Originally posted by Creshosk
Like Galactus and the Silver Surfer.. or Cyttorak and the Juggernaught.What I giveth, I taketh away...
Abd that's exactly what the writers did... we just know that incident as the retcon itself. Oops...
TOAA vs Beyonder
TOAA: Retcon biyotch.
Beyonder: Sonuva...
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
But really, in all seriousness...
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Originally posted by Creshosk
Like Galactus and the Silver Surfer.. or Cyttorak and the Juggernaught.What I giveth, I taketh away...
Abd that's exactly what the writers did... we just know that incident as the retcon itself. Oops...
TOAA vs Beyonder
TOAA: Retcon biyotch.
Beyonder: Sonuva...
Yeah, Beyonder is retconned, but still seen as a specific character.
TOAA have failed...
Are you talking TOAA as a fictional character or TOAA as the writer?
Acording to Jack Kirby the writer was supose to be God (not the company) and his power the pen.
OK, Ive been giving this a lot of thought, and I think I have figured something out. Now, everyone assumes that Marvel, DC, and all of the other comic companies exist within the same omniverse because the Omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING. But that's not necessarily true. I think(and this is just my opinion your welcome to disagree) that if nothing else, the two major companies(Marvel and DC), each are their own omniverse. I mean, why do they have to exist in any type of structure together. The companies themselves don't share a building, so why should their creations have to share space no matter how distant. The companies themselves don't consult with one another and agree on omniversal threats so why should we assume that they share the same omniverse. Their crossovers don't count even as cannon(with the exception of JLA vs Avengers) so why do we feel the need to lump them together on any level. Have the companies themselves stated that they share an omniverse together or is that something that readers have assumed? Because if it is just assumed, why can't they be completely separate, just as the companies are.
If the chaos wave from Marvel hadn't been stopped, do you really think that DC would have shown it's effects there? No, because the two companies are on two completely different planes of existence, and NOTHING, no matter how big, can cross the boundaries between the the two without the others consent. That tells me that the separation between the two goes way beyond being two megaverses, sharing an omniveres. Now the specifics of each section is irrelevant, because it doesn't matter if something is universal, multiversal, megaversal, or omniversal because all of it is still confined to one company, just like it actually is.
Now something happens in this instance. The supreme being's of each company get elevated in power. Because now the Presence, and TOAA rule over EVERYTHING. Period. Because as far as they're concerned the other company doesn't exist. Which is how it should be since they're considered supreme throughout the company(omniverse). If you don't follow this then things get confusing because if they're just megaverses than there is an even higher supreme being, running the omniverse, and since neither company will EVER come to a consensus about that, that means that somehow the Presence and TOAA have always existed side by side in an mutual omniverse that has no origin, because no one created it.
Now before you discount my theory please remember that unless BOTH companies(not just one) have stated that they exist in the same omniverse, or said something else which directly contradicts what I have just stated, my way actually makes more sense, and is just as valid as the currently accepted order. However, if they have officially stated that they share an omniverse, let me know and I withdraw my theory and no one will ever hear about it again. I'm not trying to write things for either company, I'm just trying to put into words what they never bothered to.
And I know that this just support my arguments about this fight, but that's because my arguments and my theory make sense to me. The fact is that the Beyonder hasn't shown actual omniscience, while TOAA has, so I can't believe that he possesses more power than TOAA. It just wouldn't make sense for ANYONE to have more power than the supreme being. Because, well, supreme is supreme. But like I said this is a theory that I just came up with and I'm not trying to claim that it's the Gods honest truth, so if you find any holes in it, let me know. But now it's almost 6:00 A.M. and I've been working on this for a long time so I'm going to bed.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
What I given I can take away, so:
Richard Reeds and Sue Storm can take away Franklin Richards power.
I mean they give birth to he and his powers.
Same goes for Jean's human parents.Yeah, Beyonder is retconned, but still seen as a specific character.
TOAA have failed...Are you talking TOAA as a fictional character or TOAA as the writer?
Acording to Jack Kirby the writer was supose to be God (not the company) and his power the pen.
Yeah I think we got our wires crossed, my in first post you responed to I was talking about the fictional character, but then I started thinking you were a nut that was talking about the actual writer. Sorry for the confusion, thats my bad.
If I can take a image or comicbok with the Hulk, tear it into pieces.
Does that make me stronger than him, as a fictional character?
If I go and kill Jack Kirby does that make me above TOAA?
Ok, that maybe was a little much but you get the picture.
A writer is only human, his imagination might be a better picture for TOAA power. But it still not unlimmited, Humanity can't describe the 7th dimention for example.
Imagination is based on knowledge, and in this case imagination is the power.
But as a fictional character God, both in DC and Marvel have show just average featatures, compared to Beyonder.
But Beyonder cannot jump out from a comic book and strangle a writer...
Originally posted by lft4ded
This makes a lot of sense actually. And I haven't heard anything to the contrary. How long were you typing this up? 😄
About 2 1/2 hours actually. I feel the need to go back and change things I write repeatedly untill I'm sure they won't be misunderstood. Plus I continously reexamine them while I'm typing to make sure I agree with what I put down in writing.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But as a fictional character God, both in DC and Marvel have show just average featatures, compared to Beyonder.
But Beyonder cannot jump out from a comic book and strangle a writer...
Have they shown any features? All I know of for TOAA is that he presented a face to the FF and that he manipulated Thanos when he had the Heart. I'm not sure how this is turned into 'average'?
Originally posted by lft4ded
Have they shown any features? All I know of for TOAA is that he presented a face to the FF and that he manipulated Thanos when he had the Heart. I'm not sure how this is turned into 'average'?
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
TOAA manipulated Thanos (He was his mind) -- Thanos had tHotU TOAA's power.
Yet Death survived because she exist in all realities, not only Marvel.
Perhaps, it was his unrequitted love, that caused him to spare Death. Thanos mentioned after the Infinity Gauntlet that even he doesn't have total control over his subconscious mind, when speaking of how he was defeated (that he wasn't worthy).
Besides, the Living Tribunal is above Death, and he couldn't resist Thanos' power.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Perhaps, it was his unrequitted love, that caused him to spare Death. Thanos mentioned after the Infinity Gauntlet that even he doesn't have total control over his subconscious mind, when speaking of how he was defeated (that he wasn't worthy).
Besides, the Living Tribunal is above Death, and he couldn't resist Thanos' power.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUReally? Mxy's actually done something very close to that. In one issue of Superman he almost got one of the current people on the book fired, because apperently he's good friends with the DC editor in chief.
If I can take a image or comicbok with the Hulk, tear it into pieces.
Does that make me stronger than him, as a fictional character?If I go and kill Jack Kirby does that make me above TOAA?
Ok, that maybe was a little much but you get the picture.A writer is only human, his [B]imagination
might be a better picture for TOAA power. But it still not unlimmited, Humanity can't describe the 7th dimention for example.
Imagination is based on knowledge, and in this case imagination is the power.But as a fictional character God, both in DC and Marvel have show just average featatures, compared to Beyonder.
But Beyonder cannot jump out from a comic book and strangle a writer... [/B]
Originally posted by Juntai
You're right, I'll take your word for it, despite all the contradictory evidence.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I'm not going to quote the same thing over and over again, esspecially since 90% of it have nothing to do with this topic anway.
This is just an other Thanos w/ Heart vs Beyonder (Pre-retcon) thread.
I could sit here and explain everything, but 10 minutes later you would type the exactly same thing.Beyonder had the power of the wrtiers... So basicly he was TOAA
Just like Thanos with the Heart...
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUTrue in a sense, however, the real universe, at least in DC, is part of the DCOmniverse[while existing outside of the Multiverse/Universe norm].
Fact is every fictional character can be retconned by the writer.
If they realesed a comic were the Living Tribunal fights and defeats a being named the One Above All (and is not the Celestial) well than that is a retcon.
So yeah the wrtier isnt really God, God is just a character that the writer gave power.
Mr Mxyzptlk has popped into the 'real world' even so recently as a handful of issues before Crisis [the real world being depicted by actual pictures of the associates at the office] and Mxy complained to the editor that they weren't doing a great job with the comic, and the Editor promptly had it fixed. Oh- and it appeared Mxy also had his full range of powers in the real world, as his teleportations and flying among other powers still worked. 🙂
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The beyonder did not have the power of the one above all. The True one above all at marvel is the editor in chief. He tells them what to do. He listens to the lawyers and copyright guys and all that extra stuff and lays down the law. The one above all at marvel is Joe quesada. And his power would impede that the beyonder would never be able to challenge the might of DC's presence becuase DC would have the right to sue the hell out of marvel and cuase grave financial dmg to marvel. Marvel is the bigger comics comapany by a slim margin. But DC's parent company is like a damn abstract in the entertainment world. Time Warner is Galactus. lol.
And it's the first time I heard someone say that Joe is TOAA.
By Jack Kirby's little add in the Fantastic four, we got the image of that the writer is "God", but not as a fictional character.
In that issue, "God" talked on the phone... ect. ect.
So Jack Kirby with the help of Stan Lee was God there. -- but I think he was refering to the writer.
Do you seriously think that Joe Quesada?
I'm not even sure that he is the one who reads the comics before it's realesed. he's only there to make $.
-- And the fact that you can't suport that claim... well you get it.
TOAA is a wierd expression, it was invented by Jim Starlin under the Infinity Gauntlet/Crusade series.
Never actully stated that this being was God, that's just speculation.
It was only stated that this being was above the Living Tribunal and the God's.
TOAA is a wierd expression, it was invented by Jim Starlin under the Infinity Gauntlet/Crusade series.But its been made quite clear in this thread the others before that by TOAA, we were talking about Marvel's Supreme Being. We use "TOAA" because it's the most generally accepted.
Never actully stated that this being was God, that's just speculation.
It was only stated that this being was above the Living Tribunal and the God's.