What's wrong with being Liberal?

Originally posted by PVS
[B]my translator is dead on. you hold contempt for unskilled laborers.your every post STINKS of it.

No, no I don't. My best friend mows lawns for a living and I wouldn't change that for him. He went from making 50k a year and chose to mow lawns for less money and he doesn't complain or whine or say give me more money but he does work alot of hours. Once again your translation is ass PVS and thats probably what your smelling.

avoiding my points will not alter that. you feel that a houshold of 2 married unskilled laborers should not have the means to raise a family. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.....but not for them....they CHOSE to make less than me so let them eat cake.

Most of your points were directed at Dr Zais posts not mine I just picked what I wanted to respond to. Once again since you just go for attack mode I'm assuming here that you mean a 40 hour work week, is that what you're saying here? That two people have the right to earn minimum wage and work 40 hours to have a specific standard you feel is fair for them?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
So sitting in boring meetings and sipping expensive coffee all day while sitting in a plush office on the 80th floor of some NY skyscrapper is proportionate to moping floors in a dive cafe? One earns over a 100k a year and the other has to work 80 hours a week just keep his home?

Not that all people who sit in the office haven't gotten there through hard work, but what is the guy moping the floor doing? I think we all deserve to at least be able to keep our heads above water. And that's what so many conservatives take issue with: the word "deserve".

I also think that every person deserves the chance to live and of course improve their situation, what they do not deserve though is getting money from other citizens that they are not bringing back in through their work...that is just unreasonable and unfair.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

The poverty level is a calculated absolute value determined by the 3 x the cost of an adequate diet. So basically food for 3 people. Sucks to be a mother of 3.

That's not how it is calculated in the EU I believe. I think everyone that is below 70% of the average income in Germany is considered poor...and lets face it, that's a shit system.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's not how it is calculated in the EU I believe. I think everyone that is below 70% of the average income in Germany is considered poor...and lets face it, that's a shit system.

Originally posted by Soleran
No, no I don't. My best friend mows lawns for a living and I wouldn't change that for him. He went from making 50k a year and chose to mow lawns for less money and he doesn't complain or whine or say give me more money but he does work alot of hours. Once again your translation is ass PVS and thats probably what your smelling.

MY GOD!!!! thanks for that anecdotal evidence about your friend who chose to mow lawns and thats all we know about him. once i find out the relevancy of it im sure ill feel totally wrong and take it all back.

Originally posted by Soleran
is that what you're saying here? That two people have the right to earn minimum wage and work 40 hours to have a specific standard you feel is fair for them?

rephrase: two people have the right to earn a specific standard of living in exchange for working a full time week. this standard of living should enable them to raise a family. of coarse that is subjective, so lets figure a 2-child household.
i havent even addressed single parents, but lets just assume we live in a perfect world where there is no divorce and take it from there: in this perfect world minimum wage for 2 fulltime workers is still sub-standard. how is this fair? because your rich pampered friend can just casually decide that all that money is just too stressful to make, so he'll just cut lawns and deliver papers?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not one to defend American systems... so meh.

I meant the EU system, I am not sure how the other Systems work, where did you get the system from you referred to?

Originally posted by Soleran
No, no I don't. My best friend mows lawns for a living and I wouldn't change that for him. He went from making 50k a year and chose to mow lawns for less money and he doesn't complain or whine or say give me more money but he does work alot of hours. Once again your translation is ass PVS and thats probably what your smelling.

the problem is many people don't have the option of getting paid 50k a year and have to work at the minimum wage. it's not like they choose this for themselves.

Originally posted by Rapscallion
the problem is many people don't have the option of getting paid 50k a year and have to work at the minimum wage. it's not like they choose this for themselves.

If they don't have the option of making 50k they are probably just not able to produce anything worth 50k.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I meant the EU system, I am not sure how the other Systems work, where did you get the system from you referred to?

More U.S. poverty thresholds.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh04.html

Originally posted by PVS
MY GOD!!!! thanks for that anecdotal evidence about your friend who chose to mow lawns and thats all we know about him. once i find out the relevancy of it im sure ill feel totally wrong and take it all back.

No problem, I figured you'd get fired up about that, it's a freebie.

rephrase: two people have the right to earn a specific standard of living in exchange for working a full time week. this standard of living should enable them to raise a family. of coarse that is subjective, so lets figure a 2-child household.
i havent even addressed single parents, but lets just assume we live in a perfect world where there is no divorce and take it from there: in this perfect world minimum wage for 2 fulltime workers is still sub-standard. how is this fair? because your rich pampered friend can just casually decide that all that money is just to stressful to make, so he'll just cut lawns and deliver papers?

Lets say that 2 minimum wage earners decide they want a family, is it everyone's descision to up their wages based on the two individual lifestyles? Sure and lets also throw in fun time pay for the kids as well since you feel we should subsidize people's life choices!

How about this 5.15*40=206
Overtime 7.73*40=309
total now equals 515 a week which is 24,720 which is above even the line you chose for a managable living income. Now double that for two folks working 80 hours a week.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If they don't have the option of making 50k they are probably just not able to produce anything worth 50k.

thats fine. but the point is that anecdotal evidence about some anonymous dude who decides that all this work is just too much is worthless. for all we know he could be single and living with his parents. its useless to the discussion.

The only liberals that I have a dislike for are the ones who blame others for their problems instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. The overzealous ones are irritating, too. Of course both sides have these types of people, but I seem to know more liberals who are like this.

When I want to have a rational conversation I usually end up talking to someone who is conservative, don't know why that is.

I still do not know for sure which side of the fence I am on. Some of my views are conservative (criminal justice). Some of my views are liberal (poverty).

~ Kryzula

Originally posted by Bardock42
I also think that every person deserves the chance to live and of course improve their situation, what they do not deserve though is getting money from other citizens that they are not bringing back in through their work...that is just unreasonable and unfair.

I don't disagree. There's no excuse for some woman who shits out a new kid every nine months to get an up in their government aid and then all ten of her kids still go without. The only issue I have is that the conservative agenda seems to place those who are in need and deserve help in the same category as the people who abuse the system for cigarette money and heroine, trading their food stamps for $.50 on the dollar for cigarette and liquor money. Look at the usual suspects in this thread that protest against raising the minimum wage. They're typically the same people who argue that everyone in the ghetto should be cut off, that everyone in the ghetto is a crack smoking leech on the governments ***. They operate under this impression that hard work and determination will get you everything you want in this country.

chose to mow lawns for less money

? Why?

Originally posted by Soleran

How about this 5.15*40=206
Overtime 7.73*40=309
total now equals 515 a week which is 24,720 which is above even the line you chose for a managable living income.

figures dont lie

...but liars figure.

to assume payed overtime just to skew your figures is just asinine.

now its time for roughly estimated reality:

5.05*40hours*52weeks=aprox 10,000
take out taxes and bring that down to....you know what? ill be obnoxiosly optimistic like you and say 8500. *2 for double income=17,000 take home

Originally posted by Soleran
No problem, I figured you'd get fired up about that, it's a freebie.

Lets say that 2 minimum wage earners decide they want a family, is it everyone's descision to up their wages based on the two individual lifestyles? Sure and lets also throw in fun time pay for the kids as well since you feel we should subsidize people's life choices!

How about this 5.15*40=206
Overtime 7.73*40=309
total now equals 515 a week which is 24,720 which is above even the line you chose for a managable living income. Now double that for two folks working 80 hours a week.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why are you assuming they're going to get paid overtime on minimum wage? 🤨

exactly

Originally posted by Bardock42
If they don't have the option of making 50k they are probably just not able to produce anything worth 50k.

they probably could produce something worth 50k if they had the option, but they don't. besides, most people don't produce anything worth 50k jsut by themself even when they are paid that much. and how do you determine how much a product cost? or how much t contributes to those how use it.

desperation

Originally posted by PVS
figures dont lie
...but liars figure.

to assume payed overtime just to skew your figures is just asinine.

now its time for roughly estimated reality:

5.05*40hours*52weeks=aprox 10,000
take out taxes and bring that down to....you know what? ill be obnoxiosly optimistic like you and say 8500. *2 for double income=17,000 take home

Even if I don't assume overtime so far your total assumption is that everyone for some reason deserves the right to a 40 hour work week with a level of pay that should give them a level of comfort you feel is fair (which you never said what level of comfort is fair.) That if someone wants to have kids or should they have kids then all of a sudden everyone around them should reconfigure what is "fair" since now they have another mouth to feed, etc. etc. etc. You have a great idea of what you feel is fair and right and good and an overzealous attitiude that belies your message.

As far as gov't subsidizing these types of situations I am all for it! Keep it in place just help the folks who need it also create a plan of action to change where they will be tomorrow. Everyone deserves a chance or two by you , me and the gov't. The folks that sit down and don't change don't deserve the help over and over again.

Whenever you took your job PVS and they offered you the pay did they sit down and give you your monthly ajusted gross income? No, they don't know your tax's and the folks that make that little money don't pay much and get most if not all of it back so your numbers are ass as well if you want to play detail man.

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
This scripture passage doesn't necessarily imply the implementation of a welfare state or nationalized health care. Sorry.

This scripture, like all scriptures, all virtually useless because Christians like you will only use the quotes that are convienent for themselves and ignore anything that contradicts thier own agenda.

If Jesus said that we all must be treated the same, then that also means we all must have equal share of necessities, and that no one person should have so much more than another....

But since that goes directly against the Conservative ideal, that idea of swept under the rug... 🙄

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
Wow. "As long as someone suffers..."That's a pretty demanding standard. I guess every system is doomed to failure, then.

Almost every system is inadequate is the point. In Switzerland and some parts of the Netherlands every citizen there has a livable situation...no one is poor. In Australia, everyone can get healthcare for free despite whatever money they make. In Cuba education and schooling is free.

Now...United States has more money than all of those nations combined...yet we still have a large number of impoverous and homeless citizens?

Something is fkn wrong....and for you to deny it makes you even more hypocritical and full of sh*t than I already imagined you to be.

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
The treasury might have enough to provide nationalized care, but at what cost? A big one. You might think of this as being a free government entitlement, but it ain't. We'll all pay for it...out the ass. And there's no guarantee the overall service won't be worse. The current system can certainly be worked on but having the government take it over, doesn't seem promising to me.

One word.....

BULL SHIT.........

At what cost ? Their own money perhaps? Our own money perhaps ? 60% of this nations wealth is owned by the top 20% of citizens, most of whom developed this wealth through the inheritance that derived from slave labor.

What does that mean ? That means the other 40% of United States wealth is split among 80% of the rest of American Citizens.....talk about extemes......talk about the potential and cause for much conflict.....

Some families in this country inherit more money than they could possibly spend in thier own lifetimes.....

United States treasury holds enough money to last for ten generations even if we ALL stopped working today.....we are a fkn rich ass country, yet we have poverty !!! We can't even feed everyone or supply everyone in this nation with the basic necessities, even though countries of lesser wealth can !

That's pathetic 👇

It will cost us nothing...... ❌

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
Provide food? Lord Urizen, what other service would you like the government to perform for you? Wipe your ass? Refill your Pez dispenser? Your post doesn't exactly express confidence in normal, everyday people's ability to take care of themselves. One might even say it borders on condescension...

How the f*ck can you equate supplying basic necessities like Food, with superficial desires such as "wiping your ass" ????

You truly are a twisted, insensitive, and unrealistic person !

"Condescension" ????? 🤨 I don't think the homeless and those who lack food in this country give a f*ck about this....I think they'd rather get decent and continuous supplies of FOOD, rather than pick nutrition out of the ****ing garbage cans !

United States has MORE FOOD than we know what to do with, yet food gets wasted every day, AND there are still enormous amounts of people who can't afford to even feed themselves.

What fkn country do you live in ? If you live in U.S.A. then you're either secluded in your little Catholic Fantasy World, or you're just fkn BLIND.....

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
"Fair share?" What fair share would you be referring to?...the part you didn't earn in the marketplace, or the part you didn't risk any of your own capital to build into a successful enterprise?

Don't fkn talk to me about earnings. The top Protestant Elite inheritted thier wealth through Inherittance from Profit of Slave Labor, they didn't fkn "earn" it you jackass. Those are the top 20% of people who own 60% of this nation's wealth. That's fkn absurd that the rest of us have to scrabble over what's left....

Hence, there is NO FAIR SHARE.......laborers don't even make livable wages in this country.....wtf is up with that ?