gorgon vs cap america

Originally posted by jinzin
against the hulk?

depends.. hulk's healing factor is crazy fast... the only time cap scored pressure points was against a calm hulk who wasn't paying cap any attention... the hulk that fights logan is always an angry one.... so pressure points are going to be all but useless..

So pressure points dont work when you're angry, nonsense. The whole reason you learn pressure points is to disable an opponent with relative ease. Whats going to do more damage on a pressure point a fist or an adamantium blade? Hes never done anything like that and all of a sudden hes slashing Cap on the leg.

Originally posted by jinzin

that said we don't know that wolverine ISN'T going for pressure points (there's plenty of evidence to suggest he is, as he strikes a lot at the base of hulk's skull)

Base of the skull....what you mean the chin. 😆
Speculation

Originally posted by jinzin

but wolverine's claw strikes to hulks face would be more effective than any pressure points... considering their almost not effective at all at times.. well.....

Well we dont even know if he has used pressure points and you're saying it doesnt work.

Originally posted by jinzin

which is wrong... the one time he fought dd while he was in his right mind he put dd in a full nelson in 3 panels...

Thats should not happen within 3 panels.

Originally posted by jinzin

the one time he fought cap in his right mind cap had to use multiple tricks and sneak attacks just to stay competetive.

Ok that could happen.

Originally posted by jinzin

not necessarily... why would he do it if it doesn't suit his style? now.. we know that wolverine can dodge bullets if he wants to, however there's farrrrrr more instances of him letting himself be shot than dodging, why? cause dodging is a waste of time to him.. he's recognized that he doesn't need to be concerned about certain things cause of his healing factor and admantium... like when he told kitty to buckle up in the x-jet and she asked him why he didn't. "cause I can heal from a plane crash you can't."

Will even when he is not using bullets there is hardly any flipping. We can assume that he is not that good at it.

Originally posted by marvelprince

And to an earlier post where it was mentioned how did Wolverine know where to slash Steve to imbolize him, well the anser is that its all part of Wolverine's covert ops training. He's been shown in the past (granted not often) to a master at things like that. Disarming bombs, knowledge of anatomy and physiology are things Wolverine has done.

Ok fair enough. I think there was one time when he injured Phoenix, but he did it in such a way that she would not die.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So pressure points dont work when you're angry, nonsense.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The whole reason you learn pressure points is to disable an opponent with relative ease.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whats going to do more damage on a pressure point a fist or an adamantium blade?

against the hulk? AGAIN.... the blades....

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hes never done anything like that and all of a sudden hes slashing Cap on the leg

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Base of the skull....what you mean the chin. 😆
Speculation

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well we dont even know if he has used pressure points and you're saying it doesnt work.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats should not happen within 3 panels.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Will even when he is not using bullets there is hardly any flipping. We can assume that he is not that good at it.

no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?

Originally posted by jinzin
no its' not.. this isn't about me, it's about the hulk.... pressure points don't work on HIM when angry.. why? cause hulk gets harder to hurt when he gets angry.. look at it like this... grey hulk got COMPLETELY ran through by wolverine.... I mean wolverine's entire fist went into hulks body.... as hulk got angrier his gamma cells were reprodusing faster, wolverine's cuts were doing lets damage, causing less blood, and soon barely any damage at all, and that was grey hulk.... again.. wolverine almost ALWAYS has to fight a pissed off hulk, pressure points don't do much to a guy who has the healing consitution of liquid skin.

WOOOOWWWWW really? 🙄

against the hulk? AGAIN.... the blades....

bull, he's preformed surgery on at least 2 occasions off the top of my head, when he was working for shield he sized everyone up by their vitals, he's used chin na on ninjas before, he tought kitty pride the pressure points and weak spots of a human nervous system...

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.

i know it is, ut your whole argument about wolveirne not being able to preform up to par like what we're talking about is speculation... I mean hell, when he was in the habitat and all his powers were removed, he took on all the super villain prisoners there using fighting skill alone.

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.

it ususally doesn't.. you can't use hulk as a decent comparison.. not like how you're attempting to at the moment.

why not? wolverine's had more training than daredevil. more experience. he's a metahuman and dd isn't... wolverine USED TO BE PEAK HUMAN and then theweapon x project upgraded him x3 (weapon x novel).
there's no reason a guy who can punk shang chi out in 4 panels without trying would have major issues with a person like daredevil.

no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?

Ugh! I think ive been owned. Maybe I'll try and reply tommorrow but I dont think I can. *walks out of the thread in disgust and slams the door behind him*

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ugh! I think ive been owned. Maybe I'll try and reply tommorrow but I dont think I can. *walks out of the thread in disgust and slams the door behind him*

Nah im cool. In a way its a complement because it seems you destroyed all of my points. I'll have a better look tomorrow but I dont think I'll have much to add.

Originally posted by jinzin
no its' not.. this isn't about me, it's about the hulk.... pressure points don't work on HIM when angry.. why? cause hulk gets harder to hurt when he gets angry.. look at it like this... grey hulk got COMPLETELY ran through by wolverine.... I mean wolverine's entire fist went into hulks body.... as hulk got angrier his gamma cells were reprodusing faster, wolverine's cuts were doing lets damage, causing less blood, and soon barely any damage at all, and that was grey hulk.... again.. wolverine almost ALWAYS has to fight a pissed off hulk, pressure points don't do much to a guy who has the healing consitution of liquid skin.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by jinzin

bull, he's preformed surgery on at least 2 occasions off the top of my head, when he was working for shield he sized everyone up by their vitals, he's used chin na on ninjas before, he tought kitty pride the pressure points and weak spots of a human nervous system...

*mumble* Fair enough

Originally posted by jinzin

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.

OK I guess so......

Originally posted by jinzin

i know it is, ut your whole argument about wolveirne not being able to preform up to par like what we're talking about is speculation... I mean hell, when he was in the habitat and all his powers were removed, he took on all the super villain prisoners there using fighting skill alone.

Well its like this. I used to have the Marvel RPG game and it stated that Wolive was one level below Cap in fighting and agility, also he was one level below DD in agility. I think that was pretty accurate and I think I have seen similar stats in other sources. When Wolverine had that graveyard fight what happened was realistic, Wolverine did not touch him once, the only time he got to touch him was when Spiderman let him. Cap and DD can connect with Spiderman lots of times which proves that they are faster and better fighters than Wolverine, but all of a sudden he is putting DD in a nelson in 3 panels and doing Cap with a slice on the leg. If he has been upgraded fine, but only because he has got upgraded.

Originally posted by jinzin

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.

Please tell me he was upgraded.

Originally posted by jinzin

it ususally doesn't.. you can't use hulk as a decent comparison.. not like how you're attempting to at the moment.

I think I might have to agree with you.

Originally posted by jinzin

why not? wolverine's had more training than daredevil. more experience. he's a metahuman and dd isn't... wolverine USED TO BE PEAK HUMAN and then theweapon x project upgraded him x3 (weapon x novel).
there's no reason a guy who can punk shang chi out in 4 panels without trying would have major issues with a person like daredevil.

If he has been upgraded fine, but apart from that this is how a fight between Cap or DD should be....Wolvie trys to slice them, but they dodge and dodge until they get tired...and then he finally gets them....not getting put in a full nelson in 3 panels what a load of ****

Originally posted by jinzin

no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?

Yes I know he can be fast and be a good fighter but his agility used to be 4 and the fight between him and spidey was realistic. Im only giving allowance for upgrades.

He's getting on my nerves hes getting upgraded and punking people he should not....and now he's regnerating from a skeleton please somebody down grade him!

so gorgon tear a new hole in cap????
no more points?????
(ok i admit it, its just a bump 😛 )

Gorgon beat the sh*t outta wolvie. Wolvie can beat cap, dunno if he can do it easily. I reckon Gorgon takes it.

Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast ✅

Does Gorgon have his sword in this?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well its like this. I used to have the Marvel RPG game and it stated that Wolive was one level below Cap in fighting and agility,

Originally posted by Alfheim
also he was one level below DD in agility.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I think that was pretty accurate

Originally posted by Alfheim
and I think I have seen similar stats in other sources.

Originally posted by Alfheim
When Wolverine had that graveyard fight what happened was realistic, Wolverine did not touch him once, the only time he got to touch him was when Spiderman let him.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap and DD can connect with Spiderman lots of times which proves that they are faster and better fighters than Wolverine,

Originally posted by Alfheim
but all of a sudden he is putting DD in a nelson in 3 panels and doing Cap with a slice on the leg.

Originally posted by Alfheim
If he has been upgraded fine, but only because he has got upgraded.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast ✅

what the hell are you on

in a non PIS fight capt is totaly screwed. PIS means no fighting out side your abilities.

gorgon has superhuman speed,strength,agility,reflex,healing factor,durability and telepathic.

capts peakhuman how can you even figure he can hang with gorgon is beyond me

I don't see how this is even a debate.

Gorgon can turn people to stone just by looking at them.

Gorgon was obviously a speedster.

Gorgon had telepathy.

Oh and he had ridiculous healing factor that allowed him to have chunks ripped out of his body.

Cap's only chance of victory is if his shield manages to reflect the glare back at Gorgon.

Which is very, very unlikely...

wow me and draco actaully agreeing lol

Originally posted by riceroost
to deflect even a few of the Gorgon's strikes, since Gorgon has super-speed. And if the Shield does become annoying (which it wont) Gorgon will simply grab the Shield, take it from Cap, and fling it 100 yards away, since he's y'know super-strong.

🤨

he'll . . . grab the shield and take it cuz he's . . . y'know super-strong' . . .?

that's . . . pretty solid. cuz cap has 'rarely' fought people stronger than he is, and on the rare occasions when he has they ALWAYS take away his shield . . . 🙄

I repeat: If Cap's shield had any kind of edge it would cut his fingers off when he catches it by the rim, WHICH HE DOES ALL THE TIME!!!

i'm confused. you seem to legitimately believe cap's shield is dull or something. you don't read a lot of cap or cap-related material, do you . . .?

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4019/avgrs50025yq1.jpg

i could literally show a dozen more of him slicing through steel I-beams, multiple robot heads, stone, chain, almost anything . . . and i could show many scans where the shield DOES get stuck in things after it's been delfected off its intended course. it's been in stone walls, metal walls, it's sliced through trees, etc . . .

one final time -- yes, the shield is extremely sharp . . .

This is pretty obvious and I dont know how you are going to argue the point.

i can't explain how wolvie's neck is laced with adamantium such that his head can't be removed but he can still move his head like a normal human either . . . it's comics, logic fails at the micro-levels.

cap's catching his shield is more plausible than the wolvie-adamantium neck scenario though. given his skill with the shield why's it so hard to figger he could catch it without lopping off his digits?

Yeah and Wolverine has slapped around Spidey pretty badly too, yet he (who is faster/stronger/etc. than Cap) got WRECKED by Gorgon. Cap wont do squat to a guy that Wolverine can't beat.

fraid that type of logic doesn't fly. cap crushed ironfist, ironfist has matched wolverine. the whole a, b, c rule is never a good one to invoke.

Cap doesn't have any useful options that Wolverine does no talready posses.

actually he does. he has at least something of a LONG-RANGE attack option -- wolverine has NO such option. it might not help him most of the time, but in at least a couple of fights it might give cap the opening he would need. cap also has the option of letting the shield take the brunt of the damage where wolvie himself takes the damage.

I would say that's wrong, and if not it's debatable anyway. Wolverine was cerebral enough to take out Cap without his claws in Origins.

not sure what book you're referencing. cap was also smart enough and skilled enough to beat wolvie by using his shield as a distraction. a low-blow by wolverine was the only thing that prevented cap from a quick and easy win.

And he was trying not to hurt Cap the whole time.

and? cap almost NEVER fights full out with intent to kill.

Who cares? A cap prepared to kill is still not going to be anywhere near as dangerous as Wolverine prepared to kill.

opinion. and utterly unsubstantiated at that.

And Gorgon obliterated Wolverine and Elektra when they both wanted him dead and they were suped up. Cap will show us nothing Wolverine couldn't do to Gorgon better. Case-closed.
Cap has a chance, yet Wolverine and Elektra working together and with power-ups had no chance. I fail to see the logic there. [/B]

gorgon is without his tk in this fight. if cap fights to his fullest, using his shield to his full advantage, i see him having a chance in at least a couple of fights. where is the proof that gorgon is appreciably faster than spiderman? cap hit spidey so quick that even with his 'SUPER' speed and 'SUPER' strength, spidey was unable to evade the blows, block them and was hurt by them. AND spidey has pre-cog.

again, gorgon is tough. he's handicapped in this fight though and in straight h2h combat cap will almost always have SOME chance even if, as in this case, the chance is small.

oh, and hey jin. 😉

Originally posted by capt it up
Lieing is not a good thin my friend.

First of all dont accuse me of lying, you dont even know me, accuse me of being wrong but not of lying, got it?

Originally posted by capt it up

I own the Marvel RPG game and what you just said was complete and utter bull shit.

What version are you talking about, im talking about the TSR game that came out in the late 80s and early 90s! For about half a decade Wolverine was one level below in fighting and agility to Cap. I can even direct you to the source. The only other version of the RPG is SAGA and I don,t have that version I have looked at a SAGA website and it doesnt even put fighting into category.

Originally posted by capt it up

Capt and wolverine are both listed at level 7 in fighting skills and in agility capt was only listed as a level 3, while wolverine was written as a level 4.

Were? Are you talking about the SAGA game which I do not have

http://hammer.prohosting.com/~quibly/SuperRPG/characters/char-01.html

It doesnt have fighting skills as a level and it put both Cap and Wolverines agility at 10....so what on aerth are you refering too. That is the first time I have seen the SAGA game but most people seem to use TSR and as far as I know it was out for longer so I see at as being more accurate.

Originally posted by capt it up

Again that’s another lie on your part.

DONT TELL ME IM LYING!!!!! GGGGGEEEZZZZZZ!!!!! 😠

Originally posted by capt it up

DD agility is listed at 3, while wolverines is listed at 4.

As far as I can remember there were some cards that came out in 1993 that listed Caps agility as 5 and Beats as 5 and Wolverine as 4 (im not sure if I had a wolverine card but it think alot of people will consider Wolverine to be less agile to Beast)....maybe they have changed but as far as I know there are people on here that can confirm that Cap's agility

Originally posted by capt it up

ya please don’t try and lie again because I will catch you in the lie.

AGAIN....DONT TELL ME IM LYING!!!!

Originally posted by capt it up

Really? So you agreed with the listing of wolverines agility eing a whole level over both DD and capt.

HELL NO!

Originally posted by capt it up

Really like were? The marvel encyclopedia’s? which always state Logan with hgher agility. Or how about the card game which also states logan with higher fighting skill over capt. I think you have seen wrong.

Well you had better show me. Even if it does show it what has Wolverine done to deserve to have highier agility and fighting. Even with his upgrade it does not state that he has enhanced reflexes, and it also says his memories of fighting in Japan and over plces are dubious because of memory implants.

Originally posted by capt it up

Same went for spiderman as well. If you read the fight you would realize that spiderman only hit wolverine when wolverine allowed spiderman to hit him.

Er excuse me how many times did Logan cut Spiderman? So Wolverine was letting Spiderman dodge? None, Zero, Zilch, Nada. All the best fighters can tag Spidey even if they cant beat him. Wolverine does not touch him once all of a sudden he is a better fighter and faster than Cap and DD.

Originally posted by capt it up

What the hell are you talking about? Wolverine has stabbed Spiderman and has easily made contact with Spiderman, so what you’re saying makes no sense. Seriously the point you are trying to make is in correct.

GIVE ME SCANS PEOPLES!!!!!! I aint taking you're word for jack, I also remember Spiderman dodging the whole of the X-men in Secret Wars. Wolverine didnt touch him once again.

Originally posted by capt it up

That DD thing is not a new thing it happen like 5 years a go.

Right so Spiderman cant do that. Cap cant do that......all of a sudden he does that to DD in 3 panels

Originally posted by capt it up

He has been up grade over the years, but that ahs nothing to do with him punking DD

The only way Wolverine gets to punk DD, Cap or Spiderman is with upgrades and even then his strength has only been put peak human.
He is overated period.

Calling Wolverine overrated while defending Captain America.

The ironing is very delicious.

Gorgon wins, because I say so. And being infallible and omniscient that will suffice.

Originally posted by capt it up
Same went for spiderman as well. If you read the fight you would realize that spiderman only hit wolverine when wolverine allowed spiderman to hit him.

Say what now? We must not have been looking at the same thing

Originally posted by capt it up
What the hell are you talking about? Wolverine has stabbed Spiderman and has easily made contact with Spiderman, so what you’re saying makes no sense. Seriously the point you are trying to make is in correct.

Yea, he's stabbed him times when they were supposed to be sparring and not going at it full on

Other than those I agree with what you said

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast ✅

Did you see how badly Gorgon thrashed both Wolverine and Elektra? And both of them even had time to prep and came with all sorts of weapons and armor. Cap is not gonna win