Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF
Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
Ouch.
Teh pwnage is served pipin' hot.
Originally posted by JuntaiNow answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA?
Did he actually create another one or did he say he was going to? I cant remember.
Either way didnt the JSA come from another reality anyway? Wasnt Parallax making use of disruptions in reality left over from Crisis? A time period when the JSA had their own reality.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Don't you get it?He's twisting the On Panel evidence to demean Ion's power, ensuring the Phoenix victory.
From those scans, Ion would obliterate the White Phoenix of the Crown.
Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or created even a single Universe on panel.
Nope. Youre on an anti Phoenix campaign because you see Phoenix as a threat to your Beyonder fantasies.
Im not twisting on panel evidence in the slightest. Ion says he used chronal energy to do everything. He states that on panel therefore we know everything he did involved time manipulation. Thats all 😉
Originally posted by Mr Master
In it's Natural State the Phoenix Can NOT be used in a Versus Thread.Because it is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence
So the simple solution is to not use the Force in its natural state 😕
Noone does.
Thats different to saying you cant use the Phoenix Force in debates.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force tells Rachel, "ALL I have become, You ARE Too""My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit, the Burden of Power, will be YOURS"
So what is your point? All the Phoenix has become (i.e all its learned since it evolved a Consciousness) is Rachels because it is bonded to her. However it also says accept my limitations dont be seduced by the infinite of life unborn. It is canon that after the Dark Phoenix Saga the Phoenix learned from its mistakes and when bonded to Rachel allowed her to access its power in limited amounts. That line supports that. Rachel never has had full access to the Force.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State
Common knowledge. Which is why the Phoenix in its natural state isnt used in battle, it would be like pitting someone against the Infinity Gauntlet without a wielder.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix Force itself told Rachel, " You are the ONE TRUE PHOENIX"
Puzzling comment given that its continuity that Jean is the one true Phoenix the actual MBody of the Phoenix Force as per recent sources such as New X-men and Endsong. Please bear in mind that Excalibur is over ten years old. Revisions have been made, revisions you unfortunatly for your argument have overlooked.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix Force was manipulated in it's entirety.[QUOTE=7485687]Originally posted by Mr Master
[B]Don't be so surprised, it's not the first time the Phoenix Force has been USED and ABUSEDThe Actual PHOENIX FORCE again is Manipulated
"an Ancient Crippled Alien Construct brought the PHOENIX FORCE here by WRENCHING it through the Space/Time Continuum from ITS NATIVE UNIVERSE"
The firebird is not the sum total of the Phoenix. Your poor knowledge of the Phoenix character is what leads you to make such flawed arguments. The firebird is a Celestial avatar. It is a representation of the Phoenix Force, a manifestation of the life force of reality, NOT the sum total of the Phoenix Force in one spot. The Phoenix Force is all life, if it gathered together in its totality in that firebird form then there would be no life anywhere else.
Being a shard of the Phoenix Force doesnt stop that shard being called the Phoenix Force. The Just look at Endsong for example, that was only a Phoenix shard.
In Phoenix resurrection this firebird this representation of the life force of 616 flew into the Ultraverse where it was depowered and considerably weaker.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Feron, a Mortal STUDENT of Magic Exploited the PhoenixIt ONLY took him a decade to perform this Feat.
Nope, Feron communed with the Phoenix and it gave him aid. 🙂
And im the one who twists statements to fit in with my argument? 😕
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It just so amazed me the hateration I see about the Hal Jordan's feat. he did much more on panel than Thanos ever did with the IG. Thanos didn't wipe reality away. Chronal Energy alone cannot do what Hal did. Exant is the wearer of the Worlogog. Which is like having the time gem and power gem in one. And he couldn't do what hal was doing. Chronal energy alone is not enough to create "new" universes. Only enough to rewrite something that is already there. If people read the tie ins to zero hour as well as the main book, they would know that he had more than chronal enery. Why the hell would he need the Oa battery for just "Chronal" energy? does that make sense? ION2 used the energy from oa to literally create the guardians all over again. He didn't rewind time. He made hundreds of Upper lvl Sky father beings out of that energy. and then refilled the Oa battery back up. That wasn't chronal energy was it? It was the same energy that parallax had. Come on people, put those thinking caps on and connect the dots.
Trust me im not hating im just going by what was stated. Parallax stated in Zero Hour that he was achieving all of this creation, everything he was doing via CHRONAL energy, thereore it was via time manipulation. Theres no debating that point, who are any of us to argue with that point?
With that in mind im interpreting everything he did with that point (about the chronal energy achieving everything) in mind. When thats done it means that he was manipulating time, events from the timeline to create. He wasnt doing it off his own back he was making use of what was already there and tailoring it to suit his vision.
Im not denying that Parallax has other powers, because i know he does however thats besides the point. The crux of the matter is that all of the creation he did in Zero Hour was via Chronal energy as he stated.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Ouch.Teh pwnage is served pipin' hot.
If you know nothng about the Phoenix besides hearsay then yes you could be excused for thinking so.
Actually read up on the Phoenix and you'll see there are circumstances behind the events in these scans.
These very carefully selected scans which conveniently give no background info.
Thankfully im around to do just that. 😱
Good day to you. 😮💨
So with all of that in mind, if Ion was to go against the Phoenix, time manipulation would be a futile exercise against a being who can snip away at time itself.
Again one of us versus a mod. ❌
Any matter and energy (other than chronal) feats to show hes actually worthy of Phoenixes time? She's a busy gal 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you know nothng about the Phoenix besides hearsay then yes you could be excused for thinking so.Actually read up on the Phoenix and you'll see there are circumstances behind the events in these scans.
These very carefully selected scans which conveniently give no background info.
Thankfully im around to do just that. 😱
Good day to you. 😮💨
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
cause everytime Phoenix get's owned it is a plot device
Ive already explained this. Its actually canon that after the M'kraan crystal event she cut off her power to levels practical for everyday use on Earth.
Therefore using a scan where she was under those circumstances as representative of how Phoenix would perform in battle when not under those circumstances is a futile exercise. ✅
Anything else? 😕
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
oh so if it is not a plot device then she is depowered that time now I get it 😆
Nope. A plot device was introduced so that Phoenix could be kept on to the X-men team. She depowered herself, she erected psychic circuit breakers in her mind to cut off her power. Simple as that.
Theres no time in continuity where the full Phoenix Force has gone up against something and lost.
Its just how it is and im relating that to you son. Dont hate me for it. 😕
Oh so these guys are not handling the Phoenix force they are just pretending like that
Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF
Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Oh so these guys are not handling the Phoenix force they are just pretending like that
Have you actually bothered to read my post pertaining to those scans or have you just overlooked it because it was too wordy for your attention span? 😕
The Firebird isnt the full Phoenix Force, it is a Celestial avatar a representation of the life force of 616. Each universe has one of those firebirds. They are manifestations of the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room.
The Phoenix Force is life, if it gathered together in one spot in that firebird form there would be no life anywhere else.
Being a part of the Phoenix Force doesnt stop that part being called the Phoenix Force.
The firebrd in that scan is depowered because it is within another reality, a reality different to the one it draws power from.
So once again those scans depict a weak Phoenix. Such a Phoenix isnt the type that we're debating about in versus matches. In versus matches we use the characters at the height of their abilities able to employ all their abilities.
In a versus match the Phoenix isnt going to have psychic circuit breakers cutting off her power
Not going to have work to do necessitating her departure from reality
Not going to be just a shard lost in an alternate universe and therefore depowered.
