Originally posted by 2damnloud
DP in 1980 is SECOND TO THE CREATOR. All her feats don't mean shit. They are a mere reaffirmation of already stated powerset. Storm was compared to her directly before we see DP. Claremont OBVIOUSLY had DP in the works when he made that statement. late '79 to mid '80?? Don't u LOOOOVVE that timeframe?? 10 months?? Yea, that's about the timeframe for story arc saga to be written, penciled, colored, tweaked, edited, greenlighted, published etc.shocklaugh
You can post that bullshit as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that when she was talking about "Phoenix", she was talking about the Green Suited Phoenix, who, as much as you don't like it, HAD A LIMIT.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2629/magdrawslifeenergy8et.jpg
So, all Storm was equal was that Phoenix. Claremont was not referring to anything else. All you have is your guesses. I have the fact in PRINT, that Claremont was talking about "Phoenix". Not DARK Phoenix. Different incarnations. Different levels of power.
Storm is NOT equal to the freaking Phoenix Force. There is NOTHING in comics that suggests that. Storm has NO FEATS that are even comparable to Phoenix's feats, and until she does, all you have is hyperbole and speculation.
Sucks to be wrong, I know, but you should be used to it by this point, right?
And you obviously post too much hyperbole for Claremont to answer your questions in Comixfan forums...so I decided to ask him directly, without any of the riff-raff that is accompanied by your posts.
Do you consider Storm's power to be equal to the Phoenix Force as it is now?
Straight to the point. Let's see if he has time.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And you, again, have nothing to base that he was referring to[b] Dark Phoenix, because she wasn't. He was referring to the green Phoenix. Because it said "Phoenix", not "Dark Phoenix". Post some proof that he was referring to something that hadn't even appeared in comics yet and you may have a point. Otherwise, it is only your speculations, and speculations don't count, idiot (wow). Posting laughing smilies doesn't proof anything, I am not the one where who tries to put his GUESSES as PROOF. 🙄 (rolling eyes are much better)And no. Storm has never been completely unlimited (?) (see scans). Completely unlimited people don't have troubles stopping one thunderstorm (spiteful understatment of the year). Even Thor was above her power as Roguestorm (wrong enterpritation.take a closer read). And even if she had manipulated ALL THE STARS IN THE FREAKING GALAXY (insted of few million), it would still not put her even CLOSE to Phoenix level.
You have no tangible proof that she is Phoenix level. Her feats don't compare. You are speculating that Claremont was referring to something that wasn't appearing in the comics yet. You are wrong.
But hey, if you are so sure of yourself, how about you post something that isn't:
A) Your own guess of what a writer is meaning.
or
B) A feat that doesn't come even close to Phoenix's feats.
or
C) Your own goddess hyperbole crap that doesn't relate into the discussion at all.
Storm isn't nothing compared toPhoenix(?). Simple as that.
Behold,
a slow, angry, descent into contradiction
2damnloud's reply to DC's question on the comixfan forums:
Obviously Storm is not erasing Galaxies and whatnot, But I do believe there is a Strong parralel between the two with respect to Power level with Jean's being fully realized, while Ororo's power is just bubbling underneath (as cited above), coming out every now and then.
i dont know how you'd fully realize unlimited potential, as that seems contradictory, but at least we're getting an admission that storm is not as powerful as jean. and, again, whether or not she ever becomes that powerful is all dependent on the future writers; not on fan speculation.
Originally posted by Disappear
2damnloud's reply to DC's question on the comixfan forums:i dont know how you'd fully realize unlimited potential, as that seems contradictory, but at least we're getting an admission that storm is not as powerful as jean. and, again, whether or not she ever becomes that powerful is all dependent on the future writers; not on fan speculation.
It's a comic book.
And I said fully realizing her powerlevel as in being confronted by the full possibilities of the things she can do.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
It's a comic book.And I said fully realizing her powerlevel as in being confronted by the full possibilities of the things she can do.
and, as a comic book, it is a work of fiction. thus, whatever happens in it is dependent on the whim of the writers. for all any of us know, that power level could be retconned into a one-off in the next year. anything's possible, and thus, your argument is rather moot.
Originally posted by Disappear
and, as a comic book, it is a work of fiction. thus, whatever happens in it is dependent on the whim of the writers. for all any of us know, that power level could be retconned into a one-off in the next year. anything's possible, and thus, your argument is rather moot.
To retcon it you would have to retcon Storm herself or Jean.
Wouldn't be a smart move.
But, anything is possible.
As of NOW though, Storm and Jean-Phoenix are equal.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
I got you, man.He's differentiating between one Phoenix and another when the Watcher was CLEARLY talking about PHOENIX PERIOD when he said she was second the creator.
I love these people.
Exactly. You know something? Also in the 70s/80s, there was a "What If" involving the Jean/Phoenix thing where Phoenix did not die on the moon. Dark Phoenix ended up destroying the universe with a HUGE outburst of power.
Originally, the PF/Jean thing was a possession. The retcon made it so that the PF copied her body and placed the original in a bay in a cocoon. The PF has always had universe-destroying power. It was not something added on later.
Storm was always her equal. 😄
Originally posted by Disappear
as of right now, storm could one day maybe perhaps become the equal of jean-phoenix.
it was 1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)
The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...
"RB: Storm next...
Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.
RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?
Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.
Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."
Originally posted by Rutog98
Exactly. You know something? Also in the 70s/80s, there was a "What If" involving the Jean/Phoenix thing where Phoenix did not die on the moon. Dark Phoenix ended up destroying the universe with a HUGE outburst of power.Originally, the PF/Jean thing was a possession. The retcon made it so that the PF copied her body and placed the original in a bay in a cocoon. The PF has always had universe-destroying power. It was not something added on later.
Storm was always her equal. 😄
Exactly.
Desperation, manshocklaugh
jean, as the phoenix's primary avatar, held a universe in her hands in the white hot room. storm may have been compared to jean nearly thirty years ago, but she has not been able to keep up. as it stands, jean is far and away more powerful than storm in terms of operational power levels. whether storm is STILL as powerful [in terms of potential] as jean remains to be seen, and is a fact to be left up to the writers. that's how stories work.
Originally posted by Disappear
jean, as the phoenix's primary avatar, held a universe in her hands in the white hot room. storm may have been compared to jean nearly thirty years ago, but she has not been able to keep up. as it stands, jean is far and away more powerful than storm in terms of operational power levels. whether storm is STILL as powerful [in terms of potential] as jean remains to be seen, and is a fact to be left up to the writers. that's how stories work.
She was STILL second to the GOD nearly 30 years ago too. Hell, holding a universe should be NOTHING to her. Again, it's just the icing on the cake, as well as the bird effect.
The general gist of her ability/powers was compared to Storm.
Holding a universe etc. just gives her more meaning to people who don't understand abstract concepts like "second to the creator" by giving her vulgar displays of power that look "cool".
As it stands, according to the writer/creator of Phoenix, they are EQUAL.....APPROXIMATELY EQUAL.
