Cin Drallig VS Darth Maul

Started by Council#137 pages

Ah. Yes. I agree. If the greater is Cin 😖hifty:

Well Obi-Wan improved a great deal from AOTC to ROTS. I would say that perhaps somewhere between is where Drallig because I doubt his Soresu is equal to Kenobi's. But I still think Maul's quickness and prowess in Juyo will penetrate whatever form Drallig uses.

The closest EU thing that features Kenobi to 1/2 way between AOTC and ROTS is Star Wars Republic 60: Hate and Fear, which takes palce approx. 16 months after AOTC (18 months would be Kenobi 1/2 way between AOTC and ROTS) and in it Kenobi is definately strong but only about on par with Asajj, if that, and seems to still be quite a ways away from being able to beat EU Grievous. Seriously, once I made a thread that was Cestus deception Obi-Wan (12 months after AOTC) vs. ROTS Grievous and everybody thought grievous would win and some of them even thought Grievous'd pwn and EU grievous is alot stornegr than ROTS Grievous. I honestly can't see Kenobi being storng enough to beat EU grievous till at least Dark Rendezvous which takes place 30 months after AOTC (6 before ROTS). So Cin's Soresu has to be close to ROTS kenobi's if (and only IF) Soresu is the reason that Cin can beat Grievous.
But Cin was killed with one arm! That means while crushing Bene he slashed Drallig's shoulder and watched the Jedi Master die.

According to who/what? We never see Cin die, unless it's in the ROTS video game, which has Anakin kill Mace which is total bullshit.
And the way the Toying Dooku fought in AOTC, I would say Maul can match up to that. Now I am assuming that Cin's Makashi would be slightly lesser than Toying Dooku's Makashi.

Dooku toyed? It's debatable whether or not he toyed with Kenobi but he didn't toy with anybody else, and I doubt he even toyed with Kenobi. Just cause he taunetd him doesn't mean that he was toying with him.
Man, if there was only a poll. The one with the highest votes wins. If it only was so simple.

Not necessairly. In the Sidious vs. Anakin thread Anakin has more votes, does that mean he wins? I doubt Lucas would agree with those results, he seems to think just Yoda and Mace can compete with Sidious in ROTS. Polls show what most people think but are not always accurate.

Wasn't this "Cin can beat Grievous" only Dooku's thoughts? His opinion? He said he needed fear and all that to win over the greatest of the jedi, and Cin was one of the greatest jedi, so maybe he just thought he wouldn't win under normal circomstances? I mean, he didn't list Anakin to beat Grievous, but we sure know that Anakin is better than Cin, by alot....

Originally posted by kamikz
Wasn't this "Cin can beat Grievous" only Dooku's thoughts? His opinion? He said he needed fear and all that to win over the greatest of the jedi, and Cin was one of the greatest jedi, so maybe he just thought he wouldn't win under normal circomstances? I mean, he didn't list Anakin to beat Grievous, but we sure know that Anakin is better than Cin, by alot....

Dooku said "Power moves worked well for you when you went up against the Jedi on Hypori (Clone Wars Microseries Chapter 20-21) but I pity you should you go up against any of the Council members." Any of them? So then Saesee, Agen, Ki-Adi or Shaak Ti (the last two Grievous ahs already beat before) can beat Grievous? I doubt it. But, getting more specific, Dooku asks "Need I demonstrate the powers of Mace Windu or Obi-Wan Kenobi? Cin Drallig or, starts help you, Yoda?" And don't remember anything about fear, I heard something like he didn't do as well against Obi-Wan in ROTS cause he Kenobi wasn't afraid of him. So unless Dooku was wrong about Cin being able to beat Grievous, which I doubt. As for Anakin, sure he could beat grievous but who ever says Dooku named every single Jedi that could beat Grievous? Cause I'm pretty sure Luminara Unduli could take him, too, but Dooku hates Anakin, he's not about to name him to repriment Grievous. And I really doubt Anakin is alot betetr than Cin, where did you ever get that impression? And don't say cause he beats him using one hand in ROTS cause we don't know what could have happened during their duel.

I didn't say Council masters, I said "greatest of the jedi", which not all council jedi masters are. Cin is certainley in the top 10 jedi in the order, Ki-Adi, Saeese and Agen ain't.

And are we really going to trust Dooku with that much? He is not a canon source, whether he trained him or not. He can't know everything, and he might belive something like that, doesn't make it true. And where in "need I demonstrate the power of..." is it mentioned that they can beat Grievous? He warned him of their power, nothing else, unless there is more to it than that...

Well since he for example took out Dooku, who was once the second greatest jedi duellist (or THE greatest) in the order, or that he did indeed take out Cin in the temple. Yes we don't know how the fight really went, but we do know that either way he died. From what I saw, he was fighting 2 jedi at once, if not more. He had to hold Cin at bay with one hand and even killed him, even if the place had many clones in it, there were pretty many jedi as well. And I thought Luke saw how he killed him in the holocron..... (Don't remember very well though)

Not top in the Order, Saesee and Agen? Are you basing this on their crap performance in ROTS? Lucas just wanted to get the fight over with and make Sidious seem more powerful. Anyway, in the book, Saesee was distracted reading Palaptine's mind, and Agen was considered "one of the finest fighters the Order every produced" or something along those lines. Anyway, in the Clone Wars Comics 6, they did quite well against those Bounty Hunters.

Well I wouldn't put either of them in the top 10 list, would you? Whatever the case, it doesn't really matter though...

I guess it doesn't matter, cause it's off topic, but for the time period, yes I would put them up there.

Yeah, we have different opinions, I wouldn't put them in the top 10. But whatever... 😛

Agreed. We all have different opinions. Yes.... 😐

😛

No, my opinion is above everyones. Obey... 😐 🥷

The word "Obey" is not in my oh-so-limited vocabulary 😐

.......... Shut up! 😛

But seriousley, where you mocking my spelling? It's spelled "obey" y'know... 😛

Originally posted by kamikz
.......... Shut up! 😛

But seriousley, where you mocking my spelling? It's spelled "obey" y'know... 😛

..... aye sir 😐

Yes, yes I was mocking your spelling leftright

Oh the nerve... 😛

Indeed 😖hifty:

Dooku said "Power moves worked well for you when you went up against the Jedi on Hypori (Clone Wars Microseries Chapter 20-21) but I pity you should you go up against any of the Council members." Any of them? So then Saesee, Agen, Ki-Adi or Shaak Ti (the last two Grievous ahs already beat before) can beat Grievous? I doubt it. But, getting more specific, Dooku asks "Need I demonstrate the powers of Mace Windu or Obi-Wan Kenobi? Cin Drallig or, starts help you, Yoda?" And don't remember anything about fear, I heard something like he didn't do as well against Obi-Wan in ROTS cause he Kenobi wasn't afraid of him. So unless Dooku was wrong about Cin being able to beat Grievous, which I doubt. As for Anakin, sure he could beat grievous but who ever says Dooku named every single Jedi that could beat Grievous? Cause I'm pretty sure Luminara Unduli could take him, too, but Dooku hates Anakin, he's not about to name him to repriment Grievous. And I really doubt Anakin is alot betetr than Cin, where did you ever get that impression? And don't say cause he beats him using one hand in ROTS cause we don't know what could have happened during their duel

Okay, so I watched the ROTS movie where Obi-Wan sees the hologram where Anakin falls to the Dark Side. I paused and watched scene by scene, replaying it several times. Anakin uses one hand to block Bene and Cin and then he grabs Bene's throat, kills her, while fighting Cin with one hand. Now I would expect Cin to do something in the four seconds they dueled, but what they portrayed in that small sequence was Cin just hit Anakin's saber while Anakin calmly slapped him away.

I can probably understand why Cin gets killed with one-hand. Now, this may be an understatement to Cin's powers, but he can't be much better, otherwise he's being very underated. Nick Gillard himself said his character in Star Wars is far weaker than what he should be.

Plus, I don't think Maul can get killed with one hand. In addition, how credible is Dooku as a source? EU Grievous nearly stalemated Mace Windu with Vapaad and was only bested by the supreme master of Soresu, I doubt Cin is on their level. I believe Dooku was wrong. And finally I don't think Qui-Gon Jinn and his skilled apprentice can lose to Cin Drallig.

Cin is certainley in the top 10 jedi in the order, Ki-Adi, Saeese and Agen ain't.

ROTS novel makes it seem as if Agen's saber skills are on the same level as Mace's. I don't know if he's on the top 10 but he is one of the strongest Jedi in ROTS, and I think Mundi's storng, too, not in the top 10 but near the top 10. Saesee is also above avg.
And are we really going to trust Dooku with that much?

Yes, as otherwise we have no info on Cin we have to trust Dooku.
He is not a canon source, whether he trained him or not. He can't know everything, and he might belive something like that, doesn't make it true. And where in "need I demonstrate the power of..." is it mentioned that they can beat Grievous? He warned him of their power, nothing else, unless there is more to it than that...

Dooku may not be right, but I'd say the chances of him being right are great. And was clearly indicating that those Jedi could beat Grievous.
Well since he for example took out Dooku, who was once the second greatest jedi duellist (or THE greatest) in the order, or that he did indeed take out Cin in the temple.

Nope, second greatest duelist.
Yes we don't know how the fight really went, but we do know that either way he died. From what I saw, he was fighting 2 jedi at once, if not more. He had to hold Cin at bay with one hand and even killed him, even if the place had many clones in it, there were pretty many jedi as well. And I thought Luke saw how he killed him in the holocron..... (Don't remember very well though)

He was holding off Bene, some measly Padawan. while fighting Cin, it's not like he was fighting anotehr Jedi Master or Knight at the same time. And I doubt there were almost as many jedi as there were Clones, in TPM there's 10,000 Jedi, by ROTS I'd be surprised, very surprised if there were 5,000 left, and pretty much just the Padawans were at the Temple with some teachers like Cin and Iron Hand and then there was Shaak Ti, a few Masters and Knights but really probably 99% of the Jedi in the Temple were Padawans or Younglings and there were probably only like a few hundred of them. I mean, only the really Young Padawans would have been there as most of the Padawans would be fighting in the war, too, so even if there were a thousand Padawans who were all 13 years of age or younger and maybe 50 Masters and Knights Combined I doubt the Clones would have much trouble. They definately could have helped Anakin take out Cin. Ad for the hologram, I have no idea.

Okay, so I watched the ROTS movie where Obi-Wan sees the hologram where Anakin falls to the Dark Side. I paused and watched scene by scene, replaying it several times. Anakin uses one hand to block Bene and Cin and then he grabs Bene's throat, kills her, while fighting Cin with one hand. Now I would expect Cin to do something in the four seconds they dueled, but what they portrayed in that small sequence was Cin just hit Anakin's saber while Anakin calmly slapped him away.

I have done the same. Anakin likely instantly crushed Bene's neck with his mechanical hand. Obviously she went down fast cause she's just a Padawan and isn't very strong. What would you have expected Cin to do in the 2 seconds he was fightin Anakin (cause that was NOT 4 seconds, 2 at the most and Cin's not in the beginning of the hologram). And yes, he hit Anakin's saber and Anakin blocked it, which is the same thing that happens in all saber duels - person A swings at person B, person B blocks it with his lightsaber. What would you expect, Cin to kill Anakin in 2 seconds?
I can probably understand why Cin gets killed with one-hand. Now, this may be an understatement to Cin's powers, but he can't be much better, otherwise he's being very underated. Nick Gillard himself said his character in Star Wars is far weaker than what he should be.

For the last time it is unknown if he was kileld one-handed or not. Where did Nick say that? And you do realise that (according to Nick anyway) if he was really fighting his best when he portrayed Cin he'd have beaten Anakin. Nick regards himself as a betetr duelist than Hayden, that's what he means by Cin is weaker than what he should be. Because if Nick was trying his hardest Cin'd be alot stronger, But I sitll wanna see the source for the quote.
Plus, I don't think Maul can get killed with one hand.

By Vader? I dunno, that'd be close, but we DON'T KNOW IF CIN WAS KILLED WITH ONE HAND!
EU Grievous nearly stalemated Mace Windu with Vapaad and was only bested by the supreme master of Soresu, I doubt Cin is on their level.

Yes, Grievoud did put up a good fight against Mace and is ststaed to be close to Dooku, too. What makes you doubt that Cin is on ROTS kenobi's level or at least very near to it?
And finally I don't think Qui-Gon Jinn and his skilled apprentice can lose to Cin Drallig.

Why not? Tell me, what are you basing Cin's power off of, his ability to not be able to kill ROTS vader in under 2 seconds?

I have done the same. Anakin likely instantly crushed Bene's neck with his mechanical hand. Obviously she went down fast cause she's just a Padawan and isn't very strong. What would you have expected Cin to do in the 2 seconds he was fightin Anakin (cause that was NOT 4 seconds, 2 at the most and Cin's not in the beginning of the hologram). And yes, he hit Anakin's saber and Anakin blocked it, which is the same thing that happens in all saber duels - person A swings at person B, person B blocks it with his lightsaber. What would you expect, Cin to kill Anakin in 2 seconds?

No duh. Anakin was just measely slapping Cin Drallig's oh-so-powerful attacks away. All Cin was doing was moving sideways trying to hit Anakin, which Anakin fends off quite easily. If Cin Drallig was a master swordsmen, why doesn't he do some Ataru or some Shien to push Anakin back. Take a look at these pictures:

PICTURE 1: THE START OF THE FIGHT:

PICTURE 2: THE FIGHT IS UNDERWAY:

PICTURE 3: ANAKIN KILLS:

From what I can see, Anakin seems to have no trouble.

Shoot, my picture is gone!!!!

Anyway, here is one picture:

ANd here is an ROTS excerpt about Cin:

"""" Stone-faced, Obi-Wan watched younglings run into the room, fleeing a storm of blasterfire; he watched Cin Drallig and a pair of teenage Padawans--was that Whie, the boy Yoda had brought to Vjun?--backing into the scene, blades whirling, cutting down the advancing clone troopers with deflected bolts.

He watched a lightsaber blade flick into the shot, cutting down first one Padawan, then the other. He watched the brisk stride of a caped figure who hacked through Drallig’s shoulder, then stood aside as [the Master] fell dying to let the rest of the clones blast the children to shreds."""

Apparently, I get the impression that the battle was quick.