Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're equivocating. The character telekinetically repelled things away from him. Hulk physically forced his way through this external repulsion.That has pretty much nothing to do with speed stealing.
It wasnt working on a physical level then. If you can physically repel the structure of reality you are going beyond kinetic.
Originally posted by JuntaiI told him he thinks to much about things too it's true don't try to make sense of all this it doesn't apply to the real world most of the time.
Luckily, Flash running at light speeds and beyond gains infinite mass, and punching him would be a transference of that kinetic energy, back into the previously motionless molocules.You're thinking too hard, comic books don't have physics like you describe. Flash's speedforce is also the bane of most laws of motion and physics. "How does that happen?" "Speedforce." "Come come?" "Speedforce."
Originally posted by xmarksthespotWhich is more about Hulk's strenth momentarily going beyond the other characters ability to tk push.
You're equivocating. The character telekinetically repelled things away from him. Hulk physically forced his way through this external repulsion.That has pretty much nothing to do with speed stealing.
Not even close to the same as the avatar of all motion stealing your kinetic energy.
Originally posted by AlfheimIt was telekinetically based repulsion. Huc strong, Huc force his way through. You're extrapolating and equivocating this to being resistant to "reality" whatever that means, and then somehow equating that to a resistance to all that "reality" entails. Which is ridiculous.
It wasnt working on a physical level then. If you can physically repel the structure of reality you are going beyond kinetic.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Not only that the Hulk has resisted being shrunk, being turned into stone, phasing and actually physically hold and redirect energy.Hulks body works on a metaphysical level, hell the guy can even see astral forms
However, none of this means anything when Hulk can't hit Flash, even if we don't consider him running around attacks altogether, he can vibrate his molocules and become intangible. And/or invisible.
He literally has the ability to control the entire tempo of the fight because of his speed. He can land hits whenever he wants, and Hulk can't hit if Flash doesn't slow down. And Flash has proven he can hit as hard as pretty much any of the big hitters. I showed scans of him punching a Superman-type character into orbit a few posts ago.
Originally posted by Juntai
Luckily, Flash running at light speeds and beyond gains infinite mass, and punching him would be a transference of that kinetic energy, back into the previously motionless molocules.You're thinking too hard, comic books don't have physics like you describe. Flash's speedforce is also the bane of most laws of motion and physics. "How does that happen?" "Speedforce." "Come come?" "Speedforce."
hmmm I do see your point Juntai...
But, actually a lot of comics DO take science and molecular properties to account...at least better and more so than some other badly written ones.
The time/space factor is vital to a believable story....even in comics. Obviously it has to be bent to display these characters who have incredible super powers, but at the same time it needs to at least be thought through.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It was telekinetically based repulsion. Huc strong, Huc force his way through. You're extrapolating and equivocating this to being resistant to "reality" whatever that means, and then somehow equating that to a resistance to all that "reality" entails. Which is ridiculous.
So in order to repel the structure of reality it involves just working on a phyiscal level?
Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing Superman hasn't accomplished in his days either, even the seeing astral part, since Superman has proven he can see souls.
Thats irrelevant and you missed my point entirely. *shrug*
Originally posted by Juntai
However, none of this means anything when Hulk can't hit Flash, even if we don't consider him running around attacks altogether, he can vibrate his molocules and become intangible. And/or invisible.
You do know that Hulk has dealt with intangible beings before and resisted phasing? You do know that Hulk can see invisible beings and see through illusions?
Originally posted by Juntai
He literally has the ability to control the entire tempo of the fight because of his speed. He can land hits whenever he wants, and Hulk can't hit if Flash doesn't slow down. And Flash has proven he can hit as hard as pretty much any of the big hitters. I showed scans of him punching a Superman-type character into orbit a few posts ago.
Well ok that doesnt mean its going to be cakewalk does it? Savage Hulk has pawned Superman level characters. Hell I would not even be suprised if that Superman level character was less powerful than Savage Hulk. Current Superman is a beast but Savage Hulk a weaker version has had feats that trump Superman (smashing a meterote twice the size of earth).
As for the speed this is why I think he cope, a weaker Savage hulk has had no problems in dealing with supersonic speed attacks its not illogical to think that WWH could deal with lightspeed evidence for this is that he fought Sentry who charged at him at top speed and Hulk had no problem hitting him.
Originally posted by AlfheimIf I telekinetically repel matter, energy and spacetime physically, I repel the "structure of reality." If someone were to break my telekinetic hold by overexerting me, they would break through whatever repulsion I was projecting. It would be nice to actually see what this character did in general and to Hulk on panel though anyway, rather than just extrapolations and equivocation. Everything in that bio simply implies he forces things away from him. Hulk is a body of matter, logically if I try to telekinetically repel him I'll exert telekinetic force against that body of matter.
So in order to repel the structure of reality it involves just working on a phyiscal level?
Originally posted by AlfheimNo not really, like with the example of a black hole which warps time and space which at the basic level is reality and your example is the opposite of a black hole. Where one pulls in the other pushes out and each uses a physical force which the Hulk could resist. The Speed Force is altering the very nature of the Hulks atomic structure and removing one of the properties, not repelling or attracting.
It wasnt working on a physical level then. If you can physically repel the structure of reality you are going beyond kinetic.
The Flash's speed stealing is usually added to the story with bad explanation on how it works. Whats the range? How Close does Flash need to be to his target? How long can he keep these effects up?
When Flash steals kinetic energy from someone to speed himself up beyond his own capabilities, there should be counter effects such as depleting his own endurance at a faster rate for instance....as he is basically going beyond/extending his limits.
Speedstealing should actually exhaust/wear him out faster than normal anything at best, cause him to age unnaturally at worst.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If I telekinetically repel matter, energy and spacetime physically, I repel the "structure of reality." If someone were to break my telekinetic hold by overexerting me, they would break through whatever repulsion I was projecting. It would be nice to actually see what this character did in general and to Hulk on panel though anyway, rather than just extrapolations and equivocation. Everything in that bio simply implies he forces things away from him.
Well it did say he repeled the structure of reality itself didnt it?
Hell it even says this:
Vector was once shown to be able to block and repel the attempts of various superheroes and friends of the Hulk to locate Gamma Base, including the MAGIC of Doctor Strange and the tracking technology of Iron Man and Reed Richards.
😐
I told you the scans dont work.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
With the logic being used then the Reality Gem should have no effect on the Hulk and he would trump the Infinity Gems.
Obvoulsy it depends on the power of the user.
Vector was once shown to be able to block and repel the attempts of various superheroes and friends of the Hulk to locate Gamma Base, including the MAGIC of Doctor Strange and the tracking technology of Iron Man and Reed Richards.
Vector has the power to even repel magic.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'll call and raise. With the illogic being used nothing should have an effect on Hulk and he should trump the Infinity Gauntlet. 313
Which is exactly what I said.
Hell look at this
http://www.marveldirectory.com/groupsandteams/ufoes.htm
Possessing Banners intellect, the Hulk outwitted and overpowered the U-Foes. Taken into custody, they escaped some time later, but were forced out of sync with Earth by Vector's powers and found themselves at the Crossroads dimension,
Are we done now?
Originally posted by Juntai
Funny how Alfhiem believes Runner would stomp Superman with no feats in or out of combat to prove it, but Flash who is proven to be faster and have more variety in his power than Runner, can be smashed by Hulk.Pst.
Your bias is showing.
Why dont you actually read my posts instead of just arguing? LOL you cant single me out for thinking that Runner can beat Superman lots of people do.
I never even said that Hulk wins I just dont think that hes as outclassed as you think. I already explained why he can take speed, invisiblit and intangability. *shrug*
I understand the logic behind Flash stealing speed etc, its just badly explained to the reader.
Ok, Hulk's basically a walking force of speed(to a lesser degree) and unlimited strength....But as far as energy is concerned, Hulk is literally just as insane at producing limitless kinetic energy.
To turn someone like Hulk into a "statue" by speed stealing it would take far more energy on Flash's part than it would for him to do it to other beings.
The Hulk's gamma fueled cellular activity is said to be fed by an interdimensional and endless gamma source. Check.
Lets say that Hulk's energies are fed from what we could consider the Strength force.
This source of power feeds his own speeds, strength and durabilty and is said to be as unlimited as the speed force itself.
Hulks source is kicking out unstable and kinetic energies at an insane level. Flash is trying to do 2 things:
1. move and speeds fast enough to avoid Hulk.
2. drain all kinetic energy from Hulk himself.
1 should eventually wear Flash out or at best stalemate Hulk.
2 should not be possible based on the unlimited source of Hulk's kinetic energies.
3. Even if it is possible to completely drain some of Hulk's kinetic energies...For obvious reasons I say its impossible to drain an unlimited source. Flash would burn out trying.
