http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_indirect_speech
http://www.litencyc.com/php/stopics.php?rec=true&UID=444
^I suggest reading up Vader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_indirect_speech
http://www.litencyc.com/php/stopics.php?rec=true&UID=444
^I suggest reading up Vader.
and what are you trying to prove?
i still fail to see how "they" came from vaders thoughts
the links you put there prove what u said earlier but one thing,
it still doesnt mean the writer indirectly wrote vaders thoughts.
well i conclude one thing, the writer himself only him believes vader would be equals with sidious but well ill break my own arguement and go with lucas words, 80% os sidious
No, the author doesn't believe anything of the sort.
Yeah, could Vader POSSIBLY be referring to himself and Sidious as 'they' indirectly? I mean after the he? Perhaps Luke thinking 'he knew THEY needed to...'
and all the like? It was Vader's thoughts, get over it.
And I find it rich you can't even string coherent grammar and spelling together but you accuse me of not understanding grammar.
James Luceno worked very closely with Matthew Stover and George Lucas to make sure that labyrinth of evil and Rise of Darth Vader tied in perfectly with Episode iii so that these novels formed a trilogy in themselves to show Anakin as a Jedi Knight followed by the fall and then the rise of Anakin as a Sith Lord.
I believe that it was written exactly the way that it was meant to be. That Vader, no matter that he was no longer able to achieve the heights of power that he could have, would still in time grow to be stronger than Sidious.
"However, after all of his limbs were severed and he was extremely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful."
-- George Lucas.
Now, it does say "was believed", but it's pretty clearly put that Lucas is telling us that Vader will not be on par with Sidious.
Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
why did lucas say "As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor." surly if lucas said that in person then he would know the exact percentage, do you have a link to wherte the quote was published?
Why would Lucas say "Oh yes, Vader is 78.2334687% of Sidious' own power"? Ridiculous.
"He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor-- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
-- George Lucas, Rolling Stones, June 2, 2005.
The source for the other quote is in another Rolling Stones interview, I believe. Though, it's not as if there's a link for every article ever written, now is there.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
ROTS Anakin > Count Dooku
ESB Vader > or = Count Dooku (80% of Sidious is Dooku)
OT vader is above ROTS anakin for sure so maybe very close to sidious 90% or maybe 95%
note that lucas said AS anakin skywalker, vader is 80% of sidious
Originally posted by Lightsnake
What the hell? No, it's Vader's THOUGHTS and Lucas has CONFIRMED that Vader was only ever 80 percent of Sidious.Sidious>Vader. Case. Is. Closed
can you stop being an idiot? it was from the author not the writer and lucas checks on the work done by james luceno.
confirmed anakin is 80% of sidious i didnt hear him say vader in the OT
Originally posted by ESB Vader
note that lucas said AS anakin skywalker, vader is 80% of sidious
No, it doesn't. It says "However, after all of his limbs were severedand he was extremely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful."
Obviously it means Vader after his injuries had only 80% of the power Sidious did. Which means post-suit Vader.
damm read it wrongly still i am confused by james lucenos comment in rodv of saying "there would come a day however when they would be equals"
notice the word "would" that meant it already happened but that sentence goes head to head with lucas comment about vader, since lucas created vader id say lucas wins,
well i still take james sentence into consideration
damn... I'm hesitant to reply since I see you're in on this one, Advent! lol Just kidding! (But you might put that quote in you sig, eh? hehe) Anyway, my vote for greatest duelist goes to Tulak Hord, based on what Kreia says in KOTOR II, stating that later lightsabre wielders were like "children playing with toys," compared to the skills of the ancient Sith lords... Just my 2 cents...
well we dont know what form he uses but kreia mentioned that the jedi in the old republic era are children playing with toys compared to the old masters which are the ancient sith. considering revan and kreia were good with the sabers and kreia being able to wield 4 sabers in total seems quite good and yet she claims tulak hord is the greatest lightsaber duelist during the ancient times.
dunno if we can compare him to luke kyle or jacen
Originally posted by ESB Vader
damm read it wrongly still i am confused by james lucenos comment in rodv of saying "there would come a day however when they would be equals"notice the word "would" that meant it already happened but that sentence goes head to head with lucas comment about vader, since lucas created vader id say lucas wins,
well i still take james sentence into consideration
(I know this is beyond the scope of the original post in this thread, but...) I don't think that the word, "would," implies that it already happened. I think you might be taking the sentence out of context. Instead, Vader is thinking to himself that one day he would be an equal of Sidious', which would also be the time when he "looked down" on his dead body.
Advent and I argued over this a little, but I think that GL purposely leaves this ambiguous to give us the chance to argue over it (like he does so many other things). Vader is never an equal of Sidious, and never becomes one.
Another note about context: GL was saying the whole "80% of the Emperor" thing in an interview... probably something he rattled off the top of his head. I don't think it was like he sat down and wracked his brain figuring out how powerful Vader is in comparison, and then wrote it into the canon. The fact of the matter is that he's not as powerful, whether he's 80%, 90%, or 99% of the Emperor in strength. Otherwise, he would be the master and not the apprentice.
But, to bring this back to the original post (somewhat), I would argue that Vader is not really a better duelist than Sidious... maybe prior to the suit, but not afterwards. Then again, it probably had been about 20 years since Sidious dueled anyone after Yoda... Perhaps he had gotten rusty? lol 😉