Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
If it was only two, then they would have said a couple. By multiple, it would be several, probably at least three. Plus Malak uses many Force abilities, so he'll be replenishing himself more than twice.
Alright. If I may, I'd like to introduce People's Exhibit 22, a written excerpt from the Star Wars databank:
"This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic. The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed."
-- SW Databank, Darth Malak.
Now, Mr. Vos - if you'd please tell the forum: where's "multiple" again? Ah, nowhere to be found. It never says "multiple", never says "several", ergo you don't know. I'll go with "You're making shit up in an attempt to save your argument" for $400.
It says exactly "from the captives", which is plural, which could mean two. Which means you don't know, which turns into me telling you to quit pulling numbers out of your ass and substituting bullshit for fact.
Nothing further.
Of course he's super-powered. He's facing a fully replenished Malak several times.
I'd like to question you're definition of "super powered", Mr. Vos. Generally, "super powered" would be excepted as actually having more power than you would naturally, in terms of just power. Simply just coming back to your already state of power is hardly a "super powered" Malak.
And I'd now like to introduce for the forum, People's 23, a written definition taken from definition.com:
superpower;
–noun
1. an extremely powerful nation, esp. one capable of influencing international events and the acts and policies of less powerful nations.
2. power greater in scope or magnitude than that which is considered natural or has previously existed.
So, how does "replenishing" his health (life force) equate to giving him more power than what was already there? Granted that him actually having the ability to draw upon health like that wasn't already there, it doesn't give him any actual strength in terms of power or increase rather. It's fighting a fresh Malak possibly twice. Not a "super powered" Malak twice, just a regular old Malak - as if he had rested.
So great, he's facing basically Malak a possible two times. Count Dooku, in the ROTS novelization, is able to practically fully revitalize himself before fighting Anakin. Is the Invisible Hand now the Star Forge? Before you object, I withdraw on that last question.
Revan would be tired by then, so that's why its probably considered an epic duel.
So, beating your inferior is impressive? Given we don't even know how many times Malak refreshed, as I said - it could only be two, and there's no indication it gives him actual power. So, how does that make Revan > Mace? Or Kyle? Who, may I remind you, beat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and was already the strongest of the seven Dark Jedi.
And prove he would be tired. Since you cannot establish the exact count of times Revan had to beat Malak, it could be no more than two times. Which, I doubt, would make Revan that tired considering Malak is his inferior.
Count Dooku, an 80 year old man, fought three people in a row. One including Master Yoda. Asajj Ventress took on numerous opponents in the Gauntlet, and so on.
And plus, how do you know he was just replenishing his life force, Star Wars Databank says this:By energy, it could mean power and more Force strength. [/B]
Or it could just combine with the sentence immediately after that says:
"He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs"
And in the game anyways, the Jedi only give him health, but that's irrelevant. And it's more than likely that it means revitalize what energy he's using.
And now, I officially remove myself as KMC Attorney.
Now, Mr. Vos - if you'd please tell the forum: where's "multiple" again? Ah, nowhere to be found. It never says "multiple", never says "several", ergo you don't know. I'll go with "You're making shit up in an attempt to save your argument" for $400.
First of all, call me Quin.
Second, it says Jedi captives. You're right captives is plural, but that doesn't mean it's two. In the game, we see 6 captives. Malak keeps reviving his himself. While it can be two, it's pretty obvious (even though not stated) that Malak wasn't using less than 3 captives. So therefore, stop saying bullshit that only two captives are used. We don't know if it's two, but there is a 5/6 chance that it is more than 2 captives.
Or it could just combine with the sentence immediately after that says
How do we know??? It could mean power. I'll use your technique advent, do we know that it just means life force? The next sentence could mean one of the abilities draining can do, not just replenishing.
So, beating your inferior is impressive? Given we don't even know how many times Malak refreshed, as I said - it could only be two, and there's no indication it gives him actual power. So, how does that make Revan > Mace? Or Kyle? Who, may I remind you, beat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and was already the strongest of the seven Dark Jedi.
See next quote:
Malak was nearly unstoppable
Basicaly Revan defeated the near impossible.
The line that "Malak was nearly unstoppable" originates from where, exactly?
I believe that Advent has provided sufficient evidence to disprove the theory that "the Star Forge boosts personal and/or Force power" as you have yet to provide anything but a vague quote, that could translate to military might.
Especially given that Malak was forced to drain the health from the various captives, nothing gives the illusion that the Star Forge enabled Malak with super powers.
Originally posted by Escape81
The line that "Malak was nearly unstoppable" originates from where, exactly?Especially given that Malak was forced to drain the health from the various captives, nothing gives the illusion that the Star Forge enabled Malak with super powers.
That line is from the Databank, and this...
Using a mysterious power source as yet undiscovered (complete Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to learn more), Darth Malak possesses extraordinary dark side Force powers out of proportion.
Taken from the DS sourcebook... now as to what extent the SF boosts his power is up for debate since it never says.
Hey... I just actually participated in a debate... it's a miracle!
Oh and yea Revan and Obi loose...
I believe that Advent has provided sufficient evidence to disprove the theory that "the Star Forge boosts personal and/or Force power" as you have yet to provide anything but a vague quote, that could translate to military might.
What a biased thought. Advent has given a strong argument, which I admire her for. However, advent still hasn't disproved the theory that Star Forge doesn't give Force power. And how have I provided vague quote, I'm using an official source. And how does that translate to military might?
And thank you Veneficus for that added boost to my argument, 🙂
Originally posted by Escape81
The line that "Malak was nearly unstoppable" originates from where, exactly?I believe that Advent has provided sufficient evidence to disprove the theory that "the Star Forge boosts personal and/or Force power" as you have yet to provide anything but a vague quote, that could translate to military might.
Especially given that Malak was forced to drain the health from the various captives, nothing gives the illusion that the Star Forge enabled Malak with super powers.
In addition to the fact that the SW databank clearly hints at the star forge increasing dark side power, here are some quotes from Bastilla and Malak that i've picked up playing the Star Forge level again.
the star forge fuels my command of the dark sidewith the power of the star forge fueling your dark side abilities,
you can defeat revanthe star forge fuels the dark side within me, making me stronger than everyone
but the jedi masters.The star forge takes their power(the dead jedi), and transfers it to me
The star forge FUELS the dark side
That line is from the Databank, and this...
Unfortunately, the "nearly unstoppable" line has been used, time and time again, for various characters. Every other two-bit Dark Jedi that we see would be all powerful if that were the case.
the star forge fuels my command of the dark sidewith the power of the star forge fueling your dark side abilities,
you can defeat revanthe star forge fuels the dark side within me, making me stronger than everyone
but the jedi masters.The star forge takes their power(the dead jedi), and transfers it to me
The star forge FUELS the dark side
My apologies, then. It seems that the Star Forge does.
But:
the star forge fuels my command of the dark side
To what degree?
with the power of the star forge fueling your dark side abilities,
you can defeat revan
Apparently not.
the star forge fuels the dark side within me, making me stronger than everyone but the jedi masters.
Is this Bastilla or Malak ?
Either way, it just goes to show that apparently the Star Forge doesn't equate to extreme power if there are unaided Jedi Masters who equal or surpass its power.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
First of all, call me Quin.
No, Mr. Vos. The Court has given me the right to address you formally. You do not give me orders.
I'd like permission to treat witness as a hostile.
Second, it says Jedi captives. You're right captives is plural, but that doesn't mean it's two.
Again, that's not the point. The point is WE DON'T KNOW. So why do you keep pulling numbers out of your ass, and plainly making shit up?
It could've been two, it could've been six. We just don't know, ergo stop treating your opinion - which in this situation is no more valid than mine - as fact.
In the game, we see 6 captives.
Irrelevant. In the game, you can get by Malak by him only using two. Just because he has six, doesn't mean he'll use them all or even close to.
Malak keeps reviving his himself. While it can be two, it's pretty obvious (even though not stated) that Malak wasn't using less than 3 captives.
What bullshit. You're making so much shit up now. It says "Jedi captives" - how does that make it obvious it could be more than two?
Oh? It doesn't? Pulling shit of your ass. Sorry, but this point is defeated. You have no argument as to how many exactly, ergo you can't continue debating this point. It's ridiculous to assume you'll actually get this point across when both sides' opinions are equal due to the unknown factor. In other words, there's no point bringing this up at all.
And as well, this is a logical fallacy - appeal to probability. So, this point collapses beneath your keyboard.
So therefore, stop saying bullshit that only two captives are used.
Me stop saying bullshit? Please show me where I've stated he definitely only used two Jedi?
Making more shit up, I see. I made it clear that it's completely possible, and is just as valid as saying he used all six - not that he definitely did use two, unlike your arguments trying to save your sorry argument (multiple Jedi bullshit, etc.). Your ignorance on this situation will lead to your downfall.
We don't know (Ha, of course we don't know, ergo you cannot be more valid than I -Advent) if it's two, but there is a 5/6 chance that it is more than 2 captives.
No, there's really not. No, again QUIT PULLING FIGURES OUT OF YOUR ASS. Just because there was six, doesn't mean he even more than two.
And the probability on that is COMPLETELY WRONG, LOLOLOL.
There's a 1/3 chance that it will be two. There's a 2/3 chance it will be more than two.
OWNED BY 4TH GRADE MATH. And even so, you cannot say that just because it's likely - that it will happen. To do so would be, as I said, appeal to probability (which = a logical fallacy).
How do we know??? It could mean power. I'll use your technique advent, do we know that it just means life force? The next sentence could mean one of the abilities draining can do, not just replenishing.
Except my "technique" is used to devise a hole that cannot be filled in because we have no knowledge. Basically, you can do the same thing, but again - it doesn't mean shit. Your point holds no water, because we don't know, that is the point I'm making.
It depends.. Malak who was already the second most powerful person in the the galaxy during that era, became even more powerful. That last statement was made by Bastilla. So Nai's point is conceded, the only question is to which degree does the star forge empower the dark side of somebody? However, you CAN safely describe Malak as being super powered(powered by the star forge and the 8 jedi), as I originally stated.
Originally posted by Escape81
Unfortunately, the "nearly unstoppable" line has been used, time and time again, for various characters. Every other two-bit Dark Jedi that we see would be all powerful if that were the case.
I never said I agreed with the line, I was merely pointing out where it was stated. I'm thinking it more less refers to the fact that Revan's mission was well... somewhat suicidal and insane... but then what RPG is complete without the insane and suicidal last quest?
No, Mr. Vos. The Court has given me the right to address you formally. You do not give me orders.
My name is Quinlan, I am not a mister. Please lady, if you wish to address me formally, call me Quin.
Again, that's not the point. The point is WE DON'T KNOW. So why do you keep pulling numbers out of your ass, and plainly making shit up?
Go screw numbers out of your ass, is that all you say!!!!???!!!! I am not making shit up, it's true Malak had 6 captives, why wouldn't he use them? Yes, you can get through the game with only 2, but you can also get through the game with all 6.
Making more shit up, I see. I made it clear that it's completely possible, and is just as valid as saying he used all six - not that he definitely did use two, unlike your arguments trying to save your sorry argument (multiple Jedi bullshit, etc.). Your ignorance on this situation will lead to your downfall
And even with two Jedi, Malak is quite formidable. See below:
There's a 1/3 chance that it will be two. There's a 2/3 chance it will be more than two.
Yeah, but that fraction benefits you. It could be:
2 Jedi used
3 Jedi used
4 Jedi used
5 Jedi used
6 Jedi used
So it's 1/5 chance that only two were used, but 4/5 chance that it can be anything else.
Except my "technique" is used to devise a hole that cannot be filled in because we have no knowledge. Basically, you can do the same thing, but again - it doesn't mean shit. Your point holds no water, because we don't know, that is the point I'm making.
My holes are full of milk (coming from happy cows), it can be tasty or sour. It's dangerous, the tasty option makes me right while the sour option makes me wrong. I prefer the tasty option.
So stop pulling shit off your ass 😘
Apparently not
By proving he defeats an almost undefeatable Malak, Revan proves he is the prodigal knight and that he is very powerful.
The star forge FUELS the dark side
Malak himself is a very strong Sith Lord, and with the Star Forge + anywhere from 2-6 Jedi, he will be very strong. If Revan can do all this, I am sure he can contend with either Kyle or Mace.
'And the probability on that is COMPLETELY WRONG, LOLOLOL.
There's a 1/3 chance that it will be two. There's a 2/3 chance it will be more than two.
OWNED BY 4TH GRADE MATH. And even so, you cannot say that just because it's likely - that it will happen. To do so would be, as I said, appeal to probability (which = a logical fallacy).'
This is actually wrong Advent. There are five possibilities - 2, 3, 4. 5, 6.
So the probability of there being two is 1/5.
Now the probability of there being more than 2 basically translates into the probability of there being 3 or 4 or 5 or 6, which would be 1/5 * 4 = 4/5.
So unlucky. 😂