Storm Respect Thread

Phoenix was second only to the Creator way back when CC made the comparsison in 1979- 1980 around DP saga.

Second to God>>>>killing universes.

All the rest of that shit is just the icing on the cake, a reaffirmation and looks "cool". Ya know, the bird effect and all.

That basic power component to the Jean/PF was/is compared to Ororo per CC.

Jean is fully realized telekentic godhood. That's what the PF was basically created for. Storm's BEEEEEN a Goddess since forever. She is like the archetype for every Mother-Goddess(Mother nature, anyone?). It's just bubbling underneath. It's still there. It came out in Roguestorm where she was beyond ALL comprehension. It is alluded to in X-treme where she says she's not there yet, but she's experienced it, most likely in Roguestorm.

All this notwithstanding the MYRIAD of obvious parralels.

It's undeniable.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
At the same time, with all that bullshit in mind, why argue against my assertions??

You still haven't outlined how "all" characters, notwithstanding any outside influences, with only their original powersets, and in CONTINUITY can attain comparable levels with the Phoenix.

If you can't, your argument is moot.

Originally posted by Disappear
the argument is that any character CAN, so long as someone decides to write it that way. abiding by the basic rules of fiction, in which a false reality exists at the whim of the writer, it makes sense. storm was at one point of a power level that rivaled the phoenix because a writer chose to make phoenix that level. writers have since magnified the importance, power and virtual omnipotence of the phoenix beyond that level, whereas storm hasn't changed much.

i believe that was the point. correct me if i'm wrong, big tuna.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Phoenix was second only to the Creator way back when CC made the comparsison in 1979- 1980 around DP saga.

You really got to stop this lying. The Magazine where Claremont made the statement was published on September 1979. That's not "around DP Saga". That was three months BEFORE Dark Phoenix saga. TEN MONTHS before Phoenix even TURNED into Dark Phoenix.

There was no Dark Phoenix when Claremont made the statement, and the only Phoenix Claremont was referring into was the green-suited Phoenix who wasn't even Herald level.

Is it really so hard to grasp this?

fact remains that storm has never DONE anything on phoenix's level as we know it today. regardless of whether or not claremont meant for his statement to stand the test of time [something it hasnt done, by the way,] the phoenix and its avatars are above and beyond storm's power level. she may one day become an official omega, may one day have universal-scale powers on the level of jean/phoenix, but she DOESN'T RIGHT NOW.

Originally posted by Disappear

shit. i'm becoming a condescending ass. whoo storm!

Welcome to the Internets 313

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You really got to stop this lying. The Magazine where Claremont made the statement was published on September 1979. That's not "around DP Saga". That was three months BEFORE Dark Phoenix saga. TEN MONTHS before Phoenix even TURNED into Dark Phoenix.

There was no Dark Phoenix when Claremont made the statement, and the only Phoenix Claremont was referring into was the green-suited Phoenix who wasn't even Herald level.

Is it really so hard to grasp this?

😆 shocklaughshocklaugh

Did you ever THINK that a writer has conceptualized characters many moths before they release it to YOU???shocklaugh

In late 1979 he may very well have had it in mind considering all the many avenues a writer has to go through to get a piece published.

Listen to the author AGAIN: In 1981 we have Roguestorm(Storm's parralel to Dark Phoenix) where she has evolved beyond ALL cmprehension. Then in 1983 we have Storm doing things comparable to DarkPhoenix.

Then recently in X-treme we have her making references to her ascension to Goddess-hood and how other mutants have the ability to do so, and also how she has experienced it and seen others do it.

Storm's true potential is just bubbling under the surface. She truned it down because her will is very powerful.

She WAS power at one point and was completely unlimited.

Originally posted by Disappear
did renzo gracie ever fight someone without veins or an esophagus? did he ever fight someone whose power is so far above human ability that the use of the word "humanoid" would be a joke? norrin could have opened his hand and shattered t'challa's ribcage like it was made of something a toothpick would use to pick its teeth. name dropping a famous fighter doesn't make your point valid.

Name dropped as a parallel. Gracie is a "Master" the triangle is a specialty. i.e. his triangle choke is most likely more devastating that\n mine.

"Humanoid" referring to his physique. i.e joint locks have nothing to do with veins or an esophagus.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Actually if you can keep your arm down you can defend a triangle choke.

Still, if you ran over a Gracie with a tank you'd crush their body. It's just too much. Same theme there with Surfer.

However, said tank can be halted by a properly positioned wrench, screw, or bolt.

he doesn't have joints either, champ. most submission holds i know of try to block the airway or an artery in the neck. gracie might do it differently, but i doubt mcduffie or pelletier put that much thought into it as to decide exactly which hold of the many out there they were picking.

a tank that can move faster than the speed of light cannot be stopped by any wrench, screw or bolt that cannot move that fast. mcduffie admitted the scene was PIS. there is no justification that holds up.

back to storm. you keep skirting the issue that storm is not at phoenix's level. just because phoenix was compared to storm at one point does not retroactively alter storm's power level every time phoenix gets more and more powerful. while storm may one day become that powerful, she is not currently. as you said, she only temporarily admits to having "transcended," a term we can't confirm to coincide with the same transcending jean or bobby went through as you can't derive a specific context from her speech. and when she did, she didn't do anything remotely on the level of phoenix, so you can't justifiably say she is phoenix's level.

all you can say is that claremont said it back then, and that if another writer decides to unfold on that, then she MIGHT be. until then, it's entirely up to the writer to decide what her potential and power are. she can't do it by herself, considering she's fictional.

Originally posted by Disappear
he doesn't have joints either, champ.

Really?!? (cuz i coulda sworn i saw 2 "Elbows" on that mufuka)

Originally posted by Disappear
most submission holds i know of try to block the airway or an artery in the neck.

Then there are your "Arm Bars", "Kimarras", "Ankle Locks", "Toe Locks", "Finger Locks", "S.T.F's", "Figure 4's", ect., ect., ect., ect.

Originally posted by Disappear a tank that can move faster than the speed of light cannot be stopped by any wrench, screw or bolt that cannot move that fast.]

If the screw was sentient (had a mind to stop said tank), developed a plan based on the situation, and somehow mannaged to hop onto the Tanks detatchable treds and rode "unseen" to the tank (never underestimate the elemant of surprise) then yes, it is extremely possible.

Originally posted by Disappear
all you can say is that claremont said it back then, and that if another writer decides to unfold on that, then she MIGHT be. until then, it's entirely up to the writer to decide what her potential and power are. she can't do it by herself, considering she's fictional. [/B]

Unfortunatly, when writen to potential, people that are'nt even fans complain (as we've seen with the recent Panther hate). I have no doubt that if Storm were writen to potential there would be a pickett line 5 miles long around the offices of marvel.

panther's not being written to potential these days. did you ever read priest's stuff? this doesn't even compare to how panther was several years ago. also, the element of surprise shouldn't really effect someone who sees time flash by by the nanosecond. mcduffie made it clear he'd toned silver surfer way down and t'challa way up to pull that off. but that's not the point of the thread.

storm hasn't been written to this alleged potential in years either, it's only been briefly referenced. i've already admitted i fully except her to be a confirmed omega one day, and would agree with that decision. but that doesn't change the fact that she is not near phoenix's level anymore. and until she's written that way again, there's no way of knowing IF it'll ever happen, or IF claremont's original ideas still apply.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty

Unfortunatly, when writen to potential, people that are'nt even fans complain (as we've seen with the recent Panther hate). I have no doubt that if Storm were writen to potential there would be a pickett line 5 miles long around the offices of marvel.

You damn right.

They can't even work out how her powers work OUTSIDE of earth-based weather phenomena.

Hell, some of them cant even work out how her powers work INSIDE weather based phenomena.

Storm IS the Goddess archetype--she wields the forces of nature.--Mother nature and the natural forces of the universe.

Claremont created the Phoenix for Jean to give her that Goddess edge thing. That '79 interview ws him basically saying the original Goddess is not displaced by Jean Grey/Phoenix force. They are equal.

One has the power fully realized in the Phoenix force, one is a "Three dimensional Goddess" LITERALLY. Just below the surface, she is mother nature incarnate.

Hell, look at me, trying to explain multi faceted personhood(not the disorder) to people who are too thicke to............oh never mind.
pitt_nutsw00tduster

Originally posted by Disappear

storm hasn't been written to this alleged potential in years either, it's only been briefly referenced. i've already admitted i fully except her to be a confirmed omega one day, and would agree with that decision. but that doesn't change the fact that she is not near phoenix's level anymore. and until she's written that way again, there's no way of knowing IF it'll ever happen, or IF claremont's original ideas still apply.

Fair (the key being "anymore" people) I just want to know WHY writers have ignored/neglected her development. That is, that they have been writing her down eversense Chris left the book.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
You damn right.

They can't even work out how her powers work OUTSIDE of earth-based weather phenomena.

Hell, some of them cant even work out how her powers work INSIDE weather based phenomena.

Storm IS the Goddess archetype--she wields the forces of nature.--Mother nature and the natural forces of the universe.

Claremont created the Phoenix for Jean to give her that Goddess edge thing. That '79 interview ws him basically saying the original Goddess is not displaced by Jean Grey/Phoenix force. They are equal.

One has the power fully realized in the Phoenix force, one is a "Three dimensional Goddess" LITERALLY. Just below the surface, she is mother nature incarnate.

Hell, look at me, trying to explain multi faceted personhood(not the disorder) to people who are too thicke to............oh never mind.
pitt_nutsw00tduster

You a'ight wit me Fam. 😄

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
You a'ight wit me Fam. 😄

😎

I hope Claremont starts writing for her again. I asked him tot upgrade her with EXTREMELY high durability. He told me:

"Dear Energy --

I appreciate that faith and confidence you place in me to convey such a request, but I'm afraid anything to do with Ororo is totally out of my hands. She's married to the Black Panther now and as I understand her position, anything that happens to her in the forseable future is subordinate to the needs and requirements of his life and title. I'm not even sure she has regular contact any longer with the X-Men.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Chris Claremont"

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
However, said tank can be halted by a properly positioned wrench, screw, or bolt.

The only thing that really sours the feat a little for me is the grunt Surfer makes. As I've said before, I think Surfer's a wuss and doesn't like to hurt people so it's perfectly reasonable that he'd let silly human jump on his back and play martial arts so long as he remains in one place so they can talk. And I do give credit to Panther for having the cojones to put Surfer in a friggen hammerlock, but that grunt...

when asked about how humanoid restraints apply to the surfer on his forum, mcduffie said:

Who says they do? Panther himself wasn't sure it would work and Surfer was more interested in what Panther was saying than his hold.

he also said that if people were upset about what happened last issue, wait until black panther does... something next issue.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
😆 shocklaughshocklaugh

Did you ever THINK that a writer has conceptualized characters many moths before they release it to YOU???shocklaugh

In late 1979 he may very well have had it in mind considering all the many avenues a writer has to go through to get a piece published.

Listen to the author AGAIN: In 1981 we have Roguestorm(Storm's parralel to Dark Phoenix) where she has evolved beyond ALL cmprehension. Then in 1983 we have Storm doing things comparable to DarkPhoenix.

Then recently in X-treme we have her making references to her ascension to Goddess-hood and how other mutants have the ability to do so, and also how she has experienced it and seen others do it.

Storm's true potential is just bubbling under the surface. She truned it down because her will is very powerful.

She WAS power at one point and was completely unlimited.

And you, again, have nothing to base that he was referring to Dark Phoenix, because she wasn't. He was referring to the green Phoenix. Because it said "Phoenix", not "Dark Phoenix". Post some proof that he was referring to something that hadn't even appeared in comics yet and you may have a point. Otherwise, it is only your speculations, and speculations don't count, idiot. Posting laughing smilies doesn't proof anything, I am not the one where who tries to put his GUESSES as PROOF. 🙄

And no. Storm has never been completely unlimited. Completely unlimited people don't have troubles stopping one thunderstorm. Even Thor was above her power as Roguestorm. And even if she had manipulated ALL THE STARS IN THE FREAKING GALAXY (insted of few million), it would still not put her even CLOSE to Phoenix level.

You have no tangible proof that she is Phoenix level. Her feats don't compare. You are speculating that Claremont was referring to something that wasn't appearing in the comics yet. You are wrong.

Just admit it and be done with it. We can keep doing this dance as long as you want, but until you have anything that would suggest that Storm's power is even a fraction of what Phoenix Force currently is, all it is going to result into is me kicking your ass in debate in ever way possible. Yet again.

But hey, if you are so sure of yourself, how about you post something that isn't:

A) Your own guess of what a writer is meaning.

or

B) A feat that doesn't come even close to Phoenix's feats.

or

C) Your own goddess hyperbole crap that doesn't relate into the discussion at all.

Storm isn't nothing compared to Phoenix. Simple as that.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And you, again, have nothing to base that he was referring to Dark Phoenix, because she wasn't. He was referring to the green Phoenix. Because it said "Phoenix", not "Dark Phoenix". Post some proof that he was referring to something that hadn't even appeared in comics yet and you may have a point. Otherwise, [b]it is only your speculations, and speculations don't count, idiot. Posting laughing smilies doesn't proof anything, I am not the one where who tries to put his GUESSES as PROOF. 🙄

And no. Storm has never been completely unlimited. Completely unlimited people don't have troubles stopping one thunderstorm. Even Thor was above her power as Roguestorm. And even if she had manipulated ALL THE STARS IN THE FREAKING GALAXY (insted of few million), it would still not put her even CLOSE to Phoenix level.

You have no tangible proof that she is Phoenix level. Her feats don't compare. You are speculating that Claremont was referring to something that wasn't appearing in the comics yet. You are wrong.

Just admit it and be done with it. We can keep doing this dance as long as you want, but until you have anything that would suggest that Storm's power is even a fraction of what Phoenix Force currently is, all it is going to result into is me kicking your ass in debate in ever way possible. Yet again.

But hey, if you are so sure of yourself, how about you post something that isn't:

A) Your own guess of what a writer is meaning.

or

B) A feat that doesn't come even close to Phoenix's feats.

or

C) Your own goddess hyperbole crap that doesn't relate into the discussion at all.

Storm isn't nothing compared to Phoenix. Simple as that. [/B]

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Listen to the author.

Remember he said "the bird effect" in that interview

"Her Power is a song within her"

Also....beyond HUMAN comprehension

"Her power SINGS within her"

"Evolved beyond ALL COMPREHENSION"

Originally posted by Rutog98
I would like to address this:

Storm holds herself back especially when working in a planatary atmosphere. When she went "punk", she let go of some her "blocks" and things that were difficult for her when she was "gentle" became much easier owing to her lack of restraint.

This is why when she was Rougestorm, she had such a difficult time stopping that storm she created. Colossus has brought her back to her moral core and she was working within those boundaries when she was trying to disperse that storm that she created as Rougestomr. She would not allow herself to ride roughshod over it. She forced herself to gently disperse it. She does this for the sake of the ecosystem. (However, sometimes she just speaks directly to the storm and commands it to disperse and it does instantly. lol)

Thor, on the other hand, does not have to be so cautious as his hammer does all the work and he does not. All he has to do is tap his hammer the prerequisite time or just will the hammer to do it and that little dohickey does it all.

Now, I did not say this, but there are stories where Ororo alters weather on a HUGE scale. For instance, even before she joined the X-Men, she dispersed a hemisphere-sized hurricane in "X-Men: The Hidden Years issue 7." She has altered weather on a continental scale more than once and globally as well.

Storm is reluctant to impose her will on natural hurricanes since that is the natural order of things. She could disperse them, of course, but it could trigger an equally devistating disaster.

DP in 1980 is SECOND TO THE CREATOR. All her feats don't mean shit. They are a mere reaffirmation of already stated powerset. Storm was compared to her directly before we see DP. Claremont OBVIOUSLY had DP in the works when he made that statement. late '79 to mid '80?? Don't u LOOOOVVE that timeframe?? 10 months?? Yea, that's about the timeframe for story arc saga to be written, penciled, colored, tweaked, edited, greenlighted, published etc.shocklaugh

Originally posted by 2damnloud

dustershocklaugh