Originally posted by Punkyhermy
You baffle me.you really have no idea what you are talking about do you?
🤨
Originally posted by crazy
Lil bitchiness, let me ask you, are Hadiths infallible in Islam? I know you know the answer to this question but you might as well clarify it for me.
The Qur'an does not make sense without the Hadiths. They are as infalable as the Qur'an itself it.
I don't know where you get this idea that the Qur'an was sent by God, unchanged and perfect, while the Hadiths, are somehow tampered with ?
As far as Aisha's age goes in the Hadiths - she HERSELF has said that she was a girl 6 years of age, and that Prophet consumed the marriage when she was 9.
It is also said that she has 'not yet reached the age of puberty' - that is why she was still playing with dolls.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im waiting to prove me otherwise. We are currently talking about Muhammad's pedophilia.The Qur'an does not make sense without the Hadiths. They are as infalable as the Qur'an itself it.
I don't know where you get this idea that the Qur'an was sent by God, unchanged and perfect, while the Hadiths, are somehow tampered with ?
As far as Aisha's age goes in the Hadiths - she HERSELF has said that she was a girl 6 years of age, and that Prophet consumed the marriage when she was 9.
It is also said that she has 'not yet reached the age of puberty' - that is why she was still playing with dolls.
First , the hadith is from prophet , and its clarrify some rules that Quran didnt describe it in details , also , its give some advices ,warning ,story of old time .
but some hadiths is not confirmative unless you have the name of some old scinticis like : bukhare , muslem .abu malek .
Quran really sent by god unchange and perfect ,because muslims that time wrote it and collect it completly .
can you show me that hadith .
Originally posted by FatimaThe Qur'an is not sent by god, it's just a book.
First , the hadith is from prophet , and its clarrify some rules that Quran didnt describe it in details , also , its give some advices ,warning ,story of old time .but some hadiths is not confirmative unless you have the name of some old scinticis like : bukhare , muslem .abu malek .
Quran really sent by god unchange and perfect ,because muslims that time wrote it and collect it completly .
can you show me that hadith .
Originally posted by lord xyz
Girls who start puberty play with toys aswell. ermm
Aaah true but -
It is documented that the Prophet forbade playing with any kind of dolls or images (you are supposed to be devoted to god, and any kind of idol type thing was forbidden), BUT he only allowed it for Aisha because she has not yet reached puberty.
Also, as far as my own personal thought goes - it is not the age of the girl which troubles me so - it is the differance in the age.
For a man of 54 years of age, to be arroused by a girl of 9 is not natural.
If he was 16 and she was 9 - ok. If he was even 20 and she was 9 - I would attribute such to the culture.
But 54 years old to be attracted to a 9 year old, is just too extreme. The idea that a man of 54 would be attracted to the girl of 9 (he also had dreams about her) is just...you know....pedo like.
To be fair, who cares if Muhammad did partake in sexual shit with a 9 year old. I'm pretty sure most Muslims couldn't give two hoots. It's not going to stop him being a religious icon. It'll just cause more prejudice to the Islamic faith and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there is too much as it is.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
To be fair, who cares if Muhammad did partake in sexual shit with a 9 year old. I'm pretty sure most Muslims couldn't give two hoots. It's not going to stop him being a religious icon. It'll just cause more prejudice to the Islamic faith and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there is too much as it is.
I know this is a long thread, but read few pages back, just to stop me repeting myself 100 times.
Muhammad is considered al-insan al-kamil, which means a perfect man, whos EXAMPLE is to be followed.
In the Qur'an, Muslims are told that Allah has said that all should follow the Muhammad's example if they are to enter Heaven.
Unlie Christians, Muslims believe Qur'an not to be methaphorical, but only and complete word of God - uncahged and untranslatable.
Also, I explained why one cannot be prejudiced against an ideology - for such to be true, an ideology has to be established as TRUE.
When something is establsihed as true, any critisism towards it is considered as irrational -and thus wrong.
Like I said, flip through few pages of this thread.
I've read the whole thread... It still doesn't make sense to me why it's causing such a ruckus, so he did something that isn't social acceptable now. It's not like the Qur'an was written about some guy who was born 50 years ago. Yeah, he's not a "perfect man" in our eyes because now the idea of anything paedophilia-wise is just repulsive but in different cultures at different times their view on it will be different. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
If you have proofs that Mohammad had sexual relationship with 9 year old Aisha then provide them, otherwise stop calling him paedophile because their marrage was about strengthening realationship with her father. And i know examples of our time when parents of two friendly families make an agreement to marry their chldren, so parents could be sure they'll marry someone from worthy family. So practicall they are married before they reach puberty. But the actuall marriedge that involves close realationship and having children only happens when they grow up.
Originally posted by lil bitchinessTrue, that is wrong, but is Muhammed the only one?
Aaah true but -It is documented that the Prophet forbade playing with any kind of dolls or images (you are supposed to be devoted to god, and any kind of idol type thing was forbidden), BUT he only allowed it for Aisha because she has not yet reached puberty.
Also, as far as my own personal thought goes - it is not the age of the girl which troubles me so - it is the differance in the age.
For a man of 54 years of age, to be arroused by a girl of 9 is not natural.If he was 16 and she was 9 - ok. If he was even 20 and she was 9 - I would attribute such to the culture.
But 54 years old to be attracted to a 9 year old, is just too extreme. The idea that a man of 54 would be attracted to the girl of 9 (he also had dreams about her) is just...you know....pedo like.
Originally posted by §P0oONYI'll have to agree with you there. Jacob had two wives, does that mean that Jews are perverted for seeing Jacob as a saint? Jacob's sons gave up their own flesh and blood, does that mean they are evil, and Jews are too for talking about it even today in public schools? And what about the 10 plagues of Egypt, christians and Jews (and Muslims) today still see that as a good thing.
I've read the whole thread... It still doesn't make sense to me why it's causing such a ruckus, so he did something that isn't social acceptable now. It's not like the Qur'an was written about some guy who was born 50 years ago. Yeah, he's not a "perfect man" in our eyes because now the idea of anything paedophilia-wise is just repulsive but in different cultures at different times their view on it will be different. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
Originally posted by Sam ZSadly, there is evidence in the Quran that Muhammed was sexual with Aisha when she was 9 and he was 54.
If you have proofs that Mohammad had sexual relationship with 9 year old Aisha then provide them, otherwise stop calling him paedophile because their marrage was about strengthening realationship with her father. And i know examples of our time when parents of two friendly families make an agreement to marry their chldren, so parents could be sure they'll marry someone from worthy family. So practicall they are married before they reach puberty. But the actuall marriedge that involves close realationship and having children only happens when they grow up.
edit: I apoligise for this long post.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
I've read the whole thread... It still doesn't make sense to me why it's causing such a ruckus, so he did something that isn't social acceptable now. It's not like the Qur'an was written about some guy who was born 50 years ago. Yeah, he's not a "perfect man" in our eyes because now the idea of anything paedophilia-wise is just repulsive but in different cultures at different times their view on it will be different. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
We are talking about a religion here.
Religion which claims to be timeless ''one true path'' - and if Muhammad was sent down to show the ways to humanity, his actions should be timeless as well.
And to think that pedophilia was only a disorder in this century, is wrong. To view Arabs as savages and backword is also very wrong. The reason why Muhammad had resistance, and low following for a very long time, was because Arabs were very quesioning of religion and demanded proof - the one they can see.
Originally posted by lord xyz
True, that is wrong, but is Muhammed the only one?I'll have to agree with you there. Jacob had two wives, does that mean that Jews are perverted for seeing Jacob as a saint? Jacob's sons gave up their own flesh and blood, does that mean they are evil, and Jews are too for talking about it even today in public schools? And what about the 10 plagues of Egypt, christians and Jews (and Muslims) today still see that as a good thing.
Sadly, there is evidence in the Quran that Muhammed was sexual with Aisha when she was 9 and he was 54.
edit: I apoligise for this long post.
Muhammad may not have been the only one, but he was the only one claiming to be sent down by God, and had sex with a child.
Muhammad.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
Just look at the Ancient Greeks, it was not just acceptable for an elderly man to marry and have sex with very young females it was customary.
Again, your logic makes little sense.
Why are you comparing Ancient Greeks, to someone who claims was sent down by a all powerful diety? A deity who tells us to follow his example.
Ancient Greeks did not claim to be prophets, nor did they claim that if following their example will guarantee us place on the Olympus.
What did Allah mean by following Muhammad's example? Just for a little while? Forever?
What is more, in Iran and many other islamic countries, girls consent for sex is age 9. Google it.
Originally posted by §P0oONYThey also buggered eachother after sporting events. In fact, lots of things that we consider immoral, those moralities camer from the midle-east. So to base our moralities on around that time, then say they are immoral is just wrong.
Just look at the Ancient Greeks, it was not just acceptable for an elderly man to marry and have sex with very young females it was customary.
Sorry, for my delay.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I challenge you to disprove to me that :- that Muhammad was a paedophile, murderer and torturer.
- that he raped women captured in war, and allowed his followers to do so.
- that he preached terror as a way of defeting his enemies.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
- that he advocated murder of non-muslims.
Originally posted by lil bitchinessI don't know this one, but subdued is likely.
- that he advocated non-muslims to be humiliated and subdued.
Originally posted by lil bitchinessThe quote that I posted earlier seems to directly contradict that.
- that Allah advocated that friendship with non-muslims is forbidden.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
- That terrorists today mirror his behaviour.
I really fail to see the point you are trying to prove lil.... All you're basically saying is... "Paedophilia is wrong, this profit guy did it, yet people still look up to the guy as a profit of God." Your argument, if one can really call it that is pretty nonexistent. My point about the Ancient Greeks is what was acceptable in past times in other cultures (or now if you want to get technical with the countries where it's allowed) is not acceptable in our culture at this present time, it doesn't mean what they did/are doing is wrong. It's not wrong in their culture. I don't condone paedophilia but if other cultures do/did then I'm fine with it. It's not my place to judge.
XYZ; actually male Ancient Greeks could only have sex with other males if they hadn't gone through puberty and even then it technically wasn't sex as there was no penetration, it was more leg ****ing than anything.
Originally posted by lord xyz
I'm not sure to be honest, but there have been a lot of people who say so. One of them being lil bitchiness.
Yep, and i even know who's the other. The thing is I never saw an actuall surah or verse named. They go by the fact that Mohammad and Aisha were married and it makes them think that he had sex with 9 year old girl and I already explained that it's not ture.