NBA discussion thread

Originally posted by koolruningz
To counter that, you put Kobe on either one of Jordan's championship teams and they still beat the Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz teams that the Bulls beat. Thats how close they are imo, hell the Bulls nearly made it to the finals with Pete Myers as the starting SG the year Jordan was "out". Kobe on those Bulls teams would beat this Celtic team as well, Pippen would render Pierce ineffective (and run the offense so Kobe could concentrate on scoring), Grant/Longley would have done a better job on KG (and made the mid-range jumper that was there all series long), Rodman/Cartwright would have kept Perkins off the boards and Paxon/Harper would have got the better of Rondo.
Kobe needs to play his whole career to see where he will be ranked all time, talent wise he is right up there with the best but he is still in his prime and with the Lakers getting stronger next year there is a great chance he will be right back in the finals again health permitting.
This point also brings up the argument that "Jordan would have never let that happen", which is correct. He would have forced it against a Boston defense that was basically a zone and thrown up 30 plus shots and gone down guns blazing. But because we never saw Jordan play against a defense like that we dont know what the results would have been. What we do know is that Boston played a soft zone against LeBron and Kobe very effectively and contained them well. s.

1) Getting to the Conf Semis does not mean "almost" to the Finals

2) Kobe is not encouraging to teammates. Jordan got in their ass, yeah, but he never cussed them out in front of EVERYONE ON NATIONAL TV. Kobe was breaking down game by game.

3) Zone defense is a ***** defense but that era had far better defensive teams and they were able to be far more physical. Did you even remember that dunk that is played over and over and over and over of Jordan 93' being triple teamed against the Knicks on the baseline and still dunking on Ewing? That's what Kobe is missing.

Kobe whines and does not intimidate back when it gets tough. He gets really frustrated and goes further and further outside the paint. I could never see Kobe pulling anything near what MJ did. Kobe gets out of control if he doesn't get every call and he blows a damn gasket. Look at all the 3s he shot and the start of game 5 and 6 of the finals just now. Pierce played against a zone defense and constantly got in the lane. It's not just the players. It's also a mentality. At the start of game 4 he kept going to the lane. Once the easy stuff stopped, he stopped.

It really is that simple for me.

i see what you're saying, but why bring up steve nash?

hes a different kettle of fish to mj and kobe.

Originally posted by chithappens
1) Getting to the Conf Semis does not mean "almost" to the Finals

2) Kobe is not encouraging to teammates. Jordan got in their ass, yeah, but he never cussed them out in front of EVERYONE ON NATIONAL TV. Kobe was breaking down game by game.

3) Zone defense is a ***** defense but that era had far better defensive teams and they were able to be far more physical. Did you even remember that dunk that is played over and over and over and over of Jordan 93' being triple teamed against the Knicks on the baseline and still dunking on Ewing? That's what Kobe is missing.

Kobe whines and does not intimidate back when it gets tough. He gets really frustrated and goes further and further outside the paint. I could never see Kobe pulling anything near what MJ did. Kobe gets out of control if he doesn't get every call and he blows a damn gasket. Look at all the 3s he shot and the start of game 5 and 6 of the finals just now. Pierce played against a zone defense and constantly got in the lane. It's not just the players. It's also a mentality. At the start of game 4 he kept going to the lane. Once the easy stuff stopped, he stopped.

It really is that simple for me.

You're grasping for straws here. Jordan is better because he gets in his teammates asses in practice while Kobe does it during the game? How does that make anyone better? When Kobe is giving it to his teammates during timeouts, do you really think he cares about their feelings? Michael was the same way.

Your last paragraph just shows that you don't know anything about Kobe. Is the finals the first time you have ever seen him play? Because what you just said is the furthest thing from the truth.

#3 I really don't understand at all. What exactly is Kobe missing?

Originally posted by chithappens
1) Getting to the Conf Semis does not mean "almost" to the Finals

2) Kobe is not encouraging to teammates. Jordan got in their ass, yeah, but he never cussed them out in front of EVERYONE ON NATIONAL TV. Kobe was breaking down game by game.

3) Zone defense is a ***** defense but that era had far better defensive teams and they were able to be far more physical. Did you even remember that dunk that is played over and over and over and over of Jordan 93' being triple teamed against the Knicks on the baseline and still dunking on Ewing? That's what Kobe is missing.

Kobe whines and does not intimidate back when it gets tough. He gets really frustrated and goes further and further outside the paint. I could never see Kobe pulling anything near what MJ did. Kobe gets out of control if he doesn't get every call and he blows a damn gasket. Look at all the 3s he shot and the start of game 5 and 6 of the finals just now. Pierce played against a zone defense and constantly got in the lane. It's not just the players. It's also a mentality. At the start of game 4 he kept going to the lane. Once the easy stuff stopped, he stopped.

It really is that simple for me.

1) Getting to the conference finals is pretty close to the finals and with Pete Myres starting at SG i'd say that spoke volumes for how good that team was. But if you want to split hairs you can have that one.

2) If you think Kobe is tougher on his teammates than Jordan then you need to read the "Jordan Rules", he was a tyrant and his teammates were shit scared of him. Horace Grant and Stacy King are probably still in therapy and its well documented that Jordan during game used to run down court telling Phil who to pull from the game. Kobe is tough on his teammates but he is like Gandhi when compared to MJ.

3) Kobe was dunking on fools the day he set foot on the NBA floor, dont you remember the dunk he did over Ben Wallace in his rookie pre-season? That can be found on youtube along with many other dunks on people. Just off the top of my head i can remember Kobe dunking on Robinson, Duncan, Sabonis, Yao, D12 and Vlade, all those guys are legit shotblockers.

As for the rest of it, it just sounds like you tuned in for the finals and missed the rest of the playoffs. Kobe has been in the NBA for 12yrs now and he has proved himself to be the best player in the game, skill wise he is close to Jordan but where he stacks up career wise will have to be determined when he retires.

Im pretty sure its simple for you, it sounds like you havent given it much thought. Just watched "Come fly with me" and then compared that to the Kobe we just saw in the finals. Go back and watch Jordan struggle against the Pistons in the years leading up to his first title, he couldnt do it on his own against a defense geared to stop him and neither can Kobe.

As I said in the other thread, let Kobe finish his career. Then the comparsions can start. He's in his prime. He'll win another title or two

For the Laker fans here, its a long summer. I have confidence in Buss and Kupchak. They will make some moves to improve the lineup. As it stands, Andrew, Pau and maybe Lamar(who knows), Kobe and D Fish. They need a true point guard. Its a shame Earl Watson signed with Seattle. Need a solid strong veteran forward to come off the bench

Originally posted by koolruningz
hell the Bulls nearly made it to the finals with Pete Myers as the starting SG the year Jordan was "out".

I had to go waaaaaaay out my way to get links but here:

God Disguised as Michael Jordan (85'86', year he was out; Round 1, kicked out by Boston)

1985-1986 Playoff Bracket

This was the only year Jordan was "out." He played 18 games that year. I couldn't figure out exactly what you were talking about...

Originally posted by Lord Evolution

Your last paragraph just shows that you don't know anything about Kobe. Is the finals the first time you have ever seen him play? Because what you just said is the furthest thing from the truth.

#3 I really don't understand at all. What exactly is Kobe missing?

I saw Kobe play every round. He never had to play a team that had the personnel to defend him until the Finals. The funny thing about Bowen of the Spurs is that he is a very cerberal defender but he is not able to keep up with Kobe's athlethism and few people in the NBA are capable. If a guy has length AND speed (enough where he can't always go right around the guy), Kobe tends to get flustred quickly (remember Prince and the Pistons? it was the same principle). I didn't mention Jordan's Triple team dunk to say "He can dunk on people and Kobe can't" but Jordan used to get all the contact without a call on each and every time down the floor and play through it.

Yes, Jordan complained to, but he did not let it completely disrupt his efficency or letting him facilitate to other players. Kobe scores 81 on the Raptors but he has yet to take over in the playoffs like he potentially can do. The Bulls played great defense but they were not AND I REPEAT WERE NOT AN OFFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT. Efficent when it counted, but they were rarely going to blow you out. Watch the close out games versus the Jazz in 97 and 98. They would just pass to MJ and look around until the end of the game timeouts when everyone was getting yelled out prior to the in bound.

I'm not looking for 81, but I'm looking for him to not blow 24 and 19 point leads or be beaten by 39 in a playoff game. Even Tracy McGrady was going "God Damn!" **** a team. One guy is capable of keeping that from happening. Even LeBron with his iffy jumpshot was TAKING OVER GAMES BY HIMSELF AGAINST THE "GREAT" PISTON DEFENSE in last year's playoffs.

This godly image of Jordan stems from people thinking his career started in the 90-91 season. Do you realize that Jordan was a loser in the NBA before this time? Why on earth does no one talk about pre 1990? I now see why people say "he aint Jordan" every time he has a bad playoff game or whatnot, they think Jordan never lost a playoff series.

And Boston does not have the personnel to guard Kobe. No one on that team can guard Kobe one on one. Bruce Bowen for the most part did good against Kobe. He made it extremely difficult for him to score and kept him off the ft line. Boston does not have a better perimeter defender on their roster than Bruce Bowen. If you watched how they played Kobe, it was different from the way the Spurs did. They packed the paint to keep Kobe from driving, and were excellent on their rotations and recovery, so we didn't get many open shots on the perimeter even when Kobe drew multiple defenders.

Anyways going back to the earlier point. Kobe is not done, MJ didn't win his first title until he was 28, Kobe already had 3 at that point. I'm not here to compares MJ's legacy to Kobe's, because that would be foolish, more so their skill sets. But it's kind of hard to argue with someone who has this godly image of Jordan, and fails to look at his defeats in the playoffs before the 1990 season, sort of like picking and choosing when Jordan was great, erasing the bad moments from history.

And please don't bring Tmac into this. The dude has never been out of the first round. Not to mention his team got beat by over 40 in a closeout game inthe first round. And LeBrn got swept in last years finals. He wasn't taking over any games then.

Originally posted by chithappens
I had to go waaaaaaay out my way to get links but here:

God Disguised as Michael Jordan (85'86', year he was out; Round 1, kicked out by Boston)

1985-1986 Playoff Bracket

This was the only year Jordan was "out." He played 18 games that year. I couldn't figure out exactly what you were talking about...

You could have saved yourself the hassle of searching for links and just looked at the year Pete Myres started for the Bulls, heres another clue it was the same year MJ tried something new.

For the rest of it all, Evo summed it all up very well. You cant just have revisionist history when looking back at MJ's career, you have to take into account the times he failed as well. Otherwise nobody is gonna be able to take his mantle, ever.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
This godly image of Jordan stems from people thinking his career started in the 90-91 season. Do you realize that Jordan was a loser in the NBA before this time? Why on earth does no one talk about pre 1990? I now see why people say "he aint Jordan" every time he has a bad playoff game or whatnot, they think Jordan never lost a playoff series.

And Boston does not have the personnel to guard Kobe. No one on that team can guard Kobe one on one. Bruce Bowen for the most part did good against Kobe. He made it extremely difficult for him to score and kept him off the ft line. Boston does not have a better perimeter defender on their roster than Bruce Bowen. If you watched how they played Kobe, it was different from the way the Spurs did. They packed the paint to keep Kobe from driving, and were excellent on their rotations and recovery, so we didn't get many open shots on the perimeter even when Kobe drew multiple defenders.

Anyways going back to the earlier point. Kobe is not done, MJ didn't win his first title until he was 28, Kobe already had 3 at that point. I'm not here to compares MJ's legacy to Kobe's, because that would be foolish, more so their skill sets. But it's kind of hard to argue with someone who has this godly image of Jordan, and fails to look at his defeats in the playoffs before the 1990 season, sort of like picking and choosing when Jordan was great, erasing the bad moments from history.

And please don't bring Tmac into this. The dude has never been out of the first round. Not to mention his team got beat by over 40 in a closeout game inthe first round. And LeBrn got swept in last years finals. He wasn't taking over any games then.

Did you read any of my post?

I said Bowen could not contest Kobe's jump shot well. He can stay in front to a degree but he can not jump with Kobe. Boston did rotate well and the Spurs did a decent job, BUT the difference is that they have players who can jump with Kobe. Kobe barely took any free throws because they refused to let him in the paint. The difference is that no one could consistently contest his jump shots well.

Jordan BEFORE his championships had GREAT playoff performances all the time. He would go down but GUNS BLAZING. Kobe just gets into "**** it" mode ala no shots in second half of Game 7, Round 1 against Suns last year.

I mentioned T-Mac BECAUSE he has never been past the first round to say even he would not go out like that. You don't read many novels or anything for allusion do you?

Oh and about the sweep in the Finals, the Lakers should have been swept: Beat in Game 1 and 2 soundly, barely won despite none of the Big 3 showing up much in Game 3, lost 24 point lead in Game 4, lost 21 point lead (19 at half) in Game 5 and barely won even though Perkins was out and Rondo was limping, and got beat by 39 in Game 6. I was rather get swept but a better team last year than have that happen by a completely more dominant showing in this year's Finals.

We lost by 10 in game 1, it was close the entire game up until the final minutes. In game 2, they had a 24 point lead with 7 mins remaining in the 4th, we cut it to 2 with a min remaining, and lost by 6. I don't know how any of that qualifies as being beat soundly. We won game 3 because of Kobe, Sasha came up big as well, but no one else showed up, Pierce and KG didn't show up for that game, but Ray Allen did, but neither did Gasol or Odom, so it evened out. The only game that was lopsided was game 6.

And Bowen did a very good job against Kobe. He's first team all defense. Kobe did most of his damage when Bowen was on the bench. Did you even watch this series? Bowen wasn't contesting Kobe's jump shot like Shane Battier, but he was doing better than anyone one man on the Celtics could do. The Spurs didn't double team Kobe, they took their chances with Bowen and Udoka on Kobe, they figured it would be better that way, better if his teammates didn't get open shots because of double teaming. And I hope you realize Kobe took more ft's in the Finals against the Celtics than he did against the Spurs. Hell Leon powe took more ft's in game 2 than Kobe did in the entire San Antonio series. It's not about having players that can jump with Kobe, it's never been that way. The Celtics simply do not have a single defender that can guard Kobe one on one, so they used team defense, zones, to shut him out.

Mentioning game 7 vs Suns is just you focusing on kobe''s bad games in relation to Jordan's good ones. Jordan had atrcious games, but these never get mentioned.

Game 1 was scrappy and sloppy but the Lakers never got a good drip on hwo to deal with the Celts. Game 2 the Lakers did erase the defecit, but the Celtics did not completely collapse with the lead like the Lakers. Just like if in Game 4: Kobe makes a few plays and that would be game but Paul Pierce locked him down. If Lakers win that game, we don't even remember the "near comeback." The point is, that should never happen at home to ANY team. I don't care that it is Kobe. NO TEAM SHOULD LOSE THAT LEAD AT HOME (obviously Celtics included but like I said, they pulled it out; a win is a win).

Kobe gives up when it is tough and that is the difference. Jordan had bad games but he kept going and pushing. Kobe goes anal and says **** it. Teammates should help, but when the shit hits the fan, the star player should take over. KG had the same issue. Vince Carter. The list goes on. But the ones we remember always go down guns blazing. They will not hit every shot. They will not succeed on every play, but when the game is over you, as a fan, have to say, "Damn! He did not want to lose that game! Remember when he (insert some crazy stuff)? They didn't win but you gotta respect him." LeBron has a while to go to be as polished as Bryant, but EVERY GAME I WATCH LeBron lose in a close out game I still say, "He was not going without a fight!" I have yet to see that in Kobe from 2003 on in close out games that he loses. The games are not close. They are all decided before the final minutes...

And did you even see the defense Pierce put on Kobe?

I can't even have a decent discussion on this with you.

I think Kobe is the most talented dude in the league but his "if it don't go my way, **** it," attitude is what is stopping him from being great in those moments when it's not all happening. This was supposed to be the mature, polished Kobe and this Finals was supposed to be an easy rollover as he won the Finals MVP. He folded.

I don't dislike the guy but it is what it is.

I was going to comment on the Kobe Vs Jordan issue, but after seeing all the posts on the subject, I'm going to pass and ask who should be the starting 5 for the Olympics, I heard Coach K was going to play Lebron at the 4 spot, I doubt it will be a full time thing but its definetly an interesting stradegy.

Originally posted by wuTa
I was going to comment on the Kobe Vs Jordan issue, but after seeing all the posts on the subject, I'm going to pass and ask who should be the starting 5 for the Olympics, I heard Coach K was going to play Lebron at the 4 spot, I doubt it will be a full time thing but its definetly an interesting stradegy.

Yeah, that was my thought. I have an opinion about the Jordan/Kobe issue, but I'm not going to sit down and write a long in depth analysis. All I'll say, is that Kobe of 2 years ago reminds me of pre-90s Jordan and he is improving his leadership to become more like the 90s Jordan that was always prepared and strong on the big stage. Kobe isn't there yet, but he is getting better still. I don't think he'll reach Jordan's level of consistency, but I don't think it is out of the question.

LeBron at 4? I think it would be good for him. I wonder if it will be good for Team USA though.

I'm not sure why LeBron at 4 is a good idea. Maybe as a change in line up in the middle to spice it up, but not as a go-to rotation or starting line up.

He is athlethic but size does matter.

Originally posted by chithappens
Game 1 was scrappy and sloppy but the Lakers never got a good drip on hwo to deal with the Celts. Game 2 the Lakers did erase the defecit, but the Celtics did not completely collapse with the lead like the Lakers. Just like if in Game 4: Kobe makes a few plays and that would be game but Paul Pierce locked him down. If Lakers win that game, we don't even remember the "near comeback." The point is, that should never happen at home to ANY team. I don't care that it is Kobe. NO TEAM SHOULD LOSE THAT LEAD AT HOME (obviously Celtics included but like I said, they pulled it out; a win is a win).

Kobe gives up when it is tough and that is the difference. Jordan had bad games but he kept going and pushing. Kobe goes anal and says **** it. Teammates should help, but when the shit hits the fan, the star player should take over. KG had the same issue. Vince Carter. The list goes on. But the ones we remember always go down guns blazing. They will not hit every shot. They will not succeed on every play, but when the game is over you, as a fan, have to say, "Damn! He did not want to lose that game! Remember when he (insert some crazy stuff)? They didn't win but you gotta respect him." LeBron has a while to go to be as polished as Bryant, but EVERY GAME I WATCH LeBron lose in a close out game I still say, "He was not going without a fight!" I have yet to see that in Kobe from 2003 on in close out games that he loses. The games are not close. They are all decided before the final minutes...

And did you even see the defense Pierce put on Kobe?

I can't even have a decent discussion on this with you.

I think Kobe is the most talented dude in the league but his "if it don't go my way, **** it," attitude is what is stopping him from being great in those moments when it's not all happening. This was supposed to be the mature, polished Kobe and this Finals was supposed to be an easy rollover as he won the Finals MVP. He folded.

I don't dislike the guy but it is what it is.

Pierce didn't lock down Kobe. If Kobe is playing against the Lakers defense, then he's scoring 50 every night. The Celtics do not have any great individual defenders like the Spurs or the Lakers. We have Kobe, Ariza and Newble. Unfortunately Phil didn't give Newble any playing time, and didn't give Ariza any significant minutes. But we have better individual perimeter defenders than they do. They just play better team defense. Pierce is not keeping Kobe out of the lane, without the help from teammates. Every time he drove, there was 2 or 3 bodies in his way, and they took charges, we go for blocks, so it's hit or miss every time. But anyways, you obviously don't watch enough Lakers game to be saying Kobe gives up, that is honestly one of the most ignorant things I have heard someone say, period.

I hate it when people watch a few games and think they know a player. I haven't missed a single Lakers game in 3 years, with the exception of the second half against the Jazz in game 4. You going to sit up here and tell me about Kobe Bryant? Go and tell any Lakers fan that Kobe gives up when things get tough and you will get laughed at right in your face.

You're focusing on the bad games and not the good ones. Everyone has bad games, but why aren't you mentioning how Kobe scored 50 against the Suns in a closeout game, but still fell short? or how he was the reason why the Lakers won that one game in the 2004 Finals? or how we were down by 20 points to the Spurs in game 1 of this years finals, and Kobe went off and we quickly erased that deficit and won the game? or how we were down by 25 to the Mavs in the 4th quarter and then Kobe continued to not miss a single field goal or free throw and we pulled off one of the greatest come backs of all time? There are many more games like this, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you haven't the slightest clue about the games I have just mentioned or any more like it.

Yeah, I think you're a little too ignorant for my taste. I'm going to stop now, because it's obvious you know nothing about Kobe, if you're saying he gives up when it's tough. I think all Lakers fans, even the Kobe haters would agree that that is some bull sh**. I don't even know where it's coming from either.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
But anyways, you obviously don't watch enough Lakers game to be saying Kobe gives up, that is honestly one of the most ignorant things I have heard someone say, period.

Originally posted by chithappens

But the ones we remember always go down guns blazing. They will not hit every shot. They will not succeed on every play, but when the game is over you, as a fan, have to say, "Damn! He did not want to lose that game! Remember when he (insert some crazy stuff)? They didn't win but you gotta respect him." LeBron has a while to go to be as polished as Bryant, but EVERY GAME I WATCH LeBron lose in a close out game I still say, "He was not going without a fight!" I have yet to see that in Kobe from 2003 on in close out games that he loses. The games are not close. They are all decided before the final minutes...

Close out playoff games. For the entire Finals, there was not one game where Kobe took over a game. He toyed with every team until the Finals (and the Spurs because of the Manu injury; they blew huge leads in the West Conf Finals just like the Lakers did in the NBA Finals).

The point is if you go down, you are supposed to go down and your opponent/haters whomever have to respect you afterwards. People are laughing at Kobe and the Lakers. That Game 6 was a disgrace. Game 7 against the Suns before was a disgrace. Complete blow outs.

Regardless of what you want to say, Pierce had Kobe frustrated. He tried to post Pierce but it was not happening. They swarmed him with bodies but what superstar player does not have that happen?

LeBron torched the Cs over and over from Game 3 on in the East Conf Semis. He has a way worse cast and was still getting off 8 plus assist, 8 rpg, 30 + ppg.

Say what you want, it just looks weird for you to completely defend Kobe against all I say when there is some validity to regardless of you completely agreeing with all of it.

Kobe is a great player and I admire the skills, but don't dick suck the guy to whole time. No player is unfathomable, but he has been coming up short when it counts: that's all I'm saying

Originally posted by chithappens
Close out playoff games. For the entire Finals, there was not one game where Kobe took over a game. He toyed with every team until the Finals (and the Spurs because of the Manu injury; they blew huge leads in the West Conf Finals just like the Lakers did in the NBA Finals).

The point is if you go down, you are supposed to go down and your opponent/haters whomever have to respect you afterwards. People are laughing at Kobe and the Lakers. That Game 6 was a disgrace. Game 7 against the Suns before was a disgrace. Complete blow outs.

Regardless of what you want to say, Pierce had Kobe frustrated. He tried to post Pierce but it was not happening. They swarmed him with bodies but what superstar player does not have that happen?

LeBron torched the Cs over and over from Game 3 on in the East Conf Semis. He has a way worse cast and was still getting off 8 plus assist, 8 rpg, 30 + ppg.

Say what you want, it just looks weird for you to completely defend Kobe against all I say when there is some validity to regardless of you completely agreeing with all of it.

Kobe is a great player and I admire the skills, but don't dick suck the guy to whole time. No player is unfathomable, but he has been coming up short when it counts: that's all I'm saying

Kobe had an excellent game 2 and even better game 3. He got us off to a great start in games 3 and 5, but our defense failed us in all but one game in this series. You're not going to win the game unless you play defense, and Kobe did a good job on Pierce when he guarded him, but no one else played good D. You're going to get blown out no matter the type of offensive players on your team if you can't play D, and the opposing team has 3 of the best on their team. Jordan's teams played defense, when he had bad games, they were still close because his team didn't fail. The Cavs have one of the best defensive teams in the league. In game 1 against the Celtics, he had 12 points off 2-18 from the field and they only lost by 4, and LeBron had nothing to do with the game being close. Hell in game 3, he only had 21 points off 5-16 shooting, and his team still won. But all you remember is game 7 where he had 45 points. He torched the C's in one game and every other game he either did awful or fairly well, what series were you watching? Overall he had a bad series. They kept him out of the lane, just like they kept Kobe out of the lane, and LeBron is better at driving than Kobe, that is why Kobe had a better series against the Celtics than LeBron because Kobe is a better jump shooter, while LeBron's game is thrown off if you stop him from driving. See last years series against the Spurs and this years against the Celtics.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
The Cavs have one of the best defensive teams in the league. In game 1 against the Celtics, he had 12 points off 2-18 from the field and they only lost by 4, and LeBron had nothing to do with the game being close. Hell in game 3, he only had 21 points off 5-16 shooting, and his team still won. But all you remember is game 7 where he had 45 points. He torched the C's in one game and every other game he either did awful or fairly well, what series were you watching? Overall he had a bad series. They kept him out of the lane, just like they kept Kobe out of the lane, and LeBron is better at driving than Kobe, that is why Kobe had a better series against the Celtics than LeBron because Kobe is a better jump shooter, while LeBron's game is thrown off if you stop him from driving. See last years series against the Spurs and this years against the Celtics.

Kobe did not have a better series in my opinion. I did watch both series and LeBron gave me a whole lot more "Whoa, WTF!" moments.

Game 4 of the Celtics series LeBron has: 21 pts, 6 reb, 13 ast, 3 steals, 2 blk

Game 5: 35 pts, 3 reb, 5 ast, 1blk, 1stl

Game 6: 32 pts, 12 reb, 6 ast, 2stl, 1 blk

Game 7: 45 pts, 5 reb, 6 ast, 2 stl, 0 blk

I watched the series and LeBron was more impressive in this case. I'm not sure that trend will continue but LeBron thrived from Game 3 on against the vaunted C's defense.

Obviously stats do not say it all, but that terrible Cavs roster says plenty. He is still able to do what he has with that cast. Yes, they play defense but he is still able to get his.

I believe Kobe is more polished that LeBron by a lot. The difference I do see is how they handle the big boy pressure. The Lakers were never even down in a series before the Finals. Kobe just has not responded the way we all know he can. The only thing I can possibly point to is attitude. He has the skillset easily.

LeBron had an awful game 4 and shot poorly in games 1,2,3,4 and 6. He only had 2 good complete games in that series, much like Kobe. He had a good game 5, but I was only impressed by his performance in game 7, but the Celtics were too much at home. And did you just read what I typed? LeBron shot 2-18 and only had 12 points, and his team only lost by 4! Terrible roster? What does it say about a team that can only lose by 4 when their superstar only makes 2 field goals out of 18, and win when their superstar only makes 5 shots out of 16 and they win by 24? For a supposed one man team, the Cavs do awfully well when LeBron has off games, and were not talking about just any team, they beat the NBA champs by a wide margin, when LeBron was not much of a factor.

Kobe's attitude is just fine, again, I don't think you have watched enough Lakers games to be commenting on his attitude because every Lakers fan on this forum will tell you that it's just fine. It's not his attitude that is what is keeping him back from winning another title, it's lack of a reliable second option and a good defensive team. Two things Jordan had from 1990 and on. And it's something hopefully Kobe will have from 2008 and on, with the return of Andrew Bynum and the improvement of our defense over the summer.

New Bynum Video

http://vidstreamhost.com/show_vid.php?url=38

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