Marka Ragnos versus Shimrra

OH, right...mmhmm. Once again, this's been done before. And possibly because Simus had time to set it up before he died. Like Dathka Graush.

If his head was severed from his body, in combat against Marka Ragnos, the fact that he could survive after his disembodied state clearly indicates he is stronger than Vader, Dooku, Maul, and several other DLOTS.

Explain why the three afore mentioned Sith Lords, as well as several other great sith lords did not replicate this feat if it were as easy as you say. I am waiting, yet you have never given me a reply.

No one claimed the comic wasn't canon. There's no contradiction. Your interpretation is wrong and the canon says what happened. so end of story.

His arms and eyes were glowing red with energy, afterwards, ligthning erupted outward towards the star. The only purpose of the ship it seems was to bring him near to the star.

You claim that it is my opinion yet it has been shown in another comic with Sadow moving his hands and immediately a star blowing up.

Prove barriers exist

WTF?! I just told you that Ragnos could raise it from the earth... reading comprehension my friend.

Oh, right...you mean I was just talking to TV about power, I ask him how Yoda stacks up and he says Yoda is definitely on top, two sources call Palpatine the strongest sith in history by ROTS (DE sbk and NEC_ You have,...what exactly? When asked who the STORNGEST Sith Lord is, KJA said Palpatine and Exar would have to fight....hmmm

KJA explicitly stated that Palpatine was NOT the strongest by ROTS, which you seemed to assert he was. Again, why should I believe your claims that Ragnos was not as strong as he is considered, despite the overwhelming evidence supporting he was (Sadow destroying a star, and also devising techniques to channel volatile blasts of energy)

Y'know, prove to me NOW that love was alien to the ancients. Ragnos was described as being admired, Simus clearly cared for Naga and Ludo WORSHIPPED Ragnos.

It is fear. Sweet Jebus, why would a race that worshiped hatred resort to love for figures that held power. Let me guess, Palpatine loved Plageuis as well. It seems to make sense with your logic.

Simus's first concern after a big attack? "Naga Sadow, old friend! Are you hurt?"

And tell me how this statement even remotely refers to love? I recall Palpatine calling Vader "my friend" on multiple occasions. Also when Anakin was burning to death, Palpatine went through the effort recover his body. Did he love him? HELLS NO.

The Sith MOURN Simus's death, did you miss that?

Maybe you miss how Ludo, when having no reason to be fearful of Marka when he's DEAD respects and honors him,

Yet at one point you stated Ludo loved him, and now you state it was respect. Kressh respected Ragnos because he was afraid of him.

furiously rebuking Naga for defiling his memory...

Yawn. Kressh, like always, wants to point blame on Sadow.

or how the Sith race worshipped and loved King Adas...

They respected him for his power, not love. I reccomend you start from block one if you can't understand the simple fact that Sith DESPISE love.

Gimmie a break, fear? Prove it was fear. Now.

I detect ignorance in this life form. Hmmm, I have repeated it a hundred times but you still do not wish to listen I see. They both stop what they are doing, they STFU, and listen to what Ragnos has to say. They bow down in fear:

Neither of them were willing to kill Ragnos at a time where such things were common (Ragnos killed Simus)

And when Ragnos is gone, Sadow basically says he WON'T listen to him, Wow, THAT'S fear, especially when Naga pretty much tells
Marka to go away and let them fight.

Wow, now that is a lie if I ever heard one. He asks why Ragnos has appeared, and then he bows. He never tells Ragnos to go away.

Ragnos tells them to "fight the proper battles." That is interpreted by Sadow in different way than kressh. When does he tell Ragnos to go away?

And when'd I say Ludo was driven by love? I just said he worshipped, admired and loved MArka and NOTHING shows he was scared of Marka. Everytime he mentions Marka, it's with admiration.

If he admired and feared Ragnos, then it proves my point that he was afraid of battling him. This the Sith we are talking about, you know the same belief where strong overcomes wea 🙄

"Great Marka Ragnos, wear this helmet during your battles in the afterlife!"
Yep, real fearful.

He was observing the proper burial rites so that he could build enough repute to become the new grand DLOTS. It states that he wants to become DLOTS.

"You'd destroy everything Marka Ragnos built! YOU SHAME HIS MEMORY!"

This is getting ridiculous lightsnake. You are not accounting for the fact that Kressh was a conservative Sith who was by the book. If he had a chance to point blame at Sadow, he WOULD have.

Oh, I only have evidence, author opinions and official sources on my side...as opposed to the king of conjecture.

Right, how about you bring all the authors here instead of giving your biased interpretations on what they say. I have supplied proof given from the actual comics whereas you state vaguely "Well the authors said this... trust me"

Lesse, we give Shimrra yammosk tech through Onimi's mentality, he'll see through force illusions.

Name an instance where the Vong see through actual sith magic made illusions.

Marka'll create them in the middle of a fight how? How would a barrier affect vong weapons that go through solid stone? Thud and razor bugs?

A being feared and respected by two powerful INCREDIBLY powerful Dark Lords, would not be able to create a big enough barrier... Again, your logic never ceases to astound me Snake.

OH, right...which is why Sadow needs concentration. Sadow;s illusions aren;t real, they're just illusions.

WTF? The illusions are meant to serve as distractions if that is what you mean... They don't really attack...

Notice how they vanish?
Sadow's clearly saying he's able to manifest what he sees as illusions...remember? A massive bulk of the fleet was composed of illusions.

Once again I ask, WTF? I don't see where you are going with this.

That's fascinating. real as in tanginble can kill people real or 'real as in people can see them real?'
Aleema's illusions are described as real too and has no tangible effect in the real world, big deal!
And if they're 'real', they shouldn't need Sadow's mental control...unless they're just illusions that can't affect the real world as Sadow just created them to give the appearance of his army being bigger than it was.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's fascinating. real as in tanginble can kill people real or 'real as in people can see them real?'
Aleema's illusions are described as real too and has no tangible effect in the real world, big deal!
And if they're 'real', they shouldn't need Sadow's mental control...unless they're just illusions that can't affect the real world as Sadow just created them to give the appearance of his army being bigger than it was.

They are tangible, and can affect people in the real world. Where is it stated that Aleema's illusions are real? You lie so much that its hard to take anything you say for granted. And do I have to say again, that Sadow himself said his illusions are real? And do you really think that the mass slaughter on coruscant was the product of a few troops cloaked in a mass of non-tangible illusions?

Oh, give me a break...Why is it that the illusions vanish then? I recall Aleema's 'real' snakes crushing people...
And what 'mass slaughter?' You're gonna have to back this up! Because all Naga is saying is that he can manifest what he sees! As, y'know, illusions!
Proof they're tangible? Oh, that's right! THEY'RE DESCRIBED AS ILLUSIONS! which IN ITSELF, shoots your ****ing argument to hell.

If they were real, they wouldn't vanish. If they were real, the Jedi wouldn't realize the Sith fleet was much smaller than they thought. The Chronology says they were just images to give the impression Sadow's army was bolstered.

Lying? No. You're just clinging to a pathetic argument and you've been ripped to shreds. Leave the Ancient Sith worship to people who're better at it than you.

Find me one instance of an illusion killing someone. Now

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, give me a break...Why is it that the illusions vanish then? I recall Aleema's 'real' snakes crushing people...
And what 'mass slaughter?' You're gonna have to back this up! Because all Naga is saying is that he can manifest what he sees! As, y'know, illusions!
Proof they're tangible? Oh, that's right! THEY'RE DESCRIBED AS ILLUSIONS! which IN ITSELF, shoots your ****ing argument to hell.

If they were real, they wouldn't vanish. If they were real, the Jedi wouldn't realize the Sith fleet was much smaller than they thought. The Chronology says they were just images to give the impression Sadow's army was bolstered.

Lying? No. You're just clinging to a pathetic argument and you've been ripped to shreds. Leave the Ancient Sith worship to people who're better at it than you.

Find me one instance of an illusion killing someone. Now

This army is mostly non-tangible, right LS?

You have a point here? Many of the ships were illusions, too. We see some fading when Sadow's concentration is broken.

And I'm sure the people are noticing which ones spawn how many troops and which ones stir up dust

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You have a point here? Many of the ships were illusions, too. We see some fading when Sadow's concentration is broken.

And I'm sure the people are noticing which ones spawn how many troops and which ones stir up dust

Give me a break, do we ever see any troops that are fighting, but have no tangible affect?

Do you remember what happened with Aleema's illusions? The mind tricked the soldiers...most went into catatonic shock from being 'strangled'

And I'm really sure, with probably enough real Massassi in the front, the Coruscant forces had time to figure it out

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Do you remember what happened with Aleema's illusions? The mind tricked the soldiers...most went into catatonic shock from being 'strangled'

And I'm really sure, with probably enough real Massassi in the front, the Coruscant forces had time to figure it out

They never figure it out, until Sadows concentration is broken and the illusions actually start disappearing. On the battlefield, for all intents and purposes, they were real. And it would be the same situation if Ragnos was fighting Shimmra.

They were real for all intents and purposes when Aleema used them, too, big deal.

Prove Ragnos can and would use them. Nothing a plasma eel wouldn't deal with. Let alone be dispelled with a yammosk

Oh, and for the record: I don't believe Shimrra'd beat Marka. He'd have a better chance than a lot of people are saying, though.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
They were real for all intents and purposes when Aleema used them, too, big deal.

Prove Ragnos can and would use them. Nothing a plasma eel wouldn't deal with. Let alone be dispelled with a yammosk

Firstly, *where* is your proof that Yammosk would be capable of dispelling illusions. And then, where would he get a Yammosk exactly? That isnt part of the default settings of this fight.

A plasma eel can be defended against using the force, this has been covered to death already.

And this is getting absurd. Even if we ignore what Sadow himself said about his illusions being real, and dismiss the use of illusions, Ragnos has so many other ways to defeat Shimmra. Ragnos can use the force, something which Shimmra cannot do. Indirect force attacks could toss around Shimmra all day. Especially coming from a force user of Ragnos' league. Earth would be ripped from right under Shimmras' feet. Ragnos also has his sceptor. What is to stop Shimmra from getting his flesh burned right off his bones?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, and for the record: I don't believe Shimrra'd beat Marka. He'd have a better chance than a lot of people are saying, though.

Then why are you wasting all of our time?

Where? It's only stated in the books and in the guide to species when Yammosks are mentioned! They see right through just about anyting force sensitive.

And plasma eels can be defended? Hah. Vong technology can't be affected with the force.

'Indirect force attacks?' we're assuming impacts are gonna affect Ragnos? And proof the scepter'd work on Shimrra? Force based attacks DO NOT WORK.

Why do we assume Marka's incapable of being surprised and caught off guard?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where? It's only stated in the books and in the guide to species when Yammosks are mentioned! They see right through just about anyting force sensitive.

And plasma eels can be defended? Hah. Vong technology can't be affected with the force.

'Indirect force attacks?' we're assuming impacts are gonna affect Ragnos? And proof the scepter'd work on Shimrra? Force based attacks DO NOT WORK.

Why do we assume Marka's incapable of being surprised and caught off guard?

'They see through just about anything force sensitive' doesnt = Yammosks can destroy illusions. And again I ask...where does Shimmra get a Yammosk?

I meant with indirect force attacks. A plasma eel could be stopped by making use of the enviroment.

Impact Ragnos...what the hell are you talking about? And the sceptor is powered by sith magic, and releases raw energy similar to laser fire, so its not really a force attack per se.

What does this have to do with anything? 😐

Wow after reading all of that crap, Lightsnake please stay out of threads dealing with the ancient sith. It is obvious that your knowledge on them is very limited and/or evident that you dislike them and you like to make shit up, and offer no valid arguments on the matter whatsoever. GV and zephiel both provided good arguments so if you can't accept it just stay away.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow after reading all of that crap, Lightsnake please stay out of threads dealing with the ancient sith. It is obvious that your knowledge on them is very limited and/or evident that you dislike them and you like to make shit up, and offer no valid arguments on the matter whatsoever. GV and zephiel both provided good arguments so if you can't accept it just stay away.

I know Lightsnake dislikes the ancients which is why I pointed it out. Nothing personal against him, everyone here has disdain for something.

What do you think of my argument

If Marka can bring in his scepter and amulets, why is Shimrra not allowed a yammosk? And technically his brain is part Yammosk thank to Onimi.

Marka's scepter releases stored up force energy...I've never seen it proven that it's a 'blast of raw energy' rather than force power which wouldn't affect Shimrra...and HOW is Marka gonna stop a plasma eel?

And Sexy, just shut up. STILL waiting for a source that says Marka died of old age. And wow, Pwnage, your arguments really suck. all you posted is relevant, how? Considering, according to KJA and Tom Veitch, Kun and Palp>The Ancients and Yoda>The Ancients and Exar, and according to the Dark side sourcebook and NEC, Palpatine>The Ancients, too...Oh, and Ragnos, AFTER getting a boost from his scepter was beaten by Jaden Korr, some Sith Lord....bnack up your bullshit, idiot: Where was it said there were no challengers? Where was it said he was uncontested? Oooh, an empire full of weaklings ruled by someone with base power, wow!

Hm, what's this telling you?