Originally posted by 2damnloud
False does.
I know that part does.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
GG actually kinda does.
😬 Not really.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
You should actually QUOTE people entirely in context--Strawman.
Should I have quoted the part that I agreed with and didn't care about since I knew Swanky was joking?
Or should I have quoted "hmmmmmm"?
Neither of those puts your use of glitterly generality into context.
Attempting to reduce my argument to strawman is also strawman btw.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
All this once again notwithstanding that the CREATOR of Phoenix stated that Storm and Phoenix are equal in terms of RAW POWER.DEALw00teh
Originally posted by 2damnloud
He needs to outline every character and tell the exact reasons WHY they can attain Phoenix-level. First he needs to DEFINE "Phoenix level", and draw Parralels with "every character". I don't think he can, therfore that shit is FALSE.w00tehshocklaugh
Really, it'd be harder to explain why every character ever written can't be at Phoenix level than it would explain why they can. It's fiction, baby! It's all within normal parameters.
i think it's funny how you misused the term "strawman" when correcting someone who just corrected you for using words that don't apply. just seemed ironic.
also, there are several characters without abilities or oddities; unless by oddity you're referring to such trivial characteristics as name, or occupation, or minor talents. so that wasn't really an accurate statement.
shit. i'm becoming a condescending ass. whoo storm!
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That in of itself is out of context because Phoenix was not what she is today when that comparison was made, you know this. Why do you keep trying to sweep it under the carpet?
In 1979 CC said they were on par in terms of raw power. In 1980 he did Dark Phoenix. If we are to believe that 1982 interview, he actually basically said he MODELED Phoenix AFTER Storm.
The Interview was done in 1981 and published in 1982 in which CC makes no mention, and doesn't even allude to Jean/Phoenix being PAST Storm's power level. The interview was also done right around the EXACT time Roguestrom happened (1981). DarkPhoenix happened a year prior in 1980. Storm summons the power of Stars in 1983. Even AFTER the 1982 publication of the '81 interview, which is being called upon to say that JeanPhoenix is taken PAST Storm's level, we have Ororo doing Cosmic level feats on par with Dark Phoenix. Some of the EXACT SAME verbiage is used to parralel BOTH characters with reagard to RogueStorm and Dark Phoenix, and even when Ororo absorbs the Stars in te Galactic Core, it says she gains material and spiritual sustenance from each one. DP absorb a Star for Sustenance. The parralels and comparsions in the mind of the WRITER are UNDENIABLE.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Listen to the author.Remember he said "the bird effect" in that interview
"Her Power is a song within her"
Also....beyond HUMAN comprehension
"Her power SINGS within her"
"Evolved beyond ALL COMPREHENSION"
In X-treme issue 5, Thunderbird asked Storm is Rogue right about her beign a Goddess, she says "NOT YET". Storm also says all mutants have the ability to transcend their being(it may go unrealized though). She goes on to say that She's EXPEREINCED it. This is most likely Claremont's reference to RogueStorm where she had ULTIMATE, limitless power, yet she gave it up. She's says she's seen OTHERS transcend, no doubt she is talking about Jean.
I think when White Queen switched bodies with Storm, she found she could see the world as energy. Isn't this how she sort of helped Iceman realize his potential, or use his powers to that level by him looking at the world as moisture or heat??
Originally posted by Disappear
i think it's funny how you misused the term "strawman" when correcting someone who just corrected you for using words that don't apply. just seemed ironic.
Nope, it wasn't. He misquoted me and misrepresented what I was saying then proceeded to attack me.
"???" and this "😕 " make a difference.
What Swanky said is false anyway. He made a reference to PHOENIX. This does not = any given characters trascendant state.
Come correct or get blasted by the condescending ass himself.
sunfire could do the same thing with thermal energy. doesn't prove anything.
i think you've got some crazy fixation that doesn't let you comprehend hyperbole or dramatization; at least not in reference to storm. the phoenix is not what it was when claremont had that interview. claremont is not the sole writer of the phoenix, nor is he the undying word of marvel continuity. so, while that may have been true at the time, things have changed.
i have no doubt storm will eventually become a confirmed omega level mutant. of all the possibles out there, she's probably the one that makes the most sense. but to say she's currently on par with the phoenix is ludicrous and shows just how biased your viewpoint is.
Originally posted by Disappear
sunfire could do the same thing with thermal energy. doesn't prove anything.i think you've got some crazy fixation that doesn't let you comprehend hyperbole or dramatization; at least not in reference to storm. the phoenix is not what it was when claremont had that interview. claremont is not the sole writer of the phoenix, nor is he the undying word of marvel continuity. so, while that may have been true at the time, things have changed.
i have no doubt storm will eventually become a confirmed omega level mutant. of all the possibles out there, she's probably the one that makes the most sense. but to say she's currently on par with the phoenix is ludicrous and shows just how biased your viewpoint is.
The universe is purely electrical. Storm would have a MUUUUUCH greater range of power than Sunfire.
I did not say she was currently. She has the powerlevel though.
She even says she is not herslef. She can transcend, and HAS.
omega level isn't a matter of power level, per se. the oft-used example being elixir. certainly all omegas who don't eventually die, i.e. mr. m, would become incredibly powerful. but power's not the deciding factor, as can be pointed out in examples of scarlet witch, mad jim jaspers, etc.
also, saying all mutants can transcend is a thought that isn't aligned with the omega level doctrine. it's entirely possible she was using the term in a different sense, as NOT all mutants can "transcend" in the omega sense.
Originally posted by Disappear
omega level isn't a matter of power level, per se. the oft-used example being elixir. certainly all omegas who don't eventually die, i.e. mr. m, would become incredibly powerful. but power's not the deciding factor, as can be pointed out in examples of scarlet witch, mad jim jaspers, etc.also, saying all mutants can transcend is a thought that isn't aligned with the omega level doctrine. it's entirely possible she was using the term in a different sense, as NOT all mutants can "transcend" in the omega sense.
Omega-level mutant is a fictional designation for a certain powerful class of super-powered individuals in the Marvel Comics universe to indicate mutants with the ability (or potential) to transcend and exist beyond the boundaries of physical existence, as beings of pure thought. Immortality is also a possibility, but not a requirement. Vast psionic abilities, such as being able to control matter and energy on the sub-molecular scale, as well as having a body capable of withstanding such power levels without external help, also seem to be common factors.
Storm's damn near got that covered. Jus the physical existence part. She can and has transcended though.
wherever you got that info, double check. most of that is derivative of fanboy misconceptions and beyonder's specific discussion of jean.
as for a definition from the guy who invented the term, xavier's only ever said that omega level mutants have unlimited potential for growth in their powers. to paraphrase.
Originally posted by Disappear
also, there are several characters without abilities or oddities; unless by oddity you're referring to such trivial characteristics as name, or occupation, or minor talents. so that wasn't really an accurate statement.
It's more a point against being exciting about an attribute that can be attained by literally any character due to the nature of fiction and comic books in general.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
You mean me saying any character can become Phoenix level? It's easy. Comic books are just that lazy. You could say so and so had a traumatic event which lead to some half-assed reason why they've never shown any powers and/or why scans have never shown them to have more than normal physiology. Or you could take some forgotten artifact and give it ties to the Phoenix Force. Who's to say otherwise?It's more a point against being exciting about an attribute that can be attained by literally any character due to the nature of fiction and comic books in general.
At the same time, with all that bullshit in mind, why argue against my assertions??
You still haven't outlined how "all" characters, notwithstanding any outside influences, with only their original powersets, and in CONTINUITY can attain comparable levels with the Phoenix.
If you can't, your argument is moot.
the argument is that any character CAN, so long as someone decides to write it that way. abiding by the basic rules of fiction, in which a false reality exists at the whim of the writer, it makes sense. storm was at one point of a power level that rivaled the phoenix because a writer chose to make phoenix that level. writers have since magnified the importance, power and virtual omnipotence of the phoenix beyond that level, whereas storm hasn't changed much.
i believe that was the point. correct me if i'm wrong, big tuna.
Originally posted by Disappear
the argument is that any character CAN, so long as someone decides to write it that way. abiding by the basic rules of fiction, in which a false reality exists at the whim of the writer, it makes sense. storm was at one point of a power level that rivaled the phoenix because a writer chose to make phoenix that level. writers have since magnified the importance, power and virtual omnipotence of the phoenix beyond that level, whereas storm hasn't changed much.i believe that was the point. correct me if i'm wrong, big tuna.
A good writer wouldn't.
And again: "You still haven't outlined how "all" characters, notwithstanding any outside influences, with only their original powersets, and in CONTINUITY can attain comparable levels with the Phoenix."
The actual creator of the Phoenix is actually saying otherwise, yet all evidence is completely ignored.
"saying" is a misconception. said is more appropriate. claremont gets a lot of crap, but i'm sure he's got some sense left in him, and especially enough to not try to make that assertion again given the phenomenal changes that've happened to the phoenix force. what he said in the early eighties counts as canon then, but hasn't withstood the test of time. such is the nature of comic books.
at one point spider-man could take captain britain in an arm wrestling contest. that's no longer the case. originally, wolverine was going to be a spidey-level superhuman with a healing factor and clawed gloves. that's no longer the case. things like this happen all the time.
so is new x-men. jean held a universe in her hand. or a galaxy. really, makes little difference. the phoenix corps [a group of beings powerful enough to serve the phoenix without burning themselves out] was shown, and had a buttload of metaphysical conversations. they discussed killing universes like it was monday night football.
storm's never done anything like that. the concept that storm is on jean and/or the phoenix's level has been outdated for a while now.
