Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda? Mace? The Jedi who didn't devote themselves to the dioplomats' form? The Jedi who had 'spent years training themselves to refight the last war?' Sorr,y, three EU sources call the PT times the 'strongest'...what does strength mean? Right, could it be you know nothing of what you're trying to say? The PT era faced numerous fights...and by the way: A fully trained TOTJ Jedi was killes by three bandits, IMPRESSIVE! Oh, and the Order never fell? Jedi civil War, pal, nearly tore the Order apart...they refused to gof ight the Mandos...in fact, KTOOR even called them complacent!
Aside from Yoda, who is equal to Kun or possibly better, you have Windu, Dooku, and Anakin. And again lightsnake sorry to break it to you but the TOTJ era was a MUCH more martial time than PT, up until at LEAST the very end of AOTC, so your point is nonexistent. And again you fail to differentiate between "prime of the jedi" as a whole, and "every PT Jedi is greater than every TOTJ Jedi". Lets see what other stupidity you included. Omgz 1 TOTJ JEdi was killed by three bandits, oh no! Random PT Jedi were killed by blaster fire, one was killed by 1 storm trooper shooting his plane down, with your ridiculous logic that makes them weak too? Please, stop embarassing yourself. And lets see what KOTOR calling the Jedi Order complacent has anything to do with anything. Oh wait, you conveniently forgot that there were how many members on the council? 20? How many Jedi went to fight with Revan and Malak? Thousands.. Thank you for playing, come again.
Oh, and the Jedi never faced Freedon Nad.d..and the Jedi of the PT faced just as many conflicts in a shorte space of time. The Clone Wars were described as by LUCAS HIMSELF as one of the most dire conflicts the galaxy had ever seen...so the PT Jedi generations had seen...how many conflicts? More than the TOTJ Jedi.
Sorry, but your lack of logic and knowledge does you in, Exanda...learn about the PT conflicts...Stark Hyperspace war, Yinchorri, Kibh Jeen, Jensaari, Set Harth, Volfe Karkko, Nikkos Tyrris, Alana, the Ngihtisisters.
Gee, one of the MOST dire conflicts.. Does that mean the most? Not even close, so your interpretations make anybody with common sense laugh. And sorry lightsnake, during TOTJ there was the uprising, the Mandalorian War, the Sith War, and the Jedi Civil War, which completely destroys your argument about the PT Jedi having more conflicts. So before you start talking about lack of logic, make sure you don't look like a complete fool whose arguments are always destroyed.
And so aside from begging random authors for quotes, misinterpretating quotes, and complaining, you don't really have much debating skills do you?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I suggest YOU stop and just stop arguing.You cannot debate. You just insult, repeat and ignore. Those are your holy grail. Just enough, okay? Neither me, Nai nor Sama can stand you.
Considering I CAN debate, I have PROVEN to debate, you HAVENT, Nai and Sama have no problem with me, I'd say this is just about the end of the line for you. Now if I want some angry social outcast making shit up to make himself feel better, I'll go to the local high school and pick a fight. You may stop crying now child.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda? Mace? The Jedi who didn't devote themselves to the dioplomats' form? The Jedi who had 'spent years training themselves to refight the last war?' Sorr,y, three EU sources call the PT times the 'strongest'...what does strength mean? Right, could it be you know nothing of what you're trying to say? The PT era faced numerous fights...and by the way: A fully trained TOTJ Jedi was killes by three bandits, IMPRESSIVE! Oh, and the Order never fell? Jedi civil War, pal, nearly tore the Order apart...they refused to gof ight the Mandos...in fact, KTOOR even called them complacent!Oh, and the Jedi never faced Freedon Nad.d..and the Jedi of the PT faced just as many conflicts in a shorte space of time. The Clone Wars were described as by LUCAS HIMSELF as one of the most dire conflicts the galaxy had ever seen...so the PT Jedi generations had seen...how many conflicts? More than the TOTJ Jedi.
Sorry, but your lack of logic and knowledge does you in, Exanda...learn about the PT conflicts...Stark Hyperspace war, Yinchorri, Kibh Jeen, Jensaari, Set Harth, Volfe Karkko, Nikkos Tyrris, Alana, the Ngihtisisters.Sorry, but three sources take you down on the issue, so your opinion means nothing
and sorry, but Lucas saif 'Of the Jedi' and the EU's clarified, or did you ignore that part? Of COURSE you did, it'd hurt your argument!
Read the sources, learn about what you're trying to talk about.
You're wrong. the AOTC and ROTs novelizations and the Power of the Jedi sourcebooks says the Jedi were the strongest during the PT, the best lightsaber duelists the Jedi order had produced lived during the PT times.
Too bad, EU sources state this. They're canon, it means.
And thus, canon>You
Stop trying to feel attacked kid. You are wrong but I don't think you know it. You saying I know nothing of what I am talking about? That's just wrong. If I wanted or had the time to go into the details, I would, but I really do not have the incentive too.
The PT era faced little more than an over confident pirate before the Clone Wars, and by that time, there was already little hope left for the Jedi. The stark hyperspace war? It was a bloody skirmish! Nightsisters? Big deal. Jensaari were a walkover. The PT Jedi almost failed at menial tasks.
They'd become too complacent, they fell from the highest place they could be, when there teachings were strongest and most potent. By the time the Clone Wars arrived, Jedi were little more than negotiators, which believe it nor not kid, was one of the goals of a Jedi, to avoid conflict. Now for this very reason among others, the years before the clone wars are named the prime of the Jedi.
Lets remove the science fiction part of this point ok, I fear the sugar may be causing your little out pour of angst already, lets remove it to say..the golden age of Rome? Totally with your permission of course...
Well Rome had grown a little complacent, its Empire had stopped expanding, its arts were the pride of its culture that stretched from Britain to the Middle East, one of the earliest forms of alphabet began to be taught to more than just the upper classes (I'd like you to link this to the jedi teachings if you can). Things had grown complacent. Rome fell from the inside. The pressures of omnious disturbences on the borders of the Empire provoked doubt at the heart of the Empire. Rome did infact collapse at the peak of its culture, when all the possible energy within the Empire had been used to the fullest.
Does that sound familiar? Of course it doesn't to you because you aren't listening.
The Jedi Civil War did not kill the Jedi, nor did the time in which sects of assasins hunted the Order through the force, both events wiped out alot of Jedi, but at leats a hundred jedi still lived with Revans "reformation" and and the Jedi Council survived for a good amount of time before the Exile appeared. When the Jedi Order was kept on its toes it survived, when it grew complacent, during its golden age, it fell hard. These are facts you cannot ignore, without hiding behind some drab book with a b-movie plot.
I'm sorry Lightsnake but if you cannot concede any points whatsoever when talking about a damn science fiction saga then I really feel for you kid
Prove it. I can think of five conflicts within two DECADES as compared to tOTJ...as Nai said: did you see any fully trained knights getting punked by THREE BANDITS? How was it more martial, I'm curious? And how many Jedi were in the clone Wars? Ten thousand? Thanks. Oh, and Jedi in the PT in Order 66? They were caught totally off guard. Y'know as opposed to a Jedi facing them with his saber ready for them-Hi, Andur! Twenty council members? Sorry, I saw four on Dantooine. And council members mean anything now? Number wise?
The PT era was STILL stronger as a whole.
And yeah, one of the most dire conflicts...drew in the entire galaxy. More than you can say for the Great Sith War. Or the Mandalorian War.The Mandalorian war was fought on the outskirts.
Oh, and the PT Jedi haaad....Kibh Jeen, Volfe Karkko, the Bpfasshi uprising, the Clone Wars, the Ynchorri, Stark Hyperspace, The Jensaari, numerous assaults around the galaxy, including Annoo, the Mandalorian uprising...not to mention the Sith throughout the centuries as Dooku said.
Sorry, but it looks like this just takes the TOTJ Jedi's conflicts down a notch.
ROTs novelization even says the Jedi were well trained as fighters as a whole but spent too much time training to fight the Last War.
More martial era? Then how did the Jedi Civil War catch them totally off guard? Oh, and if you want to use the Great Hyperspace War, I can safetly use Ruusan and the Light and Darkness war...AKA: The culmination of a thousand years of warfare.
Originally posted by LightsnakeOh, and the PT Jedi haaad....Kibh Jeen, Volfe Karkko, the Bpfasshi uprising, the Clone Wars, the Ynchorri, Stark Hyperspace, The Jensaari, numerous assaults around the galaxy, including Annoo, the Mandalorian uprising...not to mention the Sith throughout the centuries as Dooku said.
S
I'm totally sorry there kid, but that point is simply void. Consdering the amount actually published about the Prequel era compared to the times of Exar Kun, that is only an average amount of conflicts, and even these wars were only small compared to earlier conflicts. Keep it to the movies and the material George Lucas actually touches.
Sorry, Exanda, but...you're a liar:
The Jedi faced a Mandalorian uprising, three Dark Jedi uprisings, the Yinchorri, Stark Hyperspace wars, the uprising of Annoo, Kibh Jeen AND Set Harth...Volfe Karkko required four council members to best centuries past. Oh, and the Morgukai, can't forget the Morgukai.
Mace Windu had killed 'countless evil beings', Yoda's triumphs against the Dark were 'legion'
Three canon sources call the PT the STRONGEST time
Sorry, Exanda, but you went down. Hard. Canon> You and the canon is those books. And that sourcebook. Lucas, too, sorry!
When you can argue with canon, come back. Sorry, but those 'drab books' are canon...in fact, as novelizations? More canon than KOTOR...nice try, attacking the actual source like that. Sorry, but they're called the strongest, when the mightiest Jedi and some of the best duelists the order had produced lived.
Youw ere saying, Exanda? Something humorous I think.
And Sexy? Go on: Ask Nai and Sama how they feel about you. What'd Nai say about you when you two argued in the Kun vs. Yoda thread? Go on, ask them.
Your debating is a joke, mate. You insult, repeat things ad nauseum and use nothing but ad hominem fallacies. It's rritating and it's gotten old. You just try to discredit the source and it's gotten really old. You're incapable of backing yourself up.
Oh, look at this now, Exanda! Getting all defensive when your BS about there being so few conflicts is shot to hell?
Ok, guess there were never any conflicts in the PT era...Lucas never touched those. And those conflicts were described as massive and costly, thanks!
And Exar Kun's spectacular war of a series of terrorist attacks was brilliant, wasn't it? Prove up.
In fact, I'll prove up now: AOTC and ROTS novelizations. There go your arguments
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sorry, Exanda, but...you're a liar:
The Jedi faced a Mandalorian uprising, three Dark Jedi uprisings, the Yinchorri, Stark Hyperspace wars, the uprising of Annoo, Kibh Jeen AND Set Harth...Volfe Karkko required four council members to best centuries past. Oh, and the Morgukai, can't forget the Morgukai.Mace Windu had killed 'countless evil beings', Yoda's triumphs against the Dark were 'legion'
Three canon sources call the PT the STRONGEST time
Sorry, Exanda, but you went down. Hard. Canon> You and the canon is those books. And that sourcebook. Lucas, too, sorry!
When you can argue with canon, come back. Sorry, but those 'drab books' are canon...in fact, as novelizations? More canon than KOTOR...nice try, attacking the actual source like that. Sorry, but they're called the strongest, when the mightiest Jedi and some of the best duelists the order had produced lived.
Youw ere saying, Exanda? Something humorous I think.
And Sexy? Go on: Ask Nai and Sama how they feel about you. What'd Nai say about you when you two argued in the Kun vs. Yoda thread? Go on, ask them.
Your debating is a joke, mate. You insult, repeat things ad nauseum and use nothing but ad hominem fallacies. It's rritating and it's gotten old. You just try to discredit the source and it's gotten really old. You're incapable of backing yourself up.
Lightsnake, youre an idiot. I'm not an infallible debator but it doesn't take much to shut you up or destroy your arguments. I've backed myself up plenty of times, while all you do is ***** and cry and live in denial. "No thats not true I don't believe it". And the simple fact that you have to try and convince yourself that somebody hates me as a result of debating on a star wars forum, you are a bigger moron than I thought. I don't have to ask Nai and Sama, because I know at the end of the day we are all cool. But as an immature and unintelligent child, I see why you try so hard to make yourself feel better.
Try me Lightsnake.
Common Sense > Canon.
That's a rule that we must all follow. That allows us to enjoy the saga much more and not take the daft view Lucas takes.
You really have no points whatsoever kid. nothing, and nothing to fall back on.
Now may I remind you that alot, and I mean alot of the material that is suddenly burned at Skywalker ranch because its not canon goes against the actual fans of the saga.
This may seem like a shock to you, but people power really is the deciding factor here. If I see Yoda beat Vodo Baas in a duel then I'll believe it, until then Baas beats the majorit yof PT duellist easily. But because Lucas makes an utterly irrelevant and idiot statement about his movies, and somehow thats canon because an LA CEO wants to get home quickly to see his kids, and rushes his workload. If I want to be treated as a kid, I'll believe canon. If I just want to look at Star Wars as some kind of western manga in CGI, I'll read canon. If I want an unintellectual debate with some kid who can't punctuate his sentense; I'll read canon.
You've heard what I have to say, and I'm glad the majority of people realise I have a good point concerning Lucas' words, but I will not lower myself to try and comprimise with you any longer, especially when you insists on believing a 3" green OAP can beat Exan Kun in a duel.
It's funny...any time I actually try to be civil with you, you keep this crap up.
No, DS, you ignore anything thrown at you.
Here's a debate for you: Three canon sources say something in definites. End. Of. Story.
Al you did was describe how you act in debates. want to remind us of how Nai took you apart in the Kun vs. Yoda debate? He was 'cool' with you? By the standards of which he insults someone maybe.
If putting someone down on a message board makes you feel better, go right ahead. I'm finished with you. I will no longer respond to your posts or acknowledge you here. As far as I'm concerned, you're an insignificant brat who gets off riling people up.
I have bigger concerns than you, DS. You're just not important enough anymore.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, look at this now, Exanda! Getting all defensive when your BS about there being so few conflicts is shot to hell?Ok, guess there were never any conflicts in the PT era...Lucas never touched those. And those conflicts were described as massive and costly, thanks!
And Exar Kun's spectacular war of a series of terrorist attacks was brilliant, wasn't it? Prove up.
In fact, I'll prove up now: AOTC and ROTS novelizations. There go your arguments
What have you proved, oh wait nothing? You're an idiot and I will call you an idiot until you stop being an idiot. It was called "The Sith War", because it was a war. Your poor attempts to discredit pure facts with your own ridiculous opinions because you don't like TOTJ, is classic. And what exactly did you prove? Oh here are the novelizations therefore I win. Lightsnake maybe you should stop acting like an unintelligent 17 year old child in complete and utter denial, and start trying to form cogent arguments.
Common sense tells me there's no noise in space, Exanda. I'm sorry, but canon> All and that canon is definite.
You know something Exanda? The canon ACTUALLY STATES Yoda>all other Jedi by the time of ROTS.
You're claiming the canon doesn't matter to you? The very laws of Star Wars? Go on then, back Baas up, fanboy. Oh, and how's Exar gonna win against the guy described as the strongest Jedi master who's lived? The man with legions of triumphs against the dark Side? Who's faster, more agile and the best Jedi duelist in the golden age of saber fighting?
Canon> You, exanda. Get it? Noone gives a damn what you believe. Noone cares what you THINK. The canon is what decides star wars. They've shown Yoda as far exceeding vodo-carries a gun the size of a house on his back. They've shown Yoda being a supreme duelist and you know something REALLY amusing? The man who CREATED Vodo put Yoda above him in regards to yoda vs. Kun and the Ancients, that's the really umorous thing.
A delusion is a belief contrary to overwhelming evidence against it with proof of it being a falsehood. That's what you're suffering.
I'm glad you just revealed yourself as knowing absolutely nothing about Star Wars, Exanda.
I have three canon sources and unfortunately for you, that canon decides everything. The canon is: Yoda>Vodo.
Deal. With. It
Kid, you dont know what your talking about.
Your first mistake is that you've turned a nice little discussion thread into turmoil with blunt insults and an ability somewhat remniscent of the Exiles in terms of sucking the intelligence out of all others, instead of the Force.
Your second mistake is assuming people care what a little canon fanboy has to say, and that no-one, absolutedly no one gives a rats arse what I say.
Third, I am not a fanboy, I wish I had time to learn more about Star Wars, so I see this from an outsiders perspective if you will. This allows me the insight that you will never understand what I see in Star Wars, taking anything publishes by LA as your bible. You will not see Empire Strikes Back as a masterpiece of subtle film making, you will never get the key concepts which underline the very characters of Star Wars. Do you even know what binary oppositions are?
Fourth point, you, personally, dont have any opinion of Star Wars whatsoever, do you actually enjoy it? It seems from my privlieged perspective (if you will) that you don't, who knows, you might not even have seen the films. You don't seem to have any other interpretation of it other than what Lucas tells you.
Fifth point, and a rather emotive one on my behalf is how you can see there on your computer literally acting as a lawyer for LA, telling people how Lucas thinks it is and you dont seem to understand that there is a world outside of Star Wars, yet one inextricably linked to it.