Astonishing X-Men

Originally posted by Battlehammer
you think classic x-men wolverine was good.............the one who did not even have a healing factor..........or even had described powers........ya thats real good wolverine there.

I own every issue of wolverine aside from issue one and three of blood sport.

I know what good wolverine story is. Good characterization of wolverine would have to be on of miller original takes on the character. When they showed Logan ninja/samuria side.

Logan being comic relief.........is far from good writing for wolverine

Classic doesn't mean the first appearance, it means his first few years with the X-Men (that's what I was referencing).

Yeah, because Ninja/Samurai hasn't been done to death at all.

There's nothing wrong with Logan being used as comic relief. At all.

Any character can be used for comic relief, if done right, which it has been in AXM.

Originally posted by Citizen V
Classic doesn't mean the first appearance, it means his first few years with the X-Men (that's what I was referencing).

Yeah, because Ninja/Samurai hasn't been done to death at all.

There's nothing wrong with Logan being used as comic relief. At all.

Any character can be used for comic relief, if done right, which it has been in AXM.

...........it took 7 years before Logans powers were mention. So it hardly matters if your talking first apearence or 2 years from then.

ninja/samuria may have been done to death does not take away from the fact when miller originally did it, it was a great arc and charactlization.

actaully Logan as comic relief is awful and the way whedon does it is dumb and out of character.

axm is good. characterization of Logan is awful.

I mean his interaction with whats her face( chiness girl) for one is out of character.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
...........it took 7 years before Logans powers were mention. So it hardly matters if your talking first apearence or 2 years from then.

ninja/samuria may have been done to detah does nottake away from the fact when miller originally did it, it was a great arc and charactlization.

actaully Logan ascomic relief is awful and the way whedon does it is dumb and out of character.

axm is good. characterization of Logan is awful.

I mean his interaction with whats her face( chiness girl) for one is out of character.

Powers don't affect characterization, IMO. Take Rictor over in X Factor, he went from being able to cause earthquakes (and being deadly boring) to being powerless and utterly awesome.

Yeah, it WAS great, it's not now.

Dumb and out of character? How?

Armor? I think that's pretty cool, it reminds me of Wolverine/Jubilee (Which I didn't really like at the time, to be honest) but better. He gets awesome moments (like the Beast/Wolverine fight, the beer thing etc.) and incredible one liners. As well as action..

😬, I don't see why you hate it so much.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

actaully Logan as comic relief is awful

Why?

Originally posted by Citizen V
Powers don't affect characterization, IMO. Take Rictor over in X Factor, he went from being able to cause earthquakes (and being deadly boring) to being powerless and utterly awesome.

Yeah, it [b]WAS great, it's not now.

Dumb and out of character? How?

Armor? I think that's pretty cool, it reminds me of Wolverine/Jubilee (Which I didn't really like at the time, to be honest) but better. He gets awesome moments (like the Beast/Wolverine fight, the beer thing etc.) and incredible one liners. As well as action..

😬, I don't see why you hate it so much. [/B]

Agreed. I'm not entirely sure what people are looking for regarding Logans inner thoughts...?

Something along the lines of this? 😕

http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=x23targetx2017ea3.jpg

I like how simplistic the AXM Wolverine seems but in actual fact he isn't. Like everyone in AXM Logan isn't what he seems to be at first glance, I thought that moment with Armour where his face was burnt off was awesome.

Originally posted by Citizen V
Powers don't affect characterization, IMO. Take Rictor over in X Factor, he went from being able to cause earthquakes (and being deadly boring) to being powerless and utterly awesome.

Yeah, it [b]WAS great, it's not now.

Dumb and out of character? How?

Armor? I think that's pretty cool, it reminds me of Wolverine/Jubilee (Which I didn't really like at the time, to be honest) but better. He gets awesome moments (like the Beast/Wolverine fight, the beer thing etc.) and incredible one liners. As well as action..

😬, I don't see why you hate it so much. [/B]

true, but in that case it did.since the character was not even developed and when he was he was completely changed, because he was being written rather dumb. going back to being written Like that when he hasent in over 14 years is not an improvements, but going back wards.

..........it reminds you of jublee and wolverine? ya becuase Logan use to threaten to kick jublee off the x-men all the time 🙄. Most of the things he has said to her he never said to jublee or kitty.t here completely out of character.

beast/wolverine fight was dumb and amde little senses for why they fought. logan jsut came off like an asswholetoa character he never like that to at all.

His lines most of the time are out of character and things he never said.

I hate it becuase he not written like he normally is and is being used as comic relief.

He also beeing forced to only be in astonishing x-men instead of another series were he actaully be written in character and actually do something and have more then a single line an issue.

Then the fact many other characters whedon could write much better and would fit much better with the team and story like night crawler

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He also beeing forced to only be in astonishing x-men instead of another series were he actaully be written in character and actually do something and have more then a single line an issue.

That's only fairly recently. AXM began in what 2004? I remember Claremont had Logan for his whole run back then.
Not to mention the fact that being on the AXM team has it's pros since you practically appear in every MU/X-Men minor/major crossover and guest appear in New X-Men, X-Factor, X-Men, UXM etc.

The AXM team is the poster team of the X-Men. Wolverine has to be on it.

Night Crawler would not fit on AXM. 😐

And when Wolverine said he would kick her off the team onto "Exscalisuck" that was what we call a joke. Not to mention that he basically just decided that she was on the team, nor did he ask anyone's permission, so if he wanted to them he'd be free to.

And the Beast/Wolverine fight was great, because it showed that Wolverine knew Hank enough to know before anybody else, without being told that Hank was thinking about getting the cure. It may have made them seem both like thugs, but it shows respect to continuity (and the fact Hank and Logan had been team-mates for years) because it wouldn't be the first time they'd thought and shows they know each other very well.

I would rather him be on AXM than be on New Avengers.

Why? Because he's an X-Man, even if he's not doing anything he belongs there because it's his home. 😬

Originally posted by Citizen V
Night Crawler would not fit on AXM. 😐

And when Wolverine said he would kick her off the team onto "Exscalisuck" that was what we call a joke. Not to mention that he basically just decided that she was on the team, nor did he ask anyone's permission, so if he wanted to them he'd be free to.

And the Beast/Wolverine fight was great, because it showed that Wolverine knew Hank enough to know before anybody else, without being told that Hank was thinking about getting the cure. It may have made them seem both like thugs, but it shows respect to continuity (and the fact Hank and Logan had been team-mates for years) because it wouldn't be the first time they'd thought and shows they know each other very well.

I would rather him be on AXM than be on New Avengers.

Why? Because he's an X-Man, even if he's not doing anything he belongs there because it's his home. 😬

Originally posted by Citizen V
Night Crawler would not fit on AXM. 😐

Originally posted by Citizen V
And when Wolverine said he would kick her off the team onto "Exscalisuck" that was what we call a joke. Not to mention that he basically just decided that she was on the team, nor did he ask anyone's permission, so if he wanted to them he'd be free to.

Logan had never said anything like that to kitty or jublee and never would. Thats not how he is.

Originally posted by Citizen V
And the Beast/Wolverine fight was great, because it showed that Wolverine knew Hank enough to know before anybody else, without being told that Hank was thinking about getting the cure. It may have made them seem both like thugs, but it shows respect to continuity (and the fact Hank and Logan had been team-mates for years) because it wouldn't be the first time they'd thought and shows they know each other very well

It was shitty. First ofall Logan has never had trouble with hank before in a fight.

also Logna knowing hank is not bad characterlization, but the fact he attack hank is. Logan has never been written to be like that to hank at all. Logan in character would have talked to hank. Logan tends to be overly protective of hank.

Originally posted by Citizen V
I would rather him be on AXM than be on New Avengers.

I don't, he way better written in new avengers.

Originally posted by Citizen V
Why? Because he's an X-Man, even if he's not doing anything he belongs there because it's his home. 😬 .

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It was shitty. First ofall Logan has never had trouble with hank before in a fight.

This is Cat Beast though. I don't recall Hank and Wolverine ever going at it after Beast devolved. In his Cat Beast form Hank is written inconsistently, his strength level in particular.
Also niether character was bloodlusted in that fight so lethal force was out of the question.

He really wouldn't. He wouldn't add anything to the dynamic, at all IMO.

And that's because Jubilee and Kitty are nothing like Armour 😬, people do act differently to different people you know.

Wolverine hadn't fought Beast prior to his transformation though, sometimes you need to vent your anger somehow; fighting was the way Wolverine helped Hank vent his, Hank was angry at the fact he was seemingly devolving and becoming less and less human and was going to do something rash, Wolvie brought him to his senses.

Written better in New Avengers? No way, I can understand why you think that (because you don't like how he's written in AXM) but I see it more as Wolverine acts differently on any X-Men team as he would on the Avengers, because the X-Men are his family and the Avengers are just a team to him.

Because with a team like Joss Whedon (the man who gets BUFFY in the top five) and John Cassady, the characters really make a difference?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
This is Cat Beast though. I don't recall Hank and Wolverine ever going at it after Beast devolved. In his Cat Beast form Hank is written inconsistently, his strength level in particular.
Also niether character was bloodlusted in that fight so lethal force was out of the question.

Originally posted by Citizen V
He really wouldn't. He wouldn't add anything to the dynamic, at all IMO.

And that's because Jubilee and Kitty are nothing like Armour 😬, people do act differently to different people you know.

Wolverine hadn't fought Beast prior to his transformation though, sometimes you need to vent your anger somehow; fighting was the way Wolverine helped Hank vent his, Hank was angry at the fact he was seemingly devolving and becoming less and less human and was going to do something rash, Wolvie brought him to his senses.

Written better in New Avengers? No way, I can understand why you think that (because you don't like how he's written in AXM) but I see it more as Wolverine acts differently on any X-Men team as he would on the Avengers, because the X-Men are his family and the Avengers are just a team to him.

Because with a team like Joss Whedon (the man who gets BUFFY in the top five) and John Cassady, the characters really make a difference?

actaully armor is very similar to jublee. also Like I said ti out of character for him to say something like that. He very nice to young people girls in general taht he gotten close to he acts like a father figure. he was never threaten to kick them off a team even as a joke.

beast fight was out of character. Logan never would resort to violance on beast like that. He threaten beast from the start nothing he would normally do at all. He would have talked to beast not threaten him. It was out of character.

ecot in AXM he acts differently then he ever done on any other x-men arc and run aside from perhaps even this is a stretch his classic days before his character evolution.

yes the team matter especial when the writter makes a point in commenting he does nto know how to write a certain character.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
they did in enemy of the state and hank was drop in a pannel.

EotS? That was written after their fight in AXM. AXM was in 2004, EotS was in 2005. So technically Miller was the one who ignored continuity there. In any event didn't Wolverine have the ability to teleport there? And was wtfpwning all the X-Men and most of the MU...I hardly think that counts.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=2115
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=2468

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
EotS? That was written after their fight in AXM. AXM was in 2004, EotS was in 2005. So technically Miller was the one who ignored continuity there. In any event didn't Wolverine have the ability to teleport there? And was wtfpwning all the X-Men and most of the MU...I hardly think that counts.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=2115
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=2468

I don't think miller ignored any thing. Hanks always beeing beat down like a chump.

Logan teleporting was like a body slide. it was not used in combat or verse hank.

actaully Logan really did not beat any one he could not and the only part that could even be consider pis would be human torch part which had lots of plot devices and cis which would explain how Logan did it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
[B]I don't think miller ignored any thing. Hanks always beeing beat down like a chump.

Well seeing how they fought 6 months+ back and Beast seemed to be doing fine there, and then somehow got one-shotted later on in EotS I'd say that he is technically ignoring continuity.

actaully Logan really did not beat any one he could not and the only part that could even be consider pis would be human torch part which had lots of plot devices and cis which would explain how Logan did it.

Rachel Grey, Storm etc...pretty much jobbed. IRRC in issue #30 they even have a discussion about this in Emma's therapy session. EotS was a Wolverine event similar to how WWH was a Hulk event which is why he came out on top throughout that entire arc.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well seeing how they fought 6 months+ back and Beast seemed to be doing fine there, and then somehow got one-shotted later on in EotS I'd say it he is technically ignoring continuity.

Rachel Grey, Storm etc...pretty much jobbed. IRRC in issue #30 they even have a discussion about this in Emma's therapy session. EotS was a Wolverine event similar to how WWH was a Hulk event which is why he came out on top throughout that entire arc.

If I was beting man I'd say Millar ignored the fight because it was hopelessly out of character on Wolverine's part? He attacked his friend... with his claws drawn. His claws are hardly a defensive weapon, any time Wolverine attacks someone with his claws he is trying to a) kill them or b) disarm them; anything else is PIS. Does anyone think Wolverine was trying to kill Hank? No? Then what was he planing on doing with his claws, give Hank a hair cut maybe?

Wolverine has said many times someone comes at him with fists he meets them in kind, but someone draws a weapon then he does the same. It was a dated interpretation of Wolverine that ignored years of character development... it was the same Wolverine, Storm was lecturing when the New X-Men first formed, not the one from today.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If I was beting man I'd say Millar ignored the fight because it was hopelessly out of character on Wolverine's part? He attacked his friend... with his claws drawn. His claws are hardly a defensive weapon, any time Wolverine attacks someone with his claws he is trying to a) kill them or b) disarm them; anything else is PIS. Does anyone think Wolverine was trying to kill Hank? No? Then what was he planing on doing with his claws, give Hank a hair cut maybe?

Wolverine has said many times someone comes at him with fists he meets them in kind, but someone draws a weapon then he does the same. It was a dated interpretation of Wolverine that ignored years of character development... it was the same Wolverine, Storm was lecturing when the New X-Men first formed, not the one from today.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

Rachel Grey, Storm etc...pretty much jobbed. IRRC in issue #30 they even have a discussion about this in Emma's therapy session. EotS was a Wolverine event similar to how WWH was a Hulk event which is why he came out on top throughout that entire arc.

actaully it not out of character at all. Logan is one of the most fear mutants alive. There are stories told about events he has done. He is simply scary. Even if your more powerful then he, it does not mean your not scared of a man who has killed hundreds of people.

rachel also views wolverine as a father figure it completely with in character for her to get scared and do what he says it even explained.

how storm jobb? She never even fought him.