

Yes. A warrior which battle prowess is enough to make some of the top Jedi / Sith of Revan's era "look like children" will totally panic when being confronted with a new situation...more bullshit you want to throw in here ?

Yes. Despite the fact that Ragnos is a physical monster himself and we've seen people pushing their physical strength to impossible levels with the force Shimrra will surely win a strength contest. And then Shimrra just has to learn how to move faster then a blaster bolt to keep up with Ragnos possible speed. Really convincing arguments you have there...

there are two things i hate most on KMC...LS and ANTEDILLUVIANS

Good, so go away.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Good, so go away.
Nothing can defeat the unstoppable might of the FLOOD... Kill one of us 20 more come back... Learn your lesson Antedilluvians are nearly extinct for a Reason ....THE FLOOD IS UNBEATABLE AND UNSTOPPABLE....HERE COMES FLOOD

Originally posted by Borbarad
Lmao, Lightsnake. Slowly you're going over the edge with your Anti-Ragnos-Bias. Jedi and Sith do have very basical foresight (as Qui-Gon explained in TPM) which makes them look like possessing inhuman reflexes. So I'd like to see somebody throwing something at a force user and hit him.
And "projectiles" ? You aren't talking about blaster bolts which are charged gas travelling with speed of light ? You need some very huge muscles to throw something with that speed.

Oh my. Did Corran win ? Yes...I think that was the case. And taking Corran as example is great because his force abilities were quite limited aside of energy manipulation and creating illusions with a special lack on telikinetic abilities.

As a great fan of Sidious you should probably know that Bane's armor infused with Dark Side energy was durable enough to withstand lightsaber hits. And of course Ancient Sith would most likely design armor that can at least offer some protection against Sith swords which are shown to cut through massive stone walls like butter.

Oh yes. Nice assumption that Shimrra would exactly do this, too. Doube-standarts much ? I'd like to know why the Supreme Overlord who commonly uses his Sceptre of Power only will suddenly rely on other weapons.

Yeah. Because Ragnos isn't able to see Shimrra because he can't sense the Supreme Overlord through the force...

I'd like to see some Vong lifting a huge size gun on his back like Yoda did. Then you can come back and talk with me about "strength" again.

I always was under the impression that the "average Vong subaltern" who did this was their Warmaster Tsavong Lah. Of course it's been some time since I read the NJO series for the last time. Still I'd like to see how this trumps some displays of force speed we've seen...

Yes. Ragnos will stop to concentrate because he can f*** up the entire place with his sceptre alone aside of the fact that every ass-backward force user can use force attacks during lightsaber duels.

Yes. A warrior which battle prowess is enough to make some of the top Jedi / Sith of Revan's era "look like children" will totally panic when being confronted with a new situation...more bullshit you want to throw in here ?

Yes. Despite the fact that Ragnos is a physical monster himself and we've seen people pushing their physical strength to impossible levels with the force Shimrra will surely win a strength contest. And then Shimrra just has to learn how to move faster then a blaster bolt to keep up with Ragnos possible speed. Really convincing arguments you have there...

Well said

Nai, you know I'm advocating Shimrra'll lose...I'm just saying it'll hardly be a total bloodbath...I'm rather sure Bane's armor was resistant because of the orbalisks...and when it came to Vong, there wasn't foresight...Jaina mentions that when fighting the Ssi-Ruuk, And Mara when fighting Yomin, and Jacen when fighting Tsavong...he got a slight tingle of 'danger sense' and noted how unusual it was. Also, I'm not convinced Marka's pure physical strength whill hold against Shimrra's...and I think we know Yoda's force enhanced strength is better than just about anyone's now. I don't see ANYONE replicating that. Ever. Maybe Luke but that's it.

And Corran beat Shedao by pulling a highly unorthodox move that Marka wouldn't be able to.

why do we assume Ragnos would go for destroying the arena? Isn't that just as detrimental to himself if he goes off with the scepter? And Ragnos's species favors mano a mano combat...they prefer sith swords because they like to feel themselves destroying their opponent..
And Marka's is a race that has relied on the Dark Side completely for the entire duration of their history. Remember Kreia talking about how most force users are when they lost that advantage?

Except Ragnos was an EXCEPTIONAL champion Warrior, so his strength doesn't lie in the dark side alone.


Sadow: What is so important you couldn't let us solve it?!

Bullshit snake, you are arguing with the fact that despite the fact they bowed down and STFU'ed up when Ragnos appeared, that they were not afraid of him.


Prove he was unchallenged...really this should be such a simple concept

This is getting ridiculous. If they were NOT frightened by Ragnos, then he would NOT have ruled for over a century iron fisted. They would have simply dispelled his ghost (as Exar Kun did with Freedon Nadd), when he appeared.

Oh wait, they were not afraid of him, so they behaved like his lap dog, when he appears. 🙄

In a civilization run by hatred and fear, this makes absolutely no sense.

If Ragnos were able to inspire obediance from a being that could develop techniques channeling highly volatile darkside blasts and able to destroy stars, what do you think that speaks for his own strength?

Oh lets not forget Jedi Academy Luke, you know the same one that was stated to move as a blur of light energy, feared Ragnos' return, believing it would take the entire academy to have a hope of stopping him.

My entire purpose behind this is you seem to dismiss Ragnos' abilities in the force. Do you think if Ragnos is reputed for all this, then he would not be able to dodge a couple of Shimrra's attacks set up an indirect barrier, or use the force indirectly to detain Shimrra?

Which means WHAT exactly? Their dialogue makes it clear they've never seena ghost. Worship on Ludo's part, uncertainty on Sadow's? Oh, and there's the tiny detail Sadow basically tells him to **** off

Oh, yeah, looootta fear... did they know they could dispel ghosts? Seems like Ragnos is the only one they'd ever seen...and lotta fear when Ludo says "Master, I fought in your name!"
Lotta fear when Ludo gives him the battle helm at the funeral.
Lotta fear when Ludo chastises

How do you explain the Sith moruning Simus's death?
"They killed old Simus!"
"They are monsters!"
"Simus...I remember when he lost his battle with Marka Ragnos...but he never gave up, he never failed us...he always offered his wisdom. He was the noblest of us all!"

....they afraid of Simus, too?

Oh, and bullshit. Luke said Ragnos's powers were unknown...and they going to stop Ragnos from being ressurected. Luke also said it'd take the entire academy to stop Brakiss and Hethrir, your point?