This is putting a video-game charcter up against a a movie character. That's quite hard, especially since their 4000 years apart.
We have ALOT more info. on Mace than we do on Revan. We've seen Mace in action....repeatedly. We only HEAR about Revan's achievements or play them OURSELVES. There are too many variables and "what ifs" surrounding Revan to make a precise conclusion.
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Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
My name is Quinlan, I am not a mister. Please lady, if you wish to address me formally, call me Quin.
Actually, if you're a male - you're a "mister". And the court gives me the right to address you anyway I please.
Go screw numbers out of your ass, is that all you say!!!!???!!!!
Yes, because that's all you're doing.
I am not making shit up,
Oh? You're not? Okay, here's what you've made up so far, and treated as fact:
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Basically, Revan had to face like 6 or 7 Malaks, all fully replenished. This shows Revan's power.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
By multiple, it would be several, probably at least three.
You were saying? There's a couple for you.
it's true Malak had 6 captives, why wouldn't he use them?
Asking me to prove a negative? I don't think so. It doesn't matter if he had six or fifteen - it does not mean he used them all. He doesn't have to. There's nothing that states the number. And to assume just because he has six, he must use them all is fallacious reasonings.
Yes, you can get through the game with only 2, but you can also get through the game with all 6.
Oh my god, I'm going to explain this simply
That. Is. My. Entire. Point.
When have I ever said that he definitinly only used two? I haven't. I've said it's a possibility, and that it's just as valid as saying he used all six because of the unknown factor. However, on numerous occasions you're treating it like he has to have used more than two.
My entire point is that we don't know, ergo you cannot say that he used anymore than even two.
My holes are full of milk (coming from happy cows), it can be tasty or sour. It's dangerous, the tasty option makes me right while the sour option makes me wrong. I prefer the tasty option.
Someone's been smoking too much marijuana dipped in embalming fluid. Possibly even snorting too much coke as well. Maybe even shoving a tampon dipped in alchohol up your ass too much.
Point being: You're insane, and as expected, you fail to see the point. Unknown factor = you can't make an argument on it because we don't know. So, since you fail to respond properly I'm just going to assume that you can't because I'm right.
So stop pulling shit off your ass
Uh, what? Pulling shit off my ass? Glad to know someone has no idea of the saying, it's "out of your ass". So, please stop pulling shit out of your ass, and flinging it around like a monkey.
And to claim that I am "making shit up" is ridiculous when I'm not even adding any new evidence, just putting holes in yours.
By proving he defeats an almost undefeatable Malak, Revan proves he is the prodigal knight and that he is very powerful.
Yes, because that line was specifically refering to Malak individually. Read the entire excerpt:
"This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic. The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed."
I'm inclined to believe that it was talking about Malak's military might using the Star Forge, not Malak on a singular level. Given what I've highlighted in bold.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Revan doesn't have time to put on stims, speed boosts, adrenalin, mines, throw grenades (Malak will push it back likely), etc. We all played KOTOR, and using the pause button we can put on all those enhancing items, but in reality they would have both ignited their sbers and fought. We also know Revan defeated Malak fairly. Yes, we don't know, but we have to assume...
Uh... not during the battle, before it.
And how do you know that's not what happened? Before Ep 3 came, we just knew Obi-Wan would defeat Anakin. Does that mean Obi-Wan was superior to Anakin by ROTS? No, definently not....
"This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic. The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed."
I checked the Databank and they don't have an article on Revan. The Republic emerged victorious because Revan defeated Bastila (and broke her Battle Meditaton) and because Revan defeated Malak.
When have I ever said that he definitinly only used two? I haven't. I've said it's a possibility, and that it's just as valid as saying he used all six because of the unknown factor. However, on numerous occasions you're treating it like he has to have used more than two.
I am just saying there is a likelihood that Malak did use more than two.
Someone's been smoking too much marijuana dipped in embalming fluid. Possibly even snorting too much coke as well. Maybe even shoving a tampon dipped in alchohol up your ass too much.
Wow, you actually took that comment seriously. You make me sick 😘
Uh, what? Pulling shit off my ass? Glad to know someone has no idea of the saying, it's "out of your ass". So, please stop pulling shit out of your ass, and flinging it around like a monkey.
Don't be insulting monkeys 😠 !!! Seriously advent, your ridiculous insults like "pulling stuff off ur ass" is really getting you no where.
Uh... not during the battle, before it.
Huh??? Revan was always greater Malak, if that's what you're asking.
We have ALOT more info. on Mace than we do on Revan. We've seen Mace in action....repeatedly. We only HEAR about Revan's achievements or play them OURSELVES. There are too many variables and "what ifs" surrounding Revan to make a precise conclusion.
But even from those achievements we can assume (and yes, assumption is the only possibility) that Revan is still an impressive Jedi. I mean, I am not going to list his feats, but they're pretty good.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why is there still an argument? I provided quotes from the characters themselves concerning what the star forge does. Unless you want to call them fallible 3rd party characters, which they aren't, I think it's pretty obvious that the SF boosts your abilities and dark side energy.
And now what ? Even if the SF boosts up somebodies Dark Side abilities (and I still doubt it) you can't quantify that effect. Obviously it was not enough to make Malak beat Revan. So either the effect isn't that great or Malak must have completely sucked before using the SF (which - sorry - would pretty much make the entire KotoR era look weak).
Now I still don't see what puts Revan over Mace Windu. His pre-KotoR feats are canonically limited to defeating two non-force-users (Yusanis and Mandalore) and we don't know how he did it. As a Sith Lord he could have technically fried them with Force Lightning. Great deal. Then he used some "force storm" (which was obviously weaker compared to Sidious force lightning) to electrocute some Rakatan scout party (or parties) - great, more people without defence against force attacks.
His KotoR feats (in game) unless there are limitations by the storyline could have been done by him and his entire crew (the "3 groupmembers" limitation belongs to game mechanics which aren't canon) and even the actions that can be accounted to him alone (e.g. defeating Malak) might only have been possible because he was wearing a bunch of artifacts and "tools" ranging from powerful lightsaber crystals, "magical" clothes (robes etc.) to a variety of implants, medkits and stamina. Again: So what ?
How does this stuff put Revan over people who personally tooled enemy armies (Mace, Kyle), wrecked entire groups of Dark Jedi (Kyle) and fought against pretty impressive force users and lightsaber duellists (again both of them), especially when both of them are lightsaber and force prodigies, one of them having a unique force ability (Shatterpoint) which helps quite a lot in direct confrontation and the other being equipped with the power of one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) sources for force power in the entire SW universe (the Valley of the Jedi).
You can argue this back and forth. There is not the slightest possibility that Revan will take either Mace or Kyle out before the other one of them has finished Obi-Wan. And because of that Revan and Obi-Wan are going down here. It's really that easy.
And now what ? Even if the SF boosts up somebodies Dark Side abilities (and I still doubt it) you can't quantify that effect. Obviously it was not enough to make Malak beat Revan. So either the effect isn't that great or Malak must have completely sucked before using the SF (which - sorry - would pretty much make the entire KotoR era look weak).
Or perhaps Revan is really good.
His KotoR feats (in game) unless there are limitations by the storyline could have been done by him and his entire crew (the "3 groupmembers" limitation belongs to game mechanics which aren't canon) and even the actions that can be accounted to him alone (e.g. defeating Malak) might only have been possible because he was wearing a bunch of artifacts and "tools" ranging from powerful lightsaber crystals, "magical" clothes (robes etc.) to a variety of implants, medkits and stamina. Again: So what ?
That's just game stuff. In reality, he probably just customized his blade to his liking.
How does this stuff put Revan over people who personally tooled enemy armies (Mace, Kyle), wrecked entire groups of Dark Jedi (Kyle) and fought against pretty impressive force users and lightsaber duellists (again both of them), especially when both of them are lightsaber and force prodigies, one of them having a unique force ability (Shatterpoint) which helps quite a lot in direct confrontation and the other being equipped with the power of one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) sources for force power in the entire SW universe (the Valley of the Jedi).
Revan defeated the Sith Academy on Korriban.
And for the last time, he defeated a Star Forge powered, Jedi captive powered, Malak, who himself is good. Perhaps he can't beat Kyle or Mace, but he's not going to lose in five minutes.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Or perhaps Revan is really good.
How would he be far more powerful than in his prime as a Sith Lord when he did basically nothing besides regaining his old memories ?
That's just game stuff. In reality, he probably just customized his blade to his liking.
This is funny...we don't know what he used or didn't use. Perhabs he just went there with some regular Jedi robes and a none-modified lightsaber - or he could have done this equipped with a bunch of "artifacts".
Revan defeated the Sith Academy on Korriban.
No. This only happens if you choose to kill both "leaders" of the academy and this choice is considered "Dark Side" - Revan is canonically light side - hence this most likely didn't happen.
And for the last time, he defeated a Star Forge powered, Jedi captive powered, Malak, who himself is good. Perhaps he can't beat Kyle or Mace, but he's not going to lose in five minutes.
Wow ? Didn't I just say that he won't be able to beat one of them in the time the other needs to defeat Obi-Wan ? Meaning that Revan will have to deal with both of them at once in which case he will simply go down...
Hmm...I could swear that I just said that.
Originally posted by Borbarad
How would he be far more powerful than in his prime as a Sith Lord when he did basically nothing besides regaining his old memories ?
Everything else aside, Malak clearly states he is more powerful now than he was during his reign as a DLOTS, so I don't know why you said what you said.
How would he be far more powerful than in his prime as a Sith Lord when he did basically nothing besides regaining his old memories ?
Because Revan is an unsual guy and he basically re-learned everything he did as a Jedi Knight. I guess that's why he is prodigal. In addition, his adventures for the quest for Star maps must have made him powerful.
This is funny...we don't know what he used or didn't use. Perhabs he just went there with some regular Jedi robes and a none-modified lightsaber - or he could have done this equipped with a bunch of "artifacts".
Sure, he went on with some clothes and a lightsaber. That doesn't affect the way you fight.
No. This only happens if you choose to kill both "leaders" of the academy and this choice is considered "Dark Side" - Revan is canonically light side - hence this most likely didn't happen.
Wrong, from GameBanshee KOTOR walkthrough
"If you allow her to go while persuading her to reconsider her Sith ways, you'll get (LS Points) and the academy will be hostile to you on your way back through it. As a bonus to changing her toward Light, though, if you're able to return to Dantooine afterward, you can find Yuthura outside the Jedi Enclave on the north side of the Courtyard! "
This is what probably happened as Revan is the heroic lightsider.
Wow ? Didn't I just say that he won't be able to beat one of them in the time the other needs to defeat Obi-Wan ? Meaning that Revan will have to deal with both of them at once in which case he will simply go down...
Are you stupid, I said perhaps . I believe Revan is on the level of Kyle and mace, but I said perhaps (as in if you were right), then Revan can easily fight for at least five minutes.
how, pray tell, could beating your inferior in any way be as a result of bad luck? Lets stop making all the bullshit assumptions like "Oh he must have used some enhancements, blah blah blah. What is definitive is that the SF does fuel your darkside abilities, or make them easier to control or whatever, thereby making you more powerful. Malak was empowered by the star forge and the Jedi. How many Jedi is unclear, but I have given you quotes that relate to his empowerment.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
how, pray tell, could beating your inferior in any way be as a result of bad luck? Lets stop making all the bullshit assumptions like "Oh he must have used some enhancements, blah blah blah. What is definitive is that the SF does fuel your darkside abilities, or make them easier to control or whatever, thereby making you more powerful. Malak was empowered by the star forge and the Jedi. How many Jedi is unclear, but I have given you quotes that relate to his empowerment.
So what did you think when GL said that Obi-Wan was the one who defeated and wounded Anakin so that he became Mech-Darth Vader before ROTS came out? That Obi-Wan was superior to Anakin? Yes, that's what most would have to belive. Was he superior? No, hell no....
And there is nothing to suggest he DIDN'T use enhancements himself, so your assuming just as much, cause we don't know SHIT of what happened!
And in that vision, Malak is seen lying dead on the floor, and Revan in his full battle armor is standing by his side. Is this non-canon?
Originally posted by kamikz
So what did you think when GL said that Obi-Wan was the one who defeated and wounded Anakin so that he became Mech-Darth Vader before ROTS came out? That Obi-Wan was superior to Anakin? Yes, that's what most would have to belive. Was he superior? No, hell no....
And there is nothing to suggest he DIDN'T use enhancements himself, so your assuming just as much, cause we don't know SHIT of what happened!And in that vision, Malak is seen lying dead on the floor, and Revan in his full battle armor is standing by his side. Is this non-canon?
You're missing the entire post Kam. If Revan was the superior fighter/force user(which he was), why would he win by luck?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're missing the entire post Kam. If Revan was the superior fighter/force user(which he was), why would he win by luck?
I'm reck'nun you folk ain't so good at understandin' no english cause yer posts sounds too funny, nodamine? So don't come on here all high-falootin' an stuff actin like yall somethin yer not!
Wooo. The Nature Girl, Motoko Sama. *chop* Wooo *elbow drops keyboard* *bleeds*
I'm reck'nun you folk ain't so good at understandin' no english cause yer posts sounds too funny, nodamine? So don't come on here all high-falootin' an stuff actin like yall somethin yer not!
Wooo. The Nature Girl, Motoko Sama. *chop* Wooo *elbow drops keyboard* *bleeds*
WOW, and you called me insane!