Storm Respect Thread

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Page "40", about 7 lines up on the left side. "We had originally envisioned she had a power level that was equivalent to Storm's and, that the saving of the universe was a one-time only stunt"

Even Claremont acknowledges that characters have high feats and a level of normalcy.

Later, of course, the Dark Phoenix saga came and Jean went through the roof.

Okay, the one-time stunt was her healing the M'Krann Crystal which happened right at the beginning of Phoenix's existence.

AFterwards, she was written at levels parallel to STorm's.

Thing kept going and going, and we got the DPS.

CC then decides to put Storm's potential there and we get Rougestorm.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
How does him talking about that idea for Phoenix translate into "aknowledges that other characters......"

Yea, in 1980, a year AFTER he said they were equal. Obviously he made that statement with DP in mind as well

In July 81 we have RogueStorm who grasp ULTIMATE power.

Then we have that interview in 82 of him NEVER explicitly stating that Jean/PF is past storm in powerlevel.

Then we have in 83 Storm summoning the GC a from which she gains material and spiritual sustenance from each Star.

Then in 166 she summons the power of Stars again.

They both obviously parllel each other when you look at the authors work and the timeline. You can see that it holds true. Even some of the same terminologies are used.

Co-signed. You hit the nail on the head!

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Didn't Jean rebuild the universe or something?

I didn't say "other characters".

He said she was intended to be at Storm's level and the "saving of the universe" was a one time feat. One time feats are just that, they almost always entail some kind of boosted ability for one feat.

You can obviously interpret it anyway you want and it's obvious you are.

Look, we have MANY stories where we get to see how powerful the Phoenix Force is. In Storm's case, we know that her potential is on the level of Phoenix, but we have only seen a few pages of continuity that gives us a taste of this. So when I hear about Phoenix rebuilding the universe and all, I get excited because Storm's potential is also on that level. 😄

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Or so you think. 😎

We get it straight from the MAN.

She is.

Look at his work.

He never said she wasn't.

I even asked him personally. I have yet to get an answer. I am sure NOTHING has changed.

Nothing has changed. In X-Treme X-Men, CC stated in issue 5 that Storm will one day transcend humanity and evolve into real goddess.

Also, for the guy who tried to refute Blue about the 16 years with CC writing Storm, Storm has been around 32 years. CC wrote about 24 years of the character's continuity.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
Fair, however he never compared her to "Jean Grey". He compared the Phoenix to "Storm" (huge difference. ex: do you act/look like your father? or, does your father act/look like you?)

I like when he said this

Originally posted by Rutog98
Look, we have MANY stories where we get to see how powerful the Phoenix Force is. In Storm's case, we know that her potential is on the level of Phoenix, but we have only seen a few pages of continuity that gives us a taste of this. So when I hear about Phoenix rebuilding the universe and all, I get excited because Storm's potential is also on that level. 😄

i feel the same about t'challa and the silver surfer. when i see t'challa get norrin in a cosmic armlock, i get excited, because i know t'challa's potential is on the same level as the silver surfer. while i don't have any canon whatsoever backing that claim, we all know t'challa to be the true wielder of the power cosmic.

and doop.

and cypher.

and the term "nigh-infinite" is really a loose concept, if you think about it. can you be truly near something that has no definition or end point? i could allege beak had nigh-infinite power, because on the grand scale, his power level is relatively close to storm's. that's a fool's argument.

Originally posted by Disappear
i feel the same about t'challa and the silver surfer. when i see t'challa get norrin in a cosmic armlock, i get excited, because i know t'challa's potential is on the same level as the silver surfer. while i don't have any canon whatsoever backing that claim, we all know t'challa to be the true wielder of the power cosmic.

False analogy

Originally posted by Disappear

and the term "nigh-infinite" is really a loose concept, if you think about it. can you be truly near something that has no definition or end point? i could allege beak had nigh-infinite power, because on the grand scale, his power level is relatively close to storm's. that's a fool's argument.

Infinite is an abstract concept, as is "unlimited". Still, it is written to give an idea of scope of power.

1. not measurable: without any finite or measurable limits

2. exceedingly great: very great in size, number, degree, or extent
He took infinite pains over it.

3. mathematics greater than any assigned value: greater in number, size, or scope than any arbitrarily assigned value

4. mathematics with unlimited spatial extent: having unlimited spatial extent

5. mathematics with indefinitely many elements: having an indefinitely extendable number of terms or elements

6. mathematics supporting one-to-one relationship: describes a set able to be put into a one-to-one mathematical correspondence with a subset of itself

it was a joke.

and if infinite is an abstract concept, so is anything defined as being near it. imagine, if you will, that infinity is the only numerical value that has no terminal definition. it is, in essence, a numerical value without a numerical value. to say something is near-infinite implies that it is not infinite, and must have some terminal value in and of itself. but, to assign any numeral to the term near-infinite is self-defeating, as infinity would be relatively as far from any one number as from any other. thus, nigh-infinite can only be understood as infinity minus a certain amount. but, since infinity is ever-increasing, so would anything defined by that definition. so, in essence, nigh-infinite would mean infinite.

but, as the distinction was made to clearly state that this power was NOT infinite, we're put into a paradox in which you simply cannot derive meaning or permanent identification from the term. so, again, fool's argument.

Originally posted by Disappear
it was a joke.

and if infinite is an abstract concept, so is anything defined as being near it. imagine, if you will, that infinity is the only numerical value that has no terminal definition. it is, in essence, a numerical value without a numerical value. to say something is near-infinite implies that it is not infinite, and must have some terminal value in and of itself. but, to assign any numeral to the term near-infinite is self-defeating, as infinity would be relatively as far from any one number as from any other. thus, nigh-infinite can only be understood as infinity minus a certain amount. but, since infinity is ever-increasing, so would anything defined by that definition. so, in essence, nigh-infinite would mean infinite.

but, as the distinction was made to clearly state that this power was NOT infinite, we're put into a paradox in which you simply cannot derive meaning or permanent identification from the term. so, again, fool's argument.

Infinite is an abstract concept, as is "unlimited". Still, it is written to give an idea of scope of power.

Also, to keep this in perspective, She tells Doom that his power has limits, and that hers do not. as well as the panel before, were she says "I am power" (last three pages of the scan) it turns out i was wrong about the "incarnate" thing.

Edit

Listen to the author.

Remember he said "the bird effect" in that interview

"Her Power is a song within her"

Also....beyond HUMAN comprehension

"Her power SINGS within her"

"Evolved beyond ALL COMPREHENSION"

Originally posted by Disappear
i feel the same about t'challa and the silver surfer. when i see t'challa get norrin in a cosmic armlock, i get excited, because i know t'challa's potential is on the same level as the silver surfer. while i don't have any canon whatsoever backing that claim, we all know t'challa to be the true wielder of the power cosmic.

It was not a "Cosmic" arm lock. It was an awsome, secret "Wakanda" arm lock.

and the move was plausible. Using the board to surprise the surfer and manuver himself into the proper position to execute said lock. (I don't care how big or strong you are, if you mess up, and fall into Mr. Gracie's "triangle choke" it's pretty much a wrap.)

Yet she almost killed herself in trying to stop that storm. Something that Thor would have been able to do with ease, like Storm admitted.

I have no trouble admitting that Storm has incredible level of power, which she has. I believe she is an Omega mutant, and I believe that she will be able to attain godlike power when she transcends above her physical limits (like etc. Iceman has). But claiming that her power is ANYWHERE near the Phoenix Force is freaking ridicolous. Phoenix Force is MULTIVERSAL entity, Storm, at best, is at stellar level. Her feats just don't compare. And one statement, made by relatively new writer, 36 years ago, doesn't change that at ALL.

Unless Chris Claremont was a clairvoyant.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yet she almost killed herself in trying to stop that storm. Something that Thor would have been able to do with ease, like Storm admitted.

I would like to address this:

Storm holds herself back especially when working in a planatary atmosphere. When she went "punk", she let go of some her "blocks" and things that were difficult for her when she was "gentle" became much easier owing to her lack of restraint.

This is why when she was Rougestorm, she had such a difficult time stopping that storm she created. Colossus has brought her back to her moral core and she was working within those boundaries when she was trying to disperse that storm that she created as Rougestomr. She would not allow herself to ride roughshod over it. She forced herself to gently disperse it. She does this for the sake of the ecosystem. (However, sometimes she just speaks directly to the storm and commands it to disperse and it does instantly. lol)

Thor, on the other hand, does not have to be so cautious as his hammer does all the work and he does not. All he has to do is tap his hammer the prerequisite time or just will the hammer to do it and that little dohickey does it all.

Now, I did not say this, but there are stories where Ororo alters weather on a HUGE scale. For instance, even before she joined the X-Men, she dispersed a hemisphere-sized hurricane in "X-Men: The Hidden Years issue 7." She has altered weather on a continental scale more than once and globally as well.

Storm is reluctant to impose her will on natural hurricanes since that is the natural order of things. She could disperse them, of course, but it could trigger an equally devistating disaster.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
It was not a "Cosmic" arm lock. It was an awsome, secret "Wakanda" arm lock.

and the move was plausible. Using the board to surprise the surfer and manuver himself into the proper position to execute said lock. (I don't care how big or strong you are, if you mess up, and fall into Mr. Gracie's "triangle choke" it's pretty much a wrap.)

did renzo gracie ever fight someone without veins or an esophagus? did he ever fight someone whose power is so far above human ability that the use of the word "humanoid" would be a joke? norrin could have opened his hand and shattered t'challa's ribcage like it was made of something a toothpick would use to pick its teeth. name dropping a famous fighter doesn't make your point valid.

Actually if you can keep your arm down you can defend a triangle choke.

Still, if you ran over a Gracie with a tank you'd crush their body. It's just too much. Same theme there with Surfer.

But Surfer has a history of being a wimp so I'm not surprised he didn't obliterate anyone.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Look, we have MANY stories where we get to see how powerful the Phoenix Force is. In Storm's case, we know that her potential is on the level of Phoenix, but we have only seen a few pages of continuity that gives us a taste of this. So when I hear about Phoenix rebuilding the universe and all, I get excited because Storm's potential is also on that level. 😄

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Every mutant's potential is Phoenix level.

False.

Glittering Generality?? 😕

hmmmmmmmm

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Glittering Generality

You should use words you actually understand. Glittering generality doesn't really apply to that statement.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You should use words you actually understand. Glittering generality doesn't really apply to that statement.

False does.

You should actually QUOTE people entirely in context--Strawman.

He needs to outline every character and tell the exact reasons WHY they can attain Phoenix-level. First he needs to DEFINE "Phoenix level", and draw Parralels with "every character". I don't think he can, therfore that shit is FALSE.w00tehshocklaugh

It's very VAGUE and very FALSE.

Every character has superpowers and/or oddities. That is an accurate statement.

Every Character is Phoenix-level potential is FALSE.

It's an easy cop-out to write shit off because the evidence.w00teh

Try again.