Post Star Forge Revan & ROTS Obi-Wan vs. ROTS Mace & Kyle Katarn

Started by Advent17 pages
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Stop being Naruto

LOL!

Man Woman,

Fixed.

I'll answer if I like to. Because most people who know about Katarn know he's definately greater than Obi-Wan

Yes, but you shouldn't answer a question specifically for someone else, who obviously is delusional.

WTF, the movie scene shows him before the first Force Push that he was attacking. It wasn't very clear then.

By this logic, Obi-Wan uses Ataru against Anakin, Grievous, Vader in ANH, and Dooku in AOTC because he attacked! If you want to say that he was using Ataru, which is from the very same novelization that says he switched to Soresu, you'll have to accept it. Attacking doesn't mean you're necessarily using another form.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
WTF, the movie scene shows him before the first Force Push that he was attacking. It wasn't very clear then.

Errr...Form III does have attacks in it. lol, its a defensive style not a defensive stance. Styles have both attacks and defense, Form III just focuses on defense. lol Its not like Form III users don't know how to attack. 🙄

Sama, are you in some kind of "lawyer" phase?

Oh please, your honor - I object. This is ridiculous, I'm not the one on trial here!

I was a witness once. The lawyer kept asking me questions trying to catch me in a lie. At the end he ended up getting pissed off because I wouldn't answer the same question he asked 3-4 times in a different manner.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nai, what the hell is this bullshit about Revan and Malak being "about equal"? Since when were they EVER "about equal"? That's some unsubstantiated bullshit on your part. And when did Sidious kill the stormtroopers. Was it in ROTS or a lot later? And if it was a lot later how the hell can you say "ROTS Sidious had far more powerful lightning than Revan", when that's also unsubstantiated(assuming Sidious didn't kill the Stormtroopers in ROTS). Stop calling people fanboys, you are obviously having a rough month or are angry about something.

It's stated that Revan and Malak engaged in a "epic lightsaber duel" on the Star Forge and going by that description I'm pretty sure that Revan was not vastly superior to Malak. They were about equal at this time.

@Adas:

1. Both Malak and Bastilla continuously mention that the SF powers up the individual controlling it, I can't give you the exact quotes because I haven't played the game for a while, but IIRC:

Because said quotes don't even exist because you're making things up.


(I)Bastilla mentions that Revan was a fool for not harnessing the full power of the SF (something like that), and sparks fly into her from the SF, and she seems stronger - seemingly she has been powered up.

And more bullshit. There aren't sparks flying from the SF to her. She just stands up, goes to fight Revan and gets defeated. Yes...she says that Revan was a fool for not using the entire power of the SF but all that Revan did with the SF is - for the ten-billionth time - producing ships.


(II) Malak repeatedly states similar things to what Bastilla says, and at one point even states that he can use the power of the SF to drain the life energy of the jedi and make him stronger (something along those lines).

Again: Wrong. He just keeps talking about the Dark Side energies stored within the Star Forge. Nothing about boosting force powers up. Yes...he mentioned that the SF allowed him to store the life-force of the Jedi and he would be stronger because being able to drain them (healing himself). That's it.


(III) Once Revan has defeated Malak, he states something like 'Impossible. I have all the power of the SF on my side yet you still beat me' (something similar to that). Now he is clearly referring to combat power here, as he is amazed that Revan was able to defeat him in a combat situation, even though he had all of the power of the SF on his side.

(IV) Malak states to Revan [once Revan has defeated him by the way, not casually as he was talking about the SF's ability to mass produce starships like you just said] that if he had learnt the true power of the SF (True power - different function, nothing about being able to control the SF's ability more efficiently), he may have become invincible. Now seeing as Revan already knew of the SF's ability to produce ships, it definitely can't be that; Malak repeatedly states that Revan was never able to harness the true power of the SF - he also makes it clear that he is referring to the powering up of the SF. It's clear that Malak is referring to the powering up of the SF.

Please try to feet me more of that blatant made-up bullshit.

"Still . . . still spouting the wisdom the Jedi, I see. Maybe there is more truth in their code than I ever believed. I . . . I cannot help but wonder, Revan. What would have happened had our positions been reversed? What if fate had decreed I would be captured by the Jedi? Could I have returned to the light, as you did? If you had not led me down the dark path in the first place, what destiny would I have found?"

"I wanted to be Master of the Sith and ruler of the galaxy. But that destiny was not mine, Revan. It might have been yours, perhaps . . . but never mine. And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing."

That's what Malak says after Revan defeated him. Uh ? Star Forge ? Power ? No ? Seems like you are pretty damn wrong.


Now the fact that he states that Revan would have become invincible means that either the powering up of the SF is immense, or Revan was already near invincible. Either way, it speaks incredibly for Revan as he was either close to invincible in Malak's eyes (Malak would have had no need to lie, he knew much about the SF and Revan, and would likely be aware of how powerful Revan would have grown with that added power) or the powering up of the SF was immense, and Revan was able to defeat someone who was already extremely powerful, yet had the added power of the SF (which was so immense that it could have possibly made Revan invincible).

First: The so called "fact" is a lie.
Second: Revan used his military power and not his personal power to defeat the Republic hence "invincible" would refer to his forces and not to his personal power.
Third: We know that Kavar went to fight Malak and "barely escaped alive". Kavar was most likely the most proficient lightsaber user of the remaining Jedi (as head of their Guardians). So if he can't kill Malak...who would be able to defeat Revan who was superior to Malak in personal confrontation ?


2. You seem to think that Malak needing to drain the life off of the captive jedi to keep up with Revan says something bad about Malak. This just says great things about Revan and the SF.

Given that this fight doesn't happen on the Star Forge but a "flat hard surface" why do you even argue the SF's power, huh ? Nobody would have access to it since nobody would be on it in this battle.

On the Star Forge and with the ability to drain some Jedi's lifeforce stored there Revan might have a chance against Mace or Kyle (but given that Kyle was able to wipe the floor with Jerec's sorry ass while Jerec had a part of the power of the Valley of the Jedi I'd doubt that).

Look dude, I can't continue this because it's been too long since I played the game. However I'm sure the stuff I posted was accurate. Do you know of a website where I could possible find out?

Fixed.

No really, I DID know you were a woman 😮

Nai, they were NOT about equal. Revan was the superior when they both first joined the dark side, and Malak states Revan(right before their epic duel), became even more powerful than when he was the dark lord. Also, I do not see how you can consider this the same Malak. I would imagine at the very least, receiving life from 8 Jedi would make you superhuman or immortal for a given time.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nai, they were NOT about equal. Revan was the superior when they both first joined the dark side, and Malak states Revan(right before their epic duel), became even more powerful than when he was the dark lord. Also, I do not see how you can consider this the same Malak. I would imagine at the very least, receiving life from 8 Jedi would make you superhuman or immortal for a given time.

ROFL.
It's pretty obvious that Revan was superior to Malak - with "equal" I meant that there wasn't a huge gap between their skills. Otherwise we won't have an "epic duel" but something like "And then Revan kicked Malak's sorry ass through the Star Forge with considerable ease."

And Malak drained the Jedi's lifeforce to heal himself - how would that make him superhuman or immortal ? He just healed himself doing this. He could also have taken some Medikit and do that. And as far as the story goes he maybe did it only once. So what ?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The Betrayal series talks about Sidious' lightning? And escape, where did Sidious kill all those storm troopers? Not saying he didn't but I'm curous where. Also, that is enough to put Sidious' lightning>Revan's or equal to? In regards to the comparison, from what I see, Revan's miniature force storm seems to take out any opponent you are currently fighting. Then again that is gameplay, but I don't feel there's enough evidence to compare the two, ESPECIALLY put Sidious' lightning over Revan's. Yoda must be a God then if he can absorb it or deflect it.

Palpatine obliterated those dozens upon dozens of Stormtroopers prior to Return of the Jedi - in the Betrayal comic series. Furthermore, Revan was not seen doing that much damage with his version of the Force Storm. Weren't you the one proclaiming that a Force Storm is an upgraded, more deadly version of Force lightning?

Maybe in Revan's case, because Sidious's standard Force lightning killed more people than Revan's Force Storm, meaning that:

Sidious's Force lightning > Revan's Force Storm - or at the very worst - Sidious's Force lightning is equal to Revan's Force Storm.

"epic duel"

Just because it's called an epic duel doesn't mean the two contenders are equal in ability. How do we know it's an epic duel, were there any historical records saying its epic? In KOTOR, I wouldn't consider Revan vs. Malak epic, instead in my account (I played lightside), Revan pawns Malak.

It's stated that Revan and Malak engaged in a "epic lightsaber duel" on the Star Forge and going by that description I'm pretty sure that Revan was not vastly superior to Malak. They were about equal at this time.

Please name the source.

From Star Wars Databank:

The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable

Basically, Revan had to face like 6 or 7 Malaks, all fully replenished. This shows Revan's power.

And Malak drained the Jedi's lifeforce to heal himself - how would that make him superhuman or immortal ? He just healed himself doing this. He could also have taken some Medikit and do that. And as far as the story goes he maybe did it only once. So what ?

See up, he didn't use only one captive. And he wasn't using some Medkit just to slightly heal himself, he was using the full life force of a Jedi Knight.

On the Star Forge and with the ability to drain some Jedi's lifeforce stored there Revan might have a chance against Mace or Kyle (but given that Kyle was able to wipe the floor with Jerec's sorry ass while Jerec had a part of the power of the Valley of the Jedi I'd doubt that).

Nonsense, even on a flat hard surface, Revan has a long duel with either Kyle or Mace.

The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable

That's what I thought. If this was indeed stated then Revan did indeed face a super powered Malak.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Just because it's called an epic duel doesn't mean the two contenders are equal in ability. How do we know it's an epic duel, were there any historical records saying its epic? In KOTOR, I wouldn't consider Revan vs. Malak epic, instead in my account (I played lightside), Revan pawns Malak.

No way. Revan used mines, medkits, stims, grenades, was getting his ass kicked, and just got lucky!

That's one of the ways yes... ^

And I don't get it. One hit from a lightsaber would kill Malak, unless Revan is so sucky that he cannot hit a successful hit 7 times in a row. Malak can't regain skin or limbs by draining jedi's, and he has no health meter to fill either. I don't get how all the 7 jedi is getting used, yet how a single one of them was used...

Using force attacks can drain someone, maybe that's what they healed. They gave stamina back. In a lightsaber fight, though, stamina will help, but, if you get stabbed, you're ****ed.

Yeah. I don't belive that Malak using the jedi was such a huge factor, it was more a thing to increase the difficult and lenght of the final battle...

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Basically, Revan had to face like 6 or 7 Malaks, all fully replenished. This shows Revan's power.

It's never said he uses all of them. You can get by the game with him only using two, and two accounts for plural, so basically - quit pulling numbers from your ass.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's what I thought. If this was indeed stated then Revan did indeed face a super powered Malak.

Explain how just stocking back up on "life force" means he faced a "super powered" Malak? He just faced a fully replenished Malak a few times. I really don't see how that's impressive, considering he's just beating someone who has always been inferior.

Yeah. Dooku could fill his stamina up to as good as new without jedi's to drain, but it didn't help him that much against Anakin....

It's never said he uses all of them. You can get by the game with him only using two, and two accounts for plural, so basically - quit pulling numbers from your ass.

If it was only two, then they would have said a couple. By multiple, it would be several, probably at least three. Plus Malak uses many Force abilities, so he'll be replenishing himself more than twice.

Explain how just stocking back up on "life force" means he faced a "super powered" Malak? He just faced a fully replenished Malak a few times. I really don't see how that's impressive, considering he's just beating someone who has always been inferior.

Of course he's super-powered. He's facing a fully replenished Malak several times. Revan would be tired by then, so that's why its probably considered an epic duel.

And plus, how do you know he was just replenishing his life force, Star Wars Databank says this:

The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives.

By energy, it could mean power and more Force strength.