Originally posted by celestialdemon
I think what people aren't understanding is you can't go completely by on panel feats. If we did, then most of the cosmics in both universes would own TOAA and the Presence since they basically have no feats. But we know that's not the case.With Spectre, for all his power all he was able to do was weaken Anti-Monitor. He still needed the rest of DC's heroes to defeat AM. Mr. Mxy, for all his power, ran from the queen of the 10th dimension, another being that has no on panel feats. So there is someone more powerful than him.
Now, when it comes to Pre-retcon Beyonder, no one was a threat to him. The astracts were too afraid to fight him. Rachel's power did nothing. The second most powerful being in the Multiverse, Molecule Man, got beat down by him as well. And when he put the Multiverse on notice, it was taken as a serious threat.
Fact is, every other very powerful entity has had the limit of their power tested except the Beyonder. He crushed everyone he faced.
That's my 2 cents.
the only problem with that is he never existed. See when a retcon occurs it erases stuff like that like it never happened. So Pre-Ret is basically all an illusion. so all he did is something you can't say that he was all powerfull. and about that 10 D Queen she never showed her self to be more powerful all she showed was she was a being who ate other dimensional beings and dimensions through trickery.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
the only problem with that is he never existed. See when a retcon occurs it erases stuff like that like it never happened. So Pre-Ret is basically all an illusion. so all he did is something you can't say that he was all powerfull. and about that 10 D Queen she never showed her self to be more powerful all she showed was she was a being who ate other dimensional beings and dimensions through trickery.
She didn't eat any dimensions thru tricker. She out right ate them. She was so powerful that she had every imp of the 5d running for thier lives. Mxy and batmite erased the entire kingdom and put it back together again. By logic of the DC dimension scale, the queen of the tenth's power is unimaginable if the imps of the 5d can erase and put back together the multiverse. just 2 imps did it. really just one. Mxy. batmite was playing with myx the entire time. The queen had the entire 5th running from her. She would demolish the pre retcon beyonder. even if he was multiverses, she would simply eat him.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You guys just never f ing give up. The beyonder was never shown to be as powerful as mxy when mxy destroyed ALL of DC comics and put it back together again for kicks. GET REAL. I dont' want to hear about who was scared of the beyonder and none of the bullshit. SHOW ME where the beyonder did what mxy did. And then I'll be a marvel zombie too. Until then, you guys are hopeless marvel fanatics and the beyonder is your god. The beyonder has his limit tested too. When he put his power in that damn cup. he was tested when he killed death. So don't give me that bull. OMG. The beyonder is a mxy rip off. And the beyonder has never faced a being like the queen of the tenth. Any one who can make the entire 5th dimension run from her, would eat the beyonder for breakfast( as she eat's multiverses) and then she would burp out a cosmic cube. She would retconn the beyonder herself.
So the fact that this queen made the 5th dimension run from her is relevent to your argument but when the entire marvel universe is afraid of the Beyonder that makes no difference to you? Please!
Why would someone of Mr. Mxy's power, who can destroy "ALL of DC comics and put it back together again for kicks", need to run from a being who eats universes (or is it multiverses....make up your damn mind)? And someone please SHOW ME where the 10th dimension queen is overpowering Mr. Mxy.
Beyonder was not tested by that cup. He and all the cosmics there knew exactly what would happen once Death drank it. Using enough power to kill Death was hardly a test of his limit when he still had more power than the combined abstracts, which included Multiversal judge LT.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingOther than common sense?
Magneto says it's an EM pulse. If he used some other kind of energy, I wouldn't know. What he says is an EMP and she's dying because of him. The fact is that she died and by him, which is later still referenced in Here Comes Tomorrow. As far as it goes Magneto killed her with his own power...we'll taping the Earth's magnetic energy.This is energy he's been gather for a few days when he unloaded it on her. It's not the same as him pulling EM's out of the blue. Magneto also liquified admantium within seconds. It doesn't make sense that he could do it so quickly without strainning but he did. He's also dispersed Dazzler's attack into harmless light. The guy says it's an EMP. If it wasn't, it still was his own powers concentrated and directed at her that killed her. There's nothing to suggest otherwise.
It's bordering on PIS or something because it is really stupid to claim that something that is harmless to people killed a person. It's like saying Radio waves killed a person... It's really utterly stupid.
Electro magnetic energy is harmless. And repeating back to me that "that's what he said" further's my beleif that there was something that the character didn't know about. Cause characters are frequently wrong in comic books.
Now, this being that can take the energy of a star exploding (ehich indludes Electromagnetic energy, and ultraviolet radiation and a whole bunch of other energies... Is killed by an EMPulse?
No I'm sorry that's as beleivable as Spiderman beating Firelord, or wolverine surviving a Nuke. It goes against previously established canon, and is stupid in every other sense.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingLittle things here and there. Like the handbook scan you showed that talks about the infinite power, and how the phoenix force is associated with creation (Fantastic four big bang what have you) and being a life pool source of energy (galactus and phoenix claims)
See what I don't understand is the TOAA and Phoenix Force connection. Where's this coming from? From what I've gathered, this is all just a speculation. Does it say anywhere that this is TOAA's creative energy?
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingHas to start somewhere right? And if this thing is responsible for recreating a dead universe is it so unbelievable for this thing to be responsible for creating it in the first place? I mean what started the first one? the spark of creation wasn't refered to as the phoenix force, since the phoenix force is just a name given to a preexisting thing by Jean grey I think it was back around issue 101 . . . Before that what would you call the phoenix force?
Phoenix Force is part of a cycle; it's job is to spark the big bang every time after the universe dies. That's certain. What I don't get is where does it say PF created the VERY FIRST universe or multiverse to begin this cycle. All references and scans have been to her role in the current universe (which is part of the cycle).
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingAs I said the phoenix force might be the name for the creative energy of TOAA given to it by either the sentience that was formed by Merlin I think it was or Jean grey. IT really doesn't conflict if the energy source the sentience was created from is the creative energy pool from which the universe was (re)created along with the abstracts of a given universe... what (re)creates them when a universe (and the universal aspects with it) dies? If Galan/galactus is the only carry over, the other aspectys would have to be recreated right?
My whole issue is Phoenix fans trying to claim that the Pheonix created the universe and therefore brought concepts and abstracts into being. When all is shown is the abstracts have yet to even consider the PF in any relation to them. Nor have they said she's more powerful then them.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingNow think about it in terms of there being the two phoenix forces... the sentience, and a seperate source of energy.
Simply put my take is:
TOAA created LT and concepts and abstracts. It created the very first universe(s) that make up the multiverse. Beings such as Eterntiy, Death, Chaos, Order, Oblivion, and Ressurection were created by TOAA. When the first universe died, the Phoenix Force ressurrects the universe through a spark and begins the universe again.Some Phoenix Fans:
Phoenix created the big bang and is said by Uatu to be second only to the Creator. Here's a scan that references the PF responsible for the big bang which created the universe. Whose part of the universe? Oh that's right, everything including Eterntiy, Death, and the other abstracts. There! Case close. Eternity and the other abstracts are below PF because it "created" the universe and the abstracts are part of the universe. 🙄
I'm not going to place the Phoenix force that's a source of energy into a hiearchy... cause that'd be like putting optic blasts or cosmic rays or something into a hierarchy of power... rather a silly thing to do.
The sentience I haven't seen as being all that... higher than a hungry galactus since it did stalemate him when Rachel was a host for it. other than that we saw the White Crown Avatar doing some maintainence work on 616... But it mostly roams around.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingWhich goes against the galactus story doesn't it?
The funny thing about other Phoenix fans' argument is that no marvel bio has put her in such a position (TOAA's power, multiverse creator, second only to LT). In comics, there's no actual words by any of the abstracts that the Force is in a way related to them much less responsible for their creation or is the source of their power. quote] Well, just answer who recreates them when the previous universe dies?If each Universe is an Eternity, then doesn't the phoenix force recreate Eternity?
[QUOTE=7169834]Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The argument's for the Force's place in the MU also ignores X-Men Forever's universal cycle that she's a part of. No where in it does it say that Eternity and the other abstracts were related much less created by the Force. In fact Prosh says that the abstracts survives to the next universe.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingA rose by any other name... Jean called it the phoenix force... *shrugs* as I said there is some confusion because of the name.
[B] As for the Stranger, he referred to it as the Ressurection Force.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingThis might be the sentience. Seperate from the actual power.
Other things ignored by fans is also references regarding the Phoenix Force as "a child of the universe." Meaning it was born at some point in one of the universe.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingSo if the phoenix force recreates a universe and isn't a source of creation what is it?
You only here that she sparked the big bang therefore everyone's to believe that the abstracts were created because of the Phoenix. 🙄
heres how it goes down.
Anti-Monitor is busy overseeing the construction of his tower, Dark Phoenix walks in and sonters over throwing her hair back revealing her milky white skin, her full and pouty lips. As she walks towards him he gets full veiw of her soft viluptous hips and long slender legs. She leans in close to him, her full firm breasts rubbing ever softly against his armor. Her arms wrap around his neck as she leans in closer and softy but firmly kisses him on the mouth........
Then he blows his load and creates an entropy rifts which destroys a Universe.
The story continues in Crisis on Infinite Earths #1
Originally posted by Basti0n😆
heres how it goes down.Anti-Monitor is busy overseeing the construction of his tower, Dark Phoenix walks in and sonters over throwing her hair back revealing her milky white skin, her full and pouty lips. As she walks towards him he gets full veiw of her soft viluptous hips and long slender legs. She leans in close to him, her full firm breasts rubbing ever softly against his armor. Her arms wrap around his neck as she leans in closer and softy but firmly kisses him on the mouth........
Then he blows his load and creates an entropy rifts which destroys a Universe.
The story continues in Crisis on Infinite Earths #1
Originally posted by celestialdemon
So the fact that this queen made the 5th dimension run from her is relevent to your argument but when the entire marvel universe is afraid of the Beyonder that makes no difference to you? Please!Why would someone of Mr. Mxy's power, who can destroy "ALL of DC comics and put it back together again for kicks", need to run from a being who eats universes (or is it multiverses....make up your damn mind)? And someone please SHOW ME where the 10th dimension queen is overpowering Mr. Mxy.
Beyonder was not tested by that cup. He and all the cosmics there knew exactly what would happen once Death drank it. Using enough power to kill Death was hardly a test of his limit when he still had more power than the combined abstracts, which included Multiversal judge LT.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlThat's because beyonder was too powerful. And it wasn't TOAA that retconned him, It was the real writers.
Woship your God the beyonder. Too bad your God has been retconned. While mxy remains the same.
And you call everyone a marvel zombie, the only thing you have shown is that you like to insult people, and your a DC fanboy.
Originally posted by bigbran
That's because beyonder was too powerful. And it wasn't TOAA that retconned him, It was the real writers.And you call everyone a marvel zombie, the only thing you have shown is that you like to insult people, and your a DC fanboy.
I'm not a DC fanboy. I"m a show me on panel boy. and On panel, mxy has shown more power than the beyonder. I hated the beyonder when he first came out. I thought he was a mxy rip off then and I still do. I thought his description was over stepping his bounds since he was the sum of every thing out side of marvel. And as far as the insult goes, such is life. When people put on panel things that prove one point, and yet people still insist on arguing thier side with out ever addressing what was stated, then yes, I will say worship your god. I still haven't seen anyone show me on panel, the beyonder destroying and recreating the entire mu multiverse. until he does, he is not more powerful than mxy.
Originally posted by Xplosivelmao. Can't beat me with evidence, so now I'm some sort of delusional fanboy?
Jutnai, you are such a fan of Spectre and therefore of DC that you wouldn't never admit, you are such a fan of Spectre as GS of Phoenix.Now, shall we create a thread Pre-R Beyonder Vs. Spectre and a poll, of course and say which would win, and let them vote, as many of them, shall we, to see who would win in a battle Pre-R Beyonder Vs. Spectre.
Get that shit out of here.
Marvel characters win 90% or more of polls on the forum. Even Hulk was beating Superman in a poll for good amount of time. There's simply more Marvel fans. Many of whom just have no idea about the DC characters.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlDoes being a bad guy mean nothing to you?
I'm not a DC fanboy. I"m a show me on panel boy. and On panel, mxy has shown more power than the beyonder. I hated the beyonder when he first came out. I thought he was a mxy rip off then and I still do. I thought his description was over stepping his bounds since he was the sum of every thing out side of marvel. And as far as the insult goes, such is life. When people put on panel things that prove one point, and yet people still insist on arguing thier side with out ever addressing what was stated, then yes, I will say worship your god. I still haven't seen anyone show me on panel, the beyonder destroying and recreating the entire mu multiverse. until he does, he is not more powerful than mxy.
And Anti-Moniter 12/10