Originally posted by Juntai
Sorry buddy, not buying into the theory.
He's descibing [b]CREATING entire worlds and life, a whole new universe, and possibly more than one.It's there even in the scan you posted. [/B]
Youre ignoring the fact that hes stated that hes using chronal energy to achieve everything because it doesnt coincide with your interpretation.
You cant do that J. All the creation of life and so forth can be achieved by time manipulation. By replaying whats come before, all Parallax would have to do is tailor events to get his desired result. It fits perfectly.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre ignoring the fact that hes stated that hes using chronal energy to achieve everything because it doesnt coincide with your interpretation.You cant do that J. All the creation of life and so forth can be achieved by time manipulation. By replaying whats come before, all Parallax would have to do is tailor events to get his desired result. It fits perfectly.
However what can Phoenix do that surpasses that feature?
Originally posted by Juntai
Indeed, he tightened the loop between the beginning and the end of time.YOu have that part correct.However, he is creating the universe out of his hands. Not time manipulations on the event. I don't know where you got that out of the issue.
I'll point out a few things that contradict your theory, directly from the comic... Shall we?
__________________________________________________
"Are you serious, you can create life..?" Guy Gardner."Watch me. All these fledgling globules of energy will soon solidify and become new planets filled with life." - Parralax as he pours a new universe from his fingertips.
__________________________________________________Doctor John Irons "Impressive. We are witnessing the birth of a new existance!
__________________________________________________
Hal Jordan standing in the nothing that used to be reality:
"It's gone so wrong. Those people.. Coast city..."
"The universe needs a protector -- a real guardian to right these wrongs."
"The Universe needs me."
"Time for a new start."
"Clean Slate."
"A re-made Universe."
"MY universe."
"Who knows. . maybe one Universe won't be enough."There he's clearly referencing that he has the power to make a multiverse before encountering Spectre. Impressive.
__________________________________________________________Parallax the page before Spectre shows up..
"I wish you could embrace what I'm offering. How about a Krypton that never blew up, Superman?"
"Wouldn't you like to regain lost time Captain Atom?"
"They say you can't make a omelette without breaking a few eggs.. . . "
" . .. So I had to erase all existance to build a new and far better reality.
"In the end it will be a new PARADISE! A NEW AGE!It's pretty obvious, the very panels themselves SHOW the universe coming from him. His hands shaping it.
Your turn.
What part supports your time manipulation of the creation event stuff?
None of those quotes contradict my interpretation however yours fails to acknowledge Parallax's statement that hes using chronal energies as well as the strong time manipulation theme that ran throughout the title.
Replaying the creation event, changing events slightly here and there (such as the factors that resulted in the end of Kryptons destruction and C Atoms death) would give the desired result.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Makes sense, he goes back to the dawn time, and unmake reality.However what can Phoenix do that surpasses that feature?
All Parallax did was manipulate the time stream of Dcs main universe.
Phoenix showed she can actually cut away at time itself. She amputated 616's future and carried it away beyond reality. Time is nothing to Phoenix she is not bound by it so an attack achieved through time manipulation would be useless.
Phoenix had reality itself in the palm of her hand. She materialized it atom by atom. Reality encompasses a timeline. She held its fate in the palm of her hand. Parallax manipulated the timestream thats all.
It shows him building the universe in his hands piece by piece, starting with a blank page, and the energy forms into his hands... it gets bigger every panel through the comic...He compares what he's doing in creating a new universe, to him starting to rebuild coast city - which he simply willed to appear as a GL. In the scan you showed, it had already escalated to across the backdrop of the entire page.
It describes him creating globules of energy that would be the planets of a new universe, where he creates all the life. And had he not been stopped, a multiverse. As he mentions "Maybe one universe won't be enough" and later mentions making another one for the JSA, where he make them eternally young.
Across the entire comic they mention him" "creating a new universe" or "witnessing the birth of a new universe".
I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.
He was just one Wrath of God shy of being the creator.
Originally posted by Juntai
It shows him building the universe in his hands piece by piece, starting with a blank page, and the energy forms into his hands... it gets bigger every panel through the comic...He compares what he's doing in creating a new universe, to him starting to rebuild coast city - which he simply willed to appear as a GL. In the scan you showed, it had already escalated to across the backdrop of the entire page.It describes him creating globules of energy that would be the planets of a new universe, where he creates all the life. And had he not been stopped, a multiverse. As he mentions "Maybe one universe won't be enough" and later mentions making another one for the JSA, where he make them eternally young.
Across the entire comic they mention him" "creating a new universe" or "witnessing the birth of a new universe".
I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.
He was just one Wrath of God shy of being the creator.
Creating life and remaking a universe are something that can be achieved with time manipulation ive already explained, you know its possible.
Youre using ambiguous artistic depiction and comments pertaining to a new universe being made to form your argument. That isnt good enough. Yes we see energy and so on flowing from his hands and forming life but at the same time he states its chronal energy. Yes they say hes creating a new universe, but that doesnt contradict my theory. If he just wiped out the old universe then goes about replaying the creation event through time manipulation then the resultant universe would be new. Especially if he went on to make minor alterations to events (such as Krypton, Coast City and C Atoms death) so that it was a universe tailored to his liking. Its all about interpretation J.
Youre forgetting to acknowledge that he states that it is ALL achieved through chronal energies. You cant escape that point, acknowledge that point and interpret everything he does with that point in mind.
Chronal energies are to do with the manipulation of time and theyre the energies Hal says he used. Its as simple as that.
Originally posted by GalacticStormI dunno, you can interpret whatever you want about him having chronal energy as whatever, he had the entire OA Battery and the energy from dawn of time where they fought the anti-monitor-- He has the powers of a GL towards infinity and then some.
Creating life and remaking a universe are something that can be achieved with time manipulation ive already explained, you know its possible.Youre using ambiguous artistic depiction and comments pertaining to a new universe being made to form your argument. That isnt good enough. Yes we see energy and so on flowing from his hands and forming life but at the same time he states its chronal energy. Yes they say hes creating a new universe, but that doesnt contradict my theory. If he just wiped out the old universe then goes about replaying the creation event through time manipulation then the resultant universe would be new. Its all about interpretation J.
Youre forgetting to acknowledge that he states that it is ALL achieved through chronal energies. You cant escape that point, acknowledge that point and interpret everything he does with that point in mind.
Chronal energies are to do with the manipulation of time and theyre the energies Hal says he used. Its as simple as that.
The words and likewise the pictures depictions have him creating and forming a new multiverse entirely from nothing in his hands, just as described in my last post. And just as the characters were describing and commenting on.
His energy is forming the universe, he created energy from nothing, and began building a multiverse and created the life therein. He even commented how it was just like him willing Coast City from nothing just on a much larger scale. Seems pretty godlike.
What I'm saying isn't 'up to interpretation', I'm simply saying what happened in the comic, the quotes from it, and the describing the pictures there-in.
You're just reaching on a comment of him having chronal energy.
Likewise it doesn't mention anywhere that he's simply messing with time, but instead creating a universe, the light, the life, and everything, from nothing.
Later on Waverider says Hal is using plasma energy to create the new universe. Got a conspiracy theory on that one too?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Creating a universe? Nope. He was manipulating time to replay the creation event. Thats a big difference.
Agreed , i have yet to see anything to suggest that Pharallax is anywhere near as powerful as a Galactus or a Abstract level being. Mind Zero hour was the biggest load shite i have read !!!!! (With the exception of of OWAW / Phoenix Endsong 😖hifty: )
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix showed she can actually cut away at time itself. She amputated 616's future and carried it away beyond reality. Time is nothing to Phoenix she is not bound by it so an attack achieved through time manipulation would be useless.
Ok which book are these feats featured in, cos the Morisson, Endsong and Claremount Phoenix never had this type of power.
Originally posted by R.O.T. YahmanAfter they replaced defeated and powerless Hal with the all powerful one in the timestream at the end of the Zero Hour, no he wasn't as powerful as full powered Galactus or characters on that level or up.
Agreed , i have yet to see anything to suggest that Pharallax is anywhere near as powerful as a Galactus or a Abstract level being. Mind Zero hour was the biggest load shite i have read !!!!!
In that storyline though, he was pretty much Godlike, almost had his own multiverse.
Now answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA?
Originally posted by Juntai
After they replaced defeated and powerless Hal with the all powerful one in the timestream at the end of the Zero Hour, no he wasn't as powerful as full powered Galactus or characters on that level or up.In that storyline though, he was pretty much Godlike, almost had his own multiverse.
Now answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA? :
I have no idea, but that is interesting none the less. The ending of Zero hour is incrediblly ambiguos, but on the matter of creating minor universes; didn't the D.C. Odin once do something simillar ? He created a type of Limbo, in which the JSA where trapped for a period of time ?
Originally posted by R.O.T. YahmanI don't think its a full fledged creation like Hal was doing, more of a pocket dimension that Odin created, as Odin is more considered up with Highfather in power that anyone creating realities.
I have no idea, but that is interesting none the less. The ending of Zero hour is incrediblly ambiguos, but on the matter of creating minor universes; didn't the D.C. Odin once do something simillar ? He created a type of Limbo, in which the JSA where trapped for a period of time ?
It just so amazed me the hateration I see about the Hal Jordan's feat. he did much more on panel than Thanos ever did with the IG. Thanos didn't wipe reality away. Chronal Energy alone cannot do what Hal did. Exant is the wearer of the Worlogog. Which is like having the time gem and power gem in one. And he couldn't do what hal was doing. Chronal energy alone is not enough to create "new" universes. Only enough to rewrite something that is already there. If people read the tie ins to zero hour as well as the main book, they would know that he had more than chronal enery. Why the hell would he need the Oa battery for just "Chronal" energy? does that make sense? ION2 used the energy from oa to literally create the guardians all over again. He didn't rewind time. He made hundreds of Upper lvl Sky father beings out of that energy. and then refilled the Oa battery back up. That wasn't chronal energy was it? It was the same energy that parallax had. Come on people, put those thinking caps on and connect the dots.
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.
Don't you get it?
He's twisting the On Panel evidence to demean Ion's power, ensuring the Phoenix victory.
From those scans, Ion would obliterate the White Phoenix of the Crown.
Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or created even a single Universe on panel.
In it's Natural State the Phoenix Can NOT be used in a Versus Thread.
Because it is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence
The Phoenix Force tells Rachel, "ALL I have become, You ARE Too"
"My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit, the Burden of Power, will be YOURS"
The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State
Phoenix Force itself told Rachel, " You are the ONE TRUE PHOENIX"
Phoenix Force was manipulated in it's entirety.
Don't be so surprised, it's not the first time the Phoenix Force has been USED and ABUSED
The Actual PHOENIX FORCE again is Manipulated
"an Ancient Crippled Alien Construct brought the PHOENIX FORCE here by WRENCHING it through the Space/Time Continuum from ITS NATIVE UNIVERSE"
Feron, a Mortal STUDENT of Magic Exploited the Phoenix
It ONLY took him a decade to perform this Feat.
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:
A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF
Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF
Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
