Originally posted by Rutog98
Nothing other than the fact that CC said the two women were equal and kept each other in check.
Yep.
Jean was basically given Phoenix to be equal with Storm.
Storm was, and always will be the Goddess archetype of the X-men, niether Jean nor Storm are displacing each other.
Storm's power level just needs to be recognized.
Originally posted by Disappear
2damnloud's reply to DC's question on the comixfan forums
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I find it incredibly funny how he wouldn't give me the forum name of where he was contacting Claremont, even though I didn't care to do anything, too lazy to do anything, and I already knew the forum name, because he didn't want me starting trouble over there or dragging some fight over there or something. Yet this is the second time someone asks a writer a question and he goes and starts spewing his collection of Storm editorials and theories on their forum like anybody wanted his input on the subject.
Oh shut up. 😆
See DarkCrawler's response for the reason why.
I presented the author with his work in enetirety and asked him to explain. Simple as THAT, not some half-assed loaded question laced with ambiguity.
You half-ass and twist the truth trying to find a loophole to minimize.
I don't need bitchy whinny ass comic fans(ironically, usually maleshocklaugh) maligning Claremont because their hierarchical, jerk-off fantasies of how comic should be written is all screwed up because a certain character is given a certain powerlevel.---Omg, Black Panther put SS in an armlock for a second.*whine whine whine*......... *goes to McDuffie board to whine whine whine.*
It was the same thing with McDuffie.
If Claremont just so happends to agree with me.....then what?? I'll tell you what: "Oh, It's not canon.......". Despite getting it straight from the author. It's the same way DarkCrawler tried to differentiate between DP and P when they are THE SAME. One is completely toned down by the Avatar, and one has competely insatialble appetite for power ad Destruction. The same with Roguestorm and Storm.
When McDuffie seemingly agreed with me about her having the ability to creat an H-Bomb, You, Swanky took the time to go over there. If he had stood by what he said, I'm sure you'd STILL be there creatively bitching.shocklaugh
claremont isn't the be-all-end-all of marvel, phoenix or storm continuity, kid. that's how comics work. something said in an interview is indeed NON-CANON, and it is up to that writer or future writers to make it so or leave it alone.
the only thing i've learned on these forums is that people are so willing to rely on circumstantial evidence and crybaby analogies when trying to bolster their favorite character's "respectability." if anything were to ever turn me off comics, that surely would be it.
bottom line: storm hasn't done ANYTHING that compares to feats of the most recent phoenix incarnations. YOU are the one who said she counted as a next-to-godly character because you heard it said about phoenix, and you heard storm referred to as approximately phoenix's equal. that is not canon. that won't be canon until it's on the page. your evidence is doctored and selectively chosen. your opinion is unendingly biased. and your repetitious posting of the same few scans hasn't proven your point.
if you want storm to TRULY be on phoenix's level, work your ass off, get some writing credentials, buddy up to some writer, find your way into the marvel offices, get assigned a project involving storm, and write it yourself. until then, leave it up to the actual writers and the actual STORIES.
Originally posted by Disappearleave it up to the actual writers and the actual STORIES.
I'm glad you said that.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
it was 1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...
"RB: Storm next...
Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.
RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?
Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.
Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Listen to the author.Remember he said "the bird effect" in that interview
"Her Power is a song within her"
Also....beyond HUMAN comprehension
"Her power SINGS within her"
"Evolved beyond ALL COMPREHENSION"
Phoenix's level circa 1980.
Originally posted by 2damnlouddustershocklaugh
Performing feats= shit when that is said about you.duster
Originally posted by Disappear
funny how i don't see "storm is the equivalent to the phoenix" in any of those scans.a writer's opinion only counts as canon when they get it into a comic. i don't see where that's a difficult concept to grasp.
The CREATOR of Phoenix's opinion>>>>what can be edited.
You gotta move past that and deal. 😎
Originally posted by Disappear
funny how i don't see "storm is the equivalent to the phoenix" in any of those scans.a writer's opinion only counts as canon when they get it into a comic. i don't see where that's a difficult concept to grasp.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
If Claremont just so happends to agree with me.....then what?? I'll tell you what: "Oh, It's not canon.......". Despite getting it straight from the author. shocklaugh
Me psychic much?? 🙄
If Claremont happens to agree with you, then that is confirmation of what is Claremont's opinion. Then we know what he meant in that interview. That is all I wanted to find out.
It's not still canon in COMICS, since we don't know what Grant Morrison's opinion is, or Greg Pak's opinion, or Scott Lobdell's opinion (etc. etc. etc.) are...all are people who have had a huge influence on raising the Phoenix's level to what it is today. Only things that are referred and confirmed in comics are canon in comics, and there is no comic that states that Storm is equal of Phoenix. As in comic book. Did I say "comic" enough for you to get what is canon in comics, so you understand that what writer says in interview doesn't affect everything that happens in comics thirty years after that?
And I do hope...as you seem to be a fan of Phoenix and Storm...that you DO know...that Chris Claremont isn't the only man who has written these two characters throughout their career in COMICS. 🤨
Oh yeah, just one example why posting hyperbole crap without feats doesn't prove anything...I have about three different mentions of Prince Namor being the most powerful mutant on planet. On the pages of canon COMIC, not some interview. Does this mean that he is more powerful then Storm? Then Magneto? Then Franklin Richards? Jim Jaspers? Scarlet Witch? Phoenix?
By your logic, it would.
By reasonable logic, it would be no. Because he has NEVER shown anything that would put him above those characters in power.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
If Claremont happens to agree with you, then that is confirmation of what is Claremont's opinion. Then we know what he meant in that interview. That is all I wanted to find out.It's not still canon in COMICS, since we don't know what Grant Morrison's opinion is, or Greg Pak's opinion, or Scott Lobdell's opinion (etc. etc. etc.) are...all are people who have had a huge influence on raising the Phoenix's level to what it is today. Only things that are referred and confirmed in comics are canon in comics, and there is no comic that states that Storm is equal of Phoenix. As in comic book. Did I say "comic" enough for you to get what is canon in comics, so you understand that what writer says [b]in interview
doesn't affect everything that happens in comics thirty years after that?And I do hope...as you seem to be a fan of Phoenix and Storm...that you DO know...that Chris Claremont isn't the only man who has written these two characters throughout their career in COMICS. 🤨
Oh yeah, just one example why posting hyperbole crap without feats doesn't prove anything...I have about three different mentions of Prince Namor being the most powerful mutant on planet. On the pages of canon COMIC, not some interview. Does this mean that he is more powerful then Storm? Then Magneto? Then Franklin Richards? Jim Jaspers? Scarlet Witch? Phoenix?
By your logic, it would.
By reasonable logic, it would be no. Because he has NEVER shown anything that would put him above those characters in power. [/B]
We know Namor=crap so that can't be anyhting BUT hyperbole.
He wasn't compared to another and so explicitly and descriptively stated as being approximately equal in raw power.
Phoenix/Storm were even when it was understood that Phoenix= second to the creator.
That's from the Creator of Phoenix. His opinion>>>>>anyone else's 🤣
Originally posted by 2damnloud
We know Namor=crap so that can't be anyhting BUT hyperbole.
Psht. We know everything Storm has ever done = crap compared to everything Phoenix has ever done, so that can't be nothing but hyperbole.
Your hyperbole ain't any less shittier then my hyperbole. 😉
Originally posted by 2damnloud
He wasn't compared to another and so explicitly and descriptively stated as being approximately equal in raw power.
He was compared to all mutants. He was stated to be strongest of all mutants. Mightiest of all mutants. The most powerful mutant on Earth. Explicitly and descriptively stated as being the top notch mutant on Earth.
Easily understandable sentences, aren't that? Nothing to dance around it.
And it even outdoes the interview, as it was mentioned in canon comic. By the writer of the comic, and by the characters in the comic.
Hell, his own creator has stated him to be the mightiest being in the planet in the early comics he was in. The statement holds all the cards.
Oh oh, how about all the times Hulk has been said to be the "strongest of them all" by his creator, characters in his comics, interviewed writers and such! This must mean that Hulk is automatically the strongest character in all comics!
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Phoenix/Storm were even when it was understood that Phoenix= second to the creator.
No, they were even in 1979 when Phoenix had not learned to use all her powers to the fullest and had met her limit multiple times and when the whole creator thing was not even mentioned (In fact, it would be mentioned...a YEAR after the interview).
Hell, the whole thing was retconned years after that, to not be even Jean Grey, but the Phoenix Force in disguise of Jean Grey. Claremont was talking about Jean in his interview, which means that at that time, it was intended to be Jean Grey. It's been retconned to not be. So, it would be pretty impossible for Storm to be equal to Jean Grey in 1979 of comics, since the Phoenix wasn't Jean Grey at all. 😱
Originally posted by 2damnloud
That's from the Creator of Phoenix. His opinion>>>>>anyone else's 🤣
Not if he hasn't written her for a loooooong time. 😄 💃
What, do you think what Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster said should be the highest authority on Superman? 😂
If one writer does something and all the other writers portray it differently, the majority wins. Claremont may be the creator but he doesn't own the rights in the character, or decides what is canon and what is not.
And what IS canon, is that Storm has never been portrayed to been close to Phoenix in power in the canon Marvel continuity.
You aren't going to win this debate. When all you have as "proof" is an 30 year old interview from an cancelled magazine that has never been part of official Marvel continuity and when the comics that are being discussed in the interview were retconned years after it, all hope is pretty much lost for you. 😆
Where do "What If's" live in the world of Marvel continutity.
Also, and again, Storm was never compared to Jean Grey
where as
The Phoenix (retcon or otherwise) was compared to Storm
(the phoenix posession was retconned because you can't have an original and beloved character go out like that) Also, Jean was really nothing special, they gave her the Phoenix (originally a "space force" posession) to make her character more interesting, and to bring the other original X-men (cyclops/Beast) back to front.
Also, as an artist and a writer i have the mutant ability to conceptualize characters and events far into the future (at least 8 issues in advance).
So, it's not uncommon to imagine a characters potential before the fans get to actually "see" it.
Originally posted by BlueDMighty
Where do "What If's" live in the world of Marvel continutity.Also, and again, Storm was never compared to [b]Jean Grey
where as
The Phoenix (retcon or otherwise) was compared to Storm
(the phoenix posession was retconned because you can't have an original and beloved character go out like that) Also, Jean was really nothing special, they gave her the Phoenix (originally a "space force" posession) to make her character more interesting, and to bring the other original X-men (cyclops/Beast) back to front.
Also, as an artist and a writer i have the mutant ability to conceptualize characters and events far into the future (at least 8 issues in advance).
So, it's not uncommon to imagine a characters potential before the fans get to actually "see" it. [/B]
Spot ON!
the phoenix wasn't retconned so a beloved character wouldn't "go out like that." the retcon was made so that the character who lived on [jean grey] wouldn't be a mass murderer [the phoenix.] it was touchier times back then, it seems, since more recently jean committed genocide on a race of beings who were evolutionary dead-ends.
so long as we're using interviews as canon, in an interview with sequential tart [sequentialtart.com] morrison clearly states that his is a brand new way of looking at the phoenix concept.
The second year is looser and stranger — lots of wild stuff based on some of my favorite Euro-comics, then school riots and a breakdown of discipline at Xavier's, a new way of looking at the 'Phoenix' concept and the X-Men vs. the Ultimate Enemy of all intelligent life.
so, what phoenix is currently capable of is clearly from the mind of grant morrison, and is NOT derivative of claremont's ideas. thus, the FACT that jean is so many times more powerful than storm is not bound to the original concept you propose of their "equality." thus, without any confirmation about storm growing in power, it's clear she's been left in the dust.
see, i can make wide, generalizing statements based off minor bits of an interview, too. attempt-to-disprove away!
I am still alive overhere. I am just in the midst of finals week. When these finals are done, it will be business as usual: Rutog joining 2Loud and the newbie, Blue, in putting you Storm naysayers in your places! 😄
The PF was always a universal force second to the Creator. What Morrison did simply displayed that power. Storm is on that level as when Storm was put on Phoenix's level, the Phoenix was second only to the Creator. End of story!
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Oh shut up. 😆See DarkCrawler's response for the reason why.
I presented the author with his work in enetirety and asked him to explain. Simple as THAT, not some half-assed loaded question laced with ambiguity.
You half-ass and twist the truth trying to find a loophole to minimize.
I don't need bitchy whinny ass comic fans(ironically, usually maleshocklaugh)
maligning Claremont because their hierarchical, jerk-off fantasies of how comic should be written is all screwed up because a certain character is given a certain powerlevel.---Omg, Black Panther put SS in an armlock for a second.*whine whine whine*......... *goes to McDuffie board to whine whine whine.*
If Claremont just so happends to agree with me.....then what?? I'll tell you what: "Oh, It's not canon.......". Despite getting it straight from the author.
It's the same way DarkCrawler tried to differentiate between DP and P when they are THE SAME. One is completely toned down by the Avatar, and one has competely insatialble appetite for power ad Destruction. The same with Roguestorm and Storm.
When McDuffie seemingly agreed with me about her having the ability to creat an H-Bomb, You, Swanky took the time to go over there. If he had stood by what he said, I'm sure you'd STILL be there creatively bitching.shocklaugh
You're partially right, which seems to happen a lot, no matter what he said, it was still his opinion on the subject. If he agreed it would be no better than if I asked Dark Crawler or Digi or Nataku and they agreed with me. You wouldn't listen to them because they're not famous. In spite of what you think, not everything the writer says is canon.
Originally posted by Rutog98
The PF was always a universal force second to the Creator. What Morrison did simply displayed that power. Storm is on that level as when Storm was put on Phoenix's level, the Phoenix was second only to the Creator. End of story!
