RAP - (It's only music)..So then what's your problem with it?

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'll admit I don't know who Leonard Cohen is, but by the time Blondie's song came out hip hoppers were already rapping in the underground, it just wasn't a mainstream thing yet.

Precisely, and it's mainstream hip hop that gave birth to the likes of Wu-Tang Clan etc.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
When who-kid said "I guess it can be considered music, not the most creative or original music ever" I take it as the same as saying "Bush isn't exactly the brightest president ever." Not just that it's literally not the MOST innovative, but that it's not innovative in general. Maybe I was wrong, maybe not. Either way I didn't see anyone really defending it so posted about why I thought it was innovative/original/creative..

Yeah, it is creative, it can be innovative with language at least, but that was never the argument.

He said it's not the most creative, the most innovative or the MOST original. He never said it wasn't creative, innovative or original at all. If you think hip hop is the most innovative, original and creative genre, you have problems.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Dream Theater can never match the power of say an old school RZA produced hip hop track, if you ask me. I don't care about the avenues they take to make the music, I care about the sound that comes through my speakers and that alone. Music is about emotion to me.

That's not being discussed. 'Kid said it's not the MOST creative, original or innovative, so you're arguing that it is creative, original and innovative.

So what? Nobody is deny that it's those things, simply that it's not the most of each, and it's not.

No hip hop artist will be as innovative as Dream Theater because they simply don't have the instrumental musicianship. No hip hop artist will be as innovative as Patton, they simply don't have the broad genre-spanning experience. I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make.

Yes, it's creative and sometimes innovative. So? It's not the most.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Rhyming itself isn't innovative anymore, but rhyming has changed drastically over the years and people are still innovating rhyming today. Compare anything pre-86 to any Rakim song.. the compare that to Nas or GZA.. then compare that to early Eminem.. then compare that to MF Doom. There is always room for innovation in ANYTHING. There are tons of words in the English dictionary, add that on to newly developed slang words and it becomes clear that rhyming is no exception.

Yes, but it will never compare to an entire band of quality musicians tapping into the universe that is music. As in, versatility and innovation, not preference.

Musicians have a lot more to work with, and a vocal MC will never have that.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Hip hop may be all about lyricism to you, but to me the lyrics are only as good as they compliment the beat. Look at true classic hip hop songs, and then look at how important the beats actually are. Take Mobb Deep's Survival Of The Fittest for instance. It's not just dope because of the lyrics, or the flow, or the delivery. All these things are dope. But it's REALLY dope because of the depressed, bleek piano melody that sets the perfect tone for the hopeless, street struck rhymes that they spit over it. Without that beat, that song would be nothing IMO. This isn't an isolated example. Apply the same question to any classic song:

Wu Tang Clan- CREAM
Organized Konfusion - Stress
Cannibal Ox - Pigeon
Dr. Dre and Snoop - Nothin But a G Thang
Public Enemy - Fight The Power
Outkast - ATLiens
Ice Cube - When Will They Shoot?
Blackstar - Theives In The Night

All these songs are completely different from one another. Each one a different style of hip hop. Each one a championed classic by many hip hop fans. Each one has a seriously dope beat. Actually.. I can't even THINK of a great hip hop song with a wack beat. The music is very much important. I see how people could confuse this.. because hip hop instrumentals don't sound like anything special on their own. It has a minimalist approach to say the least. But it's very effective if you ask me.

What is your point? Hip hop beats will never be as innovative as quality musicianship on instruments. Yes, those songs are blinding. Yes, the beats are really good. So what? Nobody is arguing that.

If you believe that a hip hop MC or collective could ever match the innovation or creativity of the likes of Zappa, Prince etc, people who have mastered instruments and the avenues of musical expression (which far outnumber lyrical avenues), then I'd say you've got problems.

Hip hop can have great minimalistic beats, but that's because they compliment the rhyme and the rhyme compliments them. They are minimalistic because they simply cannot get further.

Danny Carey of Tool has a drum part played to a fibonacci time sequence. No MC could rhyme to that time successfully. That's why they have to compliment each other.

Two minimalist approaches combining to create a maximum effect.

The argument wasn't anything to do with whether it can be good, it was whether hip hop is the most innovative, original or creative genre. It's not. That's not to say it's NOT innovative, original or creative.

-AC

Like I said, the way who-kid worded it it DID sound as if he was saying it's not innovative, original or creative.

If i were to say "Yeah Bush is a president alright. He's not exactly the brightest of all time though, is he?" I wouldn't just be saying that there were presidents smarter than Bush. I'd basically be calling him a dumbass in a more elaborate way.

The fact that he preceeded the comment with "Well I GUESS we can call it music." didn't help either.

I didn't have a problem with it, I understood it perfectly.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sithsaber, you like Lloyd Banks and modern day Eminem; you're in no position to be telling anyone about hip hop.

What's right with Banks?

-AC

His mixtapes

G-G-G-G-G-G-G-Unit ❌

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I always find it mad funny when I hear someone say "I'm more hood than you" because they listen to rap alot and do alot of things in the hip hop culture. On top of which you don't know me and what Ive been through.

First of all, I'm a 28 year old man but all i'm doing now is trying to get out the ghetto cause i've had enough of the "hood". And you're here admitting your more "hood" and with pride. Well you keep being hood while i' try to get the f*ck up out the ghetto, coolboy. It sucks here.

Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

True, I don't know where you've been and what you've done, but I know who I am, and I'm probably more hood than you ever were.

Ehh, never mind.

It's beside the point, but as an elder of mine, you should have more wisdom and knowledge, and know that the word "conservative" isn't applicable only to middle-aged white men who you think must hate minorities, women, and rap music.

Nothing screams "hood" like a cartoony Darth Vader sig.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

Which included hip-hop.

Just because I'm a conservative doesn't change any of that.

Hanging out with people recently out of prison doesn't make you more "hood". It makes you slightly stupid.

I'm not even gonna try to justify myself to you two, I have no need to.

I know who I was and what I did.

And so what if I have a Darth Vader sig?

I don't live where I used to, more importantly how I used to, and have been a Christian for several years now.

The point was that him saying all conservatives are racist old bastards who hate rap is wrong:

Some of us are hip-hop fans, hip-hop participants even, and some have come from shitty ghetto lives.

I won't wast my time on you guys, since you seem to want to stick to definitions of whats "conservative" or "hood" to you, that have nothing to do with the lives that people are really living, where a conservative can be a hip-hop fan, and "hood" can be more than what you've seen in Friday.

Orale Pues, pinche Jotos!

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm not even gonna try to justify myself to you two, I have no need to.

I know who I was and what I did.

And so what if I have a Darth Vader sig?

I don't live where I used to, more importantly how I used to, and have been a Christian for several years now.

The point was that him saying all conservatives are racist old bastards who hate rap is wrong:

Some of us are hip-hop fans, hip-hop participants even, and some have come from shitty ghetto lives.

I won't wast my time on you guys, since you seem to want to stick to definitions of whats "conservative" or "hood" to you, that have nothing to do with the lives that people are really living, where a conservative can be a hip-hop fan, and "hood" can be more than what you've seen in Friday.

Orale Pues, pinche Jotos!

Shut up. Don't think your the only who who's grew up in the slums. Because you automatically profiled everyone who opposes you as living in suburbia, your a hypocrite.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
What's the deal with conservatives and rap.

They call rappers black trash yet they market their own company products using some type of Hip-Hop influence to promote their items.

Or they talk about the harsh messages in rap. What about the harsh messages in movies that are not only audible but visual as well. Crazy violence. And it last 1 and a half hours of it. rather than the 4 min in song that seems to get more attention. On top of which, a whole rap album isn't even as long as a movie. (i think.)

But like movies, I listen to rap for the entertainment it offers.

But I'd like to know what's your problem with it (If you hate rap music)

Some of it's okay, some of it's noise. I can't "hear" rap.

Originally posted by Himo
Shut up. Don't think your the only who who's grew up in the slums. Because you automatically profiled everyone who opposes you as living in suburbia, your a hypocrite.

you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said you're from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said your from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

He might look pretty stupid, but you used "your" instead of "you're", so....lets call it a draw.

😗

Originally posted by sithsaber408
you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said you're from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

No, you shut up.

By automatically believing your more hood than everyone else.

Point?

Never said all. Again, your profiling. Never said you weren't from the hood.

Not really.

OK.

You win.

All conservatives hate rap.

I'm a hypocrite who thinks everbody who opposes me is from suburbia.

Belief in God and hip-hop always have and will be 2 seperate things.

All rappers are pro-gay, pro-abortion liberals.

Chingy is the shit.

Wait...

😕

Originally posted by sithsaber408
OK.

You win.

All conservatives hate rap.

I'm a hypocrite who thinks everbody who opposes me is from suburbia.

Belief in God and hip-hop always have and will be 2 seperate things.

All rappers are pro-gay, pro-abortion liberals.

Chingy is the shit.

Wait...

😕

OK

OK

No

No

No

Don't.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

True, I don't know where you've been and what you've done, but I know who I am, and I'm probably more hood than you ever were.

Ehh, never mind.

It's beside the point, but as an elder of mine, you should have more wisdom and knowledge, and know that the word "conservative" isn't applicable only to middle-aged white men who you think must hate minorities, women, and rap music.

wickedph