RAP - (It's only music)..So then what's your problem with it?

Originally posted by Mugen
dots
whos cares if you were literal or not, its still an ignorant statement, you havent even heard more than half of the rap music thats outs there, i havent even heard a half of it either, im not denying you your opinion but you are sorely wrong. I dont claim to know what real hip-hop is, but i do know SOME rap is not even scratching the surface, or how much rap music is out there that dosent have mainstream subject matter.

look, you dont know what your talking about it as simple as that.

✅

You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest

gangster would be rapping about the hard life, the struggle etc...

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The best Rap Song = The Fresh Prince of Bel-air themesong IMO

^funniest thing i read all day

Originally posted by -hh-
umm mc's nowadays on television and radio aren't even considered gangster...they are club rappers. they rap about clubs, drugs and bitches. i dont consider that gangster.

gangster would be rapping about the hard life, the struggle etc...

Originally posted by Mugen
which most of them dont live, they're bullshitting just to get money, they're living million dollar lifestyles, and they still wanna be thugs and drug dealers, sounds like alot of ish to me.

Originally posted by Mugen

you know whats really reptitive about you anti-rap rock fans, all your reasonings to support your ignorant claims, sound so alike its ridiculous

All they talk about is guns, and hoes, and money, it isnt music.....all they do is talk, where is the talent, they dont sing or play instruments, it isnt music,

I swear if you've heard one cry you've heard them all.

I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No.

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No.

how many mc's on television and radio even rap fast? the only one that comes to mind is twista or maybe chamillionare...

both i dont care for, but my point is there.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest

1 out of 100 rock bands sing about the same shit 😐

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

I helped found the Four Elements of Hip-Hop club in my high school, holding freestyle battles at our lunch breaks in the quad, putting up free walls for graff, having b-boy competions, and learning how to DJ.

I'm probably more hood than you ever were, and probably more hip-hop too.

Just 'cuz I found God, and believe in traditional values doesn't mean that I can't enjoy my rap music.

I always find it mad funny when I hear someone say "I'm more hood than you" because they listen to rap alot and do alot of things in the hip hop culture. On top of which you don't know me and what Ive been through.

First of all, I'm a 28 year old man but all i'm doing now is trying to get out the ghetto cause i've had enough of the "hood". And you're here admitting your more "hood" and with pride. Well you keep being hood while i' try to get the f*ck up out the ghetto, coolboy. It sucks here.

Sithsaber, you like Lloyd Banks and modern day Eminem; you're in no position to be telling anyone about hip hop.

You barely like any hip hop as it is. You should be hanging out with the TRL audience, requesting such hits as Ass like That and Poppin' Them Thangs. Or maybe you can cheer your beloved Snoop Dogg as he takes time out from collaborating with Justin Timberlake and The Pussycat Dolls to try and remind us how he's still "Da Boss", and not the all-but-faded man he once was.

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
1 out of 100 rock bands sing about the same shit 😐

Question: Can you back that stat up?

Answer: No.

Conclusion: Don't spout bs statistics.

-AC

Originally posted by who?-kid
Well, I guess we can consider it music. It's just not the most original, creative or innovative music ever...

Well...it's not is it?

As great as hip hop can be, it's far from the most original, creative or innovative genre.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well...it's not is it?

As great as hip hop can be, it's far from the most original, creative or innovative genre.

-AC

cuz i pretty much listen to any genre at this point, but hip hop still stays the one that stands out the most.

Originally posted by -hh-
i honestly dont believe that, but do you AC? explain to me.

cuz i pretty much listen to any genre at this point, but hip hop still stays the one that stands out the most.

You listening to any genre doesn't mean you've listened to enough of it.

I listen to more variants of other genres than you do, by leaps and bounds, and I also have a huge knowledge of hip hop, certainly enough to make a judgement.

There's not a hip hop artist out there that has the innovation or versatility of Mike Patton, System of a Down, Radiohead or say...Mindless Self Indulgence. None of them have the instrumental talent, for one thing. This isn't a knock to hip hop, I love hip hop, but I love it to the degree that it earns by love. I don't say things about it that aren't true. I love hip hop, but it is what it is. There is a limit on rhyming that simply doesn't exist if you're in a band with great musicians.

Instrumental talent means you can do a hell of a lot more with music than if you're just rhyming and ok at instruments. They have a lot more avenue to write and create, rhymers do not.

It standing out to you the most doesn't mean it's the most innovative, it's certainly not the most original.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You listening to any genre doesn't mean you've listened to enough of it.

I listen to more variants of other genres than you do, by leaps and bounds, and I also have a huge knowledge of hip hop, certainly enough to make a judgement.

There's not a hip hop artist out there that has the innovation or versatility of Mike Patton, System of a Down, Radiohead or say...Mindless Self Indulgence. None of them have the instrumental talent, for one thing. This isn't a knock to hip hop, I love hip hop, but I love it to the degree that it earns by love. I don't say things about it that aren't true. I love hip hop, but it is what it is. There is a limit on rhyming that simply doesn't exist if you're in a band with great musicians.

Instrumental talent means you can do a hell of a lot more with music than if you're just rhyming and ok at instruments. They have a lot more avenue to write and create, rhymers do not.

It standing out to you the most doesn't mean it's the most innovative, it's certainly not the most original.

-AC

Oh, well it's most definitely creative, especially with linguistics, which I can appreciate.

Again, I don't think it's the most creative genre. There's only so much you can do with words, HH, and you can do a hell of a lot more with a guitar. Much less a band of accomplished musicians and musical minds.

I mean, hip hop...real hip hop may have people who are very smart, very articulate, fine. It may have a myriad of talent ranging from the purely intelligent, to the comedic, to happy mediums. However, music will always take a backseat to the lyricism in that ONE genre, and even when MCs try to bring the music to the forefront, it's never as creative as a band.

The reason being; an MC can't flow over a double time drum solo or a crazy guitar solo. He needs something simple that he or she can rhyme to. It's like a metronome, it's not there to be creative.

Rock vocalists, metal vocalists, they can sing or scream over anything. It doesn't need to rhyme or be in time with a beat. Therefore there are many more combinations.

-AC

I think hip hop is a very original AND innovative genre...

I'm not knocking other genres or saying hip hop is more innovative/creative/whatever than anything else but it is all these things in it's own right.

First of all.. hip hop "instrumentals" if you will don't get their power off lengthy solos or experimentation, or off technical prowess in any kind. Hip hop beats get their power from the power of repetition.. finding one little thing that when repeated/looped has a hypnotic buildup to it that set's the atmosphere for a great song. This isn't a concept that wasn't explored before hip hop.. hell look at Kraftwerk.. but it wasn't explored to the extent that it is now until hip hop.

On top of that.. hip hop is innovative for the rapping alone. It may not seem as musical to you, or as powerful/artistic/whatever but building a genre on the basis of rhyming, not singing is innovation in itself. And rhyming does have a sort of musical element to it I think. Maybe not according to music theory, but if you listen to someone rhyme it does enhance the actual sound of the music doesn't it? Even without knowing what the rapper is saying, if they are rhyming well enough then it'll compliment the beat even nicer.

Hip hop is probably one of the furthest extremes away from traditional european classical music, so i don't see how it isn't original or innovative.

I listen to different genres too. Hell I love jazz, rock and funk in particular, and I consider all of these to be innovative, original, and creative genres. I just see no real reason why hip hop should be excluded from the group.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I think hip hop is a very original AND innovative genre...

Leonard Cohen was rhyming in such a way before any hip hop artist thought of doing so. Let's not even forget that Debbie Harry of Blondie also had a few tracks that were full of what would come to be known as original hip hop flavour. She's even hailed as a hip hop pioneer by the likes of Outkast.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'm not knocking other genres or saying hip hop is more innovative/creative/whatever than anything else but it is all these things in it's own right.

The argument isn't whether hip hop is creative and innovative or not, it's whether it's the most, and it's not.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
First of all.. hip hop "instrumentals" if you will don't get their power off lengthy solos or experimentation, or off technical prowess in any kind. Hip hop beats get their power from the power of repetition.. finding one little thing that when repeated/looped has a hypnotic buildup to it that set's the atmosphere for a great song. This isn't a concept that wasn't explored before hip hop.. hell look at Kraftwerk.. but it wasn't explored to the extent that it is now until hip hop.

I agree 100%, Afro.

They get their influence, power and effect from other avenues than playing and musicianship. However, that doesn't change the very proveable idea that a band will always have more avenue to be innovative and creative than a hip hop artist.

Dream Theater can do a lot more than Illogic, Can Ox or MF Doom.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
On top of that.. hip hop is innovative for the rapping alone. It may not seem as musical to you, or as powerful/artistic/whatever but building a genre on the basis of rhyming, not singing is innovation in itself. And rhyming does have a sort of musical element to it I think. Maybe not according to music theory, but if you listen to someone rhyme it does enhance the actual sound of the music doesn't it? Even without knowing what the rapper is saying, if they are rhyming well enough then it'll compliment the beat even nicer.

As I said, it was innovative when it started, because there was nothing like it. Nowadays rhyming as a primary vocal style is not innovative, it's well known and a very mainstream style of vocal.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Hip hop is probably one of the furthest extremes away from traditional european classical music, so i don't see how it isn't original or innovative.

It's not innovative anymore is it? If you're saying that there's no other genre when rhyming is primary and at the forefront, no there's not (not a music genre anyway.), I agree. The fact remains that overground or underground, it comes down to rhyming, that's what it comes down to. You might get innovative rhymers, innovative MCs, but BECAUSE hip hop is so focused on lyricism and delivery being it's main punch -- not the music -- it will never have the music world-shifting ability that actual musicians wield.

Bands work with music, with lyricism as an added bonus. Hip hop is the reverse.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I listen to different genres too. Hell I love jazz, rock and funk in particular, and I consider all of these to be innovative, original, and creative genres. I just see no real reason why hip hop should be excluded from the group.

Because no hip hop rhymer has done what Miles Davis did, or Coltrane, or Frank Zappa, or Prince.

Nor do they have the talent.

-AC

I'll admit I don't know who Leonard Cohen is, but by the time Blondie's song came out hip hoppers were already rapping in the underground, it just wasn't a mainstream thing yet.

When who-kid said "I guess it can be considered music, not the most creative or original music ever" I take it as the same as saying "Bush isn't exactly the brightest president ever." Not just that it's literally not the MOST innovative, but that it's not innovative in general. Maybe I was wrong, maybe not. Either way I didn't see anyone really defending it so posted about why I thought it was innovative/original/creative..

Dream Theater can never match the power of say an old school RZA produced hip hop track, if you ask me. I don't care about the avenues they take to make the music, I care about the sound that comes through my speakers and that alone. Music is about emotion to me.

Rhyming itself isn't innovative anymore, but rhyming has changed drastically over the years and people are still innovating rhyming today. Compare anything pre-86 to any Rakim song.. the compare that to Nas or GZA.. then compare that to early Eminem.. then compare that to MF Doom. There is always room for innovation in ANYTHING. There are tons of words in the English dictionary, add that on to newly developed slang words and it becomes clear that rhyming is no exception.

Hip hop may be all about lyricism to you, but to me the lyrics are only as good as they compliment the beat. Look at true classic hip hop songs, and then look at how important the beats actually are. Take Mobb Deep's Survival Of The Fittest for instance. It's not just dope because of the lyrics, or the flow, or the delivery. All these things are dope. But it's REALLY dope because of the depressed, bleek piano melody that sets the perfect tone for the hopeless, street struck rhymes that they spit over it. Without that beat, that song would be nothing IMO. This isn't an isolated example. Apply the same question to any classic song:

Wu Tang Clan- CREAM
Organized Konfusion - Stress
Cannibal Ox - Pigeon
Dr. Dre and Snoop - Nothin But a G Thang
Public Enemy - Fight The Power
Outkast - ATLiens
Ice Cube - When Will They Shoot?
Blackstar - Theives In The Night

All these songs are completely different from one another. Each one a different style of hip hop. Each one a championed classic by many hip hop fans. Each one has a seriously dope beat. Actually.. I can't even THINK of a great hip hop song with a wack beat. The music is very much important. I see how people could confuse this.. because hip hop instrumentals don't sound like anything special on their own. It has a minimalist approach to say the least. But it's very effective if you ask me.