Best Street Levelers Collide!!!

Started by Soljer13 pages
Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
No, see now that's not fair. Drakon only has ONE appearence, and that was beating Connor. That's why nobody puts anomolies like Drakon as one of the top characters in terms of martial arts. I believe one of the characters in DC has a list of the greatest martial artists on earth. Funny that Drakon didn't appear on that list.

Your point? He is an unknown. Doesn't mean that he didn't school Connor. If Drakon ever has another appearance, and he goes down to black canary, or tim drake, or something. Fine, cool, then you have an argument.

Till then? Constantine is superior to Connor. And Connor is DAMN good.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by Soljer
Your point? He is an unknown. Doesn't mean that he didn't school Connor. If Drakon ever has another appearance, and he goes down to black canary, or tim drake, or something. Fine, cool, then you have an argument.

Till then? Constantine is superior to Connor. And Connor is DAMN good.

Why do you think he's disappeared forever out of DC's continuity? DC realized they made a mistake and they cut him loose.

Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
Why do you think he's disappeared forever out of DC's continuity? DC realized they made a mistake and they cut him loose.

Let them present a retcon, then. Have they yet? ❌

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber
Originally posted by Soljer
Let them present a retcon, then. Have they yet? ❌

Well, let me put it to you this way:

Batman's beaten Shiva and Shiva's beaten Hawke. 😄 Besides, Hawke HIMSELF doesn't have very many showings putting him up near the top.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

"Years later, however, the martial artist assassin Constantine Drakon would show himself to be Connor's clear superior in this regard, even while the hero was armed and he was not. This led to speculation that either Drakon was a metahuman (a theory which has not been established as canon) or else that Connor was no longer among the best fighers in the DC Universe. The following year, however, Connor's martial arts standing was reestablished in the short-lived Richard Dragon series. Although the most realistic explanation for these inconsistencies is simply that different authors approach the character differently, there are real life examples of otherwise exceptional martial artists being particularly weak against certain styles."

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by batdude123
Well, let me put it to you this way:

Batman's beaten Shiva and Shiva's beaten Hawke. 😄 Besides, Hawke HIMSELF doesn't have very many showings putting him up near the top.

I still miss your point. I was merely pointing out that Constantine is superior to Hawke, who is well respected all around.

It's like limit comparison tests. if A is greater than B, and C is also greater than B, it says NOTHING about A and C's relation.

By your logic, Batman is far superior to Connor. Constantine is ALSO far superior to Connor. Who is better out of Constantine and Connor? We don't have enough evidence to say.

As to your second post: you are merely trying to post a complex explanation to something which, actually, has a MUCH simpler one. Drakon is simply that good.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber
Originally posted by Soljer
We don't have enough evidence to say.

Thank you. jockey

Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
Thank you. jockey

🙄

I was talking about Batman's and Drakon's relation, and you know that.

Saying that we don't know who is better between Drakon and Bruce, still puts Drakon on a PRETTY ****ING HIGH pedestal.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber
Originally posted by Soljer
As to your second post: you are merely trying to post a complex explanation to something which, actually, has a MUCH simpler one. Drakon is simply that good.

No, actually it's pretty funny how even in a bio that they point out mistakes in the writing.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by Soljer
🙄

I was talking about Batman's and Drakon's relation, and you know that.

Saying that we don't know who is better between Drakon and Bruce, still puts Drakon on a PRETTY ****ING HIGH pedestal.

Nothing we've seen from him apart from that ONE-TIME feat puts him up to Bruce's level who consistently takes on Shiva and the like.

Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
Nothing we've seen from him apart from that ONE-TIME feat puts him up to Bruce's level who consistently takes on Shiva and the like.

Have we seen anything to put him on any other level? No.

If there was this ONE time feat that puts him on Bruce's level, coupled with many others that put him below? Okay, he is probably below.

If there is this one time feat that puts him on Bruce's level, and NOTHING else?

Then, well, he's probably on Bruce's level.

Nataku8188 KMC Tyrant

Normal GA, after 52, is now at least on Nightwing's level, more likely somewhere in Bruce's area, seeing as he threw down in a fight with Deathstroke and was winning.

He's more than just a brawler now.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by Soljer
Have we seen anything to put him on any other level? No.

If there was this ONE time feat that puts him on Bruce's level, coupled with many others that put him below? Okay, he is probably below.

If there is this one time feat that puts him on Bruce's level, and NOTHING else?

Then, well, he's probably on Bruce's level.

Okay, that's flawed logic because it's too inconsistent with that. Superman has pwned skyfather level beings. Let's say he doesn't have any other showings but that. Does that mean Superman is skyfather level or ABOVE??? Don't think so. This is exactly why he isn't placed amongst the best. It's too inconclusive.

Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
Okay, that's flawed logic because it's too inconsistent with that. Superman has pwned skyfather level beings. Let's say he doesn't have any other showings but that. Does that mean Superman is skyfather level or ABOVE??? Don't think so. This is exactly why he isn't placed amongst the best. It's too inconclusive.

What? If superman had NO showings besides kicking the shit out of skyfathers, then yes, I would consider him skyfather.

If the majority of available feats for a character place him in a certain realm, then he belongs there.

If Superman had no showings but beating Skyfathers, he'd be around skyfather.

If Drakon had no showings but beating a GREAT martial artist...he'd be around a "great martial artist."

How is that flawed logic?

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by Soljer
What? If superman had NO showings besides kicking the shit out of skyfathers, then yes, I would consider him skyfather.

If the majority of available feats for a character place him in a certain realm, then he belongs there.

If Superman had no showings but beating Skyfathers, he'd be around skyfather.

If Drakon had no showings but beating a GREAT martial artist...he'd be around a "great martial artist."

How is that flawed logic?

Because you can't accurately place a person in a specific level with just one showing to their name.

Soljer Beware my Power
Originally posted by batdude123
Because you can't accurately place a person in a specific level with just one showing to their name.

If you have NOTHING else to go by....then, sure you can.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber
Originally posted by Soljer
If you have NOTHING else to go by....then, sure you can.

Not really. Too inconclusive. You need more than just one showing. You cannot be accurately place ANYWHERE with just one showing. That's why I don't believe you can seriously put him umongst Batman/Shiva/CASSANDRA/DRAGON who consistently kick ass on that level. It's just Sentry imo. But enough. Back to the fight. herbnana

riceroost Senior Member

Originally posted by celestialdemon
That's because Spider Man and Black Panther are going to be so damn hard to hit.
Spidey is going to be a lot easier to hit now that he has no Spider-Sense.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine gets owned by Batgirl
BS.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Without a healing factor/claws yes Batgirl would beat Wolverine.
BS. Without adamantium or claws Wolverine pawned Shang-Chi. Batgirl is dead.

Originally posted by Skeets
Wolverine's not beating cass with those handicaps.Take his Healing Factor and Wolverine's a nobody.
Wrong. He is considered the most dangerous man on the planet and that's before he had a good healing factor, or claws, or adamantium.

Originally posted by Skeets
Yet he gets beat by Deadpool with ease once you take his Healing Factor away.
Wrong. Deadpool would be dead even quicker if he didn't have a healing factor. Deadpool only wins if Wolverine's healing factor isn't working and his is.

Originally posted by rotiart
Wolverine is not known for dodging..
Oh you know, except for those hundreds of times he's dodged bullets, lazers, arrows, etc. You also seem to forget that Wolverine can flat out catch arrows out of thin air and throw them back at their targets at a comparable speed.
In Wolverine Origins # 5 Wolverine dodges about 15 straight optic blasts from Cyclops. Green Arrow aint hitting anything.

Originally posted by joesha28
Logan best asset is his healing factor it has seen him thru in fights that he's abt to lose.
Yeah, when he's fighting the Hulk, not a bunch of street level guys.

Originally posted by joesha28
Exactly. Wolverine is good, u know fighting ninjas and all kind of martial artist but if you notice he takes hits alot but thanks to his HF he beats back hard at them. W/O HF he does not have the leiture to take hits like he did in the past. And the guys from DC throws hits alot.
If he knew he didn't have a healing factor he'd change how he fights...OBVIOUSLY.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Batgirl is possibly the most skilled fighter in comics
Yet she is still getting hit by Tim Drake.🙄
Originally posted by Grimm22
Current Wolverine relies far to much on his healing factor and claws. He would get pretty much owned without them
So just because he uses his powers means he no longer has his established fighting skills???
Originally posted by Grimm22
Classic Wolverine would have a better chance as he actually tried not to get hurt because he actually felt pain back then
So Wolverine has forgotten how to fight now that his healing factor is stronger? Yeah, that makes sense. 🙄

Originally posted by batdude123
Nope, Batman actually shows skill when he fights. Captain America throws generic kicks and punches and gets praise for it. Captain would only get the majority over Batman because of the super soldier serum.
The best fighters in the world throw generic punches and kicks. The guys that throw high heel hook kicks and jump spinning crecent kicks are usually the ones on the ground getting pounded.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Next up is Wolverine. He'd charge in recklessly, as per usual, and get his shit stomped. Without his powers he's like oldschool Azrael, who Nightwing went toe to toe with. If he decides to fight smart, he's still going to get picked out next, probably by Deathstroke, who does a 10-step on his face.
Wrong. You act like you've never seen Wolverine fight before. Wolverine does not always charge into the fight. W/o a healing factor he's not going to charge in like a moron. Wolverine can be just as strategic as Batman or Panther is he wants to be. Take Wolverine # 126. A claw-less, adamantium-less Wolverine takes out an army of Hydra and the Hand by himself. His planning was so flawless they NEVER got a clear look at him. He had them convinced they were under attack by the combined forces of the FF, the X-Men, and the Avengers. Not bad for a stupid berserker.

He's also pawned Shang-Chi, as if I haven't said it enough, so you are very wrong here.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Current Ollie can hang with Deathstroke. 'Nuff Said.
Current Ollie hung with DS through trickery, prep, and a swat team back-up, not through fighting prowess. He simply changed his fighting style, he didn't get better.

Originally posted by A.J
Is there anyone you think Logan can lose to 🙄
Not street level martial artists, No.

Originally posted by Soljer
Didn't batman stalemate her, using only one hand for the majority of the fight, and holding back quite a bit?
Absolutely true.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I replaced Spidey with Deadpool, like you said. Team Marvel wins. Just barely.
I fail to see how Deadpool would really swing things. Now Marvel has a second Wolverine, just with less fighting ability and less experience.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Please dont give me that dumpster crap 🙄
The dumster feat is easily a valid feat you crybaby. The forum does not cater to your depiction of Wolverine, one that has baseline human strength.
Originally posted by Grimm22
Batgirl's Skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolverine's Skills
Yet BG's senses can't top Bats when he's holding back? Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
3) Wolverine vs Nightwing - Wolverine is a bit slower, less agile, a bit stronger, much more durable, a better threshold for pain, more experience. I could see this really going either way. Wolverine has some good martial prowess feats, but he's not always the best at executing them. Realisticly, I can see Nightwing having the upperhand, but Wolverine has a good puncher's chance.

1) Wolverine is WAY faster than Nightwing. Your entire argument is shot to holes because you dont know that SIMPLE fact. Wolverine can move faster than human eyes can follow. This has been stated over and over. Wolverine dodges optic blasts in Origins like it's childs play.
2) Wolverine is more agile than Nightwing for the same reason he is faster. It's part of his power set. His entire physical ability set is enhanced and at the very least peak human level. Nightwing is a HUMAN.
3) Wolverine's martial arts feats are more impressive than Dick's.
4) Wolverine is not a PUNCHER. Why the hell would you give him that kind of label. He took out 3 magistrates with only his feet. His hands were manacled. His fighting style utilizes every type of attack that there is. In recent issues of Wolverine he's been going nuts with the elbows. In his first fight with Warpath he beat the crap out of him with knee strikes, and Wolverine has always loved the headbutt, so your point is further wrong as you classify him as only a good "puncher".

Originally posted by King KAM
Cap can take anyone on the DC squad so they should probably give him batgirl since shes the biggest threat.
Yet Wolverine took out Cap hand 2 hand so Wolverine should still get the biggest DC threat.

Alfheim Junior Member
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I've never said fights can't include both. But the three terms are three distinct situations. CIS is character induced, it's the way characters are always written, Absorbing Man is an idiot, as is Rhino, or the character is written to know their strength and hold back - Superman always holds back thus Kara Zor-El bet him when he was doing so - that can arguably also be PIS. PIS is when a writer deliberately lowers an opponents abilities in a fight to make both characters near equal despite the stronger characters other showings to advance the plot - the important points here are writer lowered and advance the plot. SvFL is when characters perform single feats which occur rarely if ever again.

I agree with everything you said except the first sentence. I dont really have a problem with PIS and all that, its just you were giving me a hard time when you are not perfect yourself.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by riceroost

Wrong. He is considered the most dangerous man on the planet and that's before he had a good healing factor, or claws, or adamantium.

This is when I stop taking Wolverine supporters seriously... he's able to be pwned 10x over by most of the Xmen (without PIS), but he's "the most dangerous man on the planet and has a danger scale on par with Iron Man and behind Hulk?

Get real.