Free Will and Religion

This has been touched upon in other threads, but I don't know whether there's actually a thread with this as the primary topic.

Free will is the ability to make choices under your own discretion.
Many major (particularly monotheistic) religions are denoted by gods whom have omniscience, omnipotence and infallibility.
Under the premise of such a god, time is preordained, meaning all choices are preordained.
Such belief systems therefore logically preclude free will.

Are you religious? Do you believe in free will? How do you incorporate this free will paradox into your belief system?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This has been touched upon in other threads, but I don't know whether there's actually a thread with this as the primary topic.

Free will is the ability to make choices under your own discretion.
Many major (particularly monotheistic) religions are denoted by gods whom have omniscience, omnipotence and infallibility.
Under the premise of such a god, time is preordained, meaning all choices are preordained.
Such belief systems therefore logically preclude free will.

Are you religious? Do you believe in free will? How do you incorporate this free will paradox into your belief system?

Originally posted by Nellinator
This is what I consider the hardest question to answer. It is very complex. I personally believe that God gives us the freedom to do as we choose. Jesus died so that we could be reconciled when we sin in our free will. However, I believe that God knows what decisions we will make before we make them, therefore, he knows our destination before we are born. Yet, we are still born because the free will of at least one of our parents to have sex. It is very hard to explain exactly what my beliefs on the matter are, but that was the best I could do before I got bored. I don't even think I really answered the question...

Ah, but should we have sin at all? Are we not inflicted by the inability not to sin due to the actions of Adam and Eve? Our species essentially carries the brand of sin due to their actions?

I have said it before - that doesn't sound much like free will if we are automatically judged sinful unless we follow Jesus who did something for us once again regardless of whether we wanted to or not? Really it seems to be rail roading - you have free will, sure, but because of Adam and Eve this is irrelevant as nothing you do will save you unless you accept Jesus, who sacrificed himself for you, regardless of your thoughts on the subject.

Good question!We all have free well so our sins is our choice but we know better then to sin or we will go to hell.JM

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This has been touched upon in other threads, but I don't know whether there's actually a thread with this as the primary topic.

Free will is the ability to make choices under your own discretion.
Many major (particularly monotheistic) religions are denoted by gods whom have omniscience, omnipotence and infallibility.
Under the premise of such a god, time is preordained, meaning all choices are preordained.
Such belief systems therefore logically preclude free will.

Are you religious? Do you believe in free will? How do you incorporate this free will paradox into your belief system?

I am not religious in a sense that I follow Abrahamic religion.

I do have a belief system however which in fact consists of free will entirely. I am heavily into Buddhism, but since my roots and traditions are Pagan, I sort of incorporate that into my belief as well.

I like to believe that there are parallel universes, with all the possible outcomes of our choices. This idea overwhelms me, and I quite like it.

Choice is somewhat of an illusion in my opinion, if looked at objectively.

We want to believe we have something called "free will". But let's say we choose vanilla ice cream over chocolate. Everything involved in that decision, from the larger events down to the microscopic exchanges of electrical energy in our brain patterns, has a cause that directly preceded it that determined what it would be. The choice could only be "vanilla" because the state of the universe preceding the choice would allow for no other logical conclusion. We perceive a choice, but in fact the choice has already been determined....we only have to act it out.

I read a Buddhist describe the concept once (the following is paraphrased heavily, though I think I retain the central meaning) who wrote incredulously of the idea that anything can exist outside the effects of cause and effect. Such a thing could not exist, he explains, and even the idea of free will is not independent of causes that precede it.

The idea of free will, in many religions, is centered around ideas of God, justice, a soul, etc. and will not allow for the possibility that we are completely determined in our actions.

It's unfortunate, because many would revolt against a notion of determinism without stopping to realize that even in such a universe, a pre-destined life does nothing to strip life of its joy, wonder, and inherent potential for happiness.

So yeah, I think free will is rather false. We're all part of a unified (and utterly pre-determined) system that works harmoniously together to create itself. The universe couldn't be any other way than it is, but there is a beauty and power knowing that we are as intrinsic to the state of the universe as it is to our own being. Truly, we are one.

...that's my view at least.

🙂

Some very nicely thought out responses. Well 4/5 ain't bad.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I like to believe that there are parallel universes, with all the possible outcomes of our choices. This idea overwhelms me, and I quite like it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's unfortunate, because many would revolt against a notion of determinism without stopping to realize that even in such a universe, a pre-destined life does nothing to strip life of its joy, wonder, and inherent potential for happiness.

So yeah, I think free will is rather false. We're all part of a unified (and utterly pre-determined) system that works harmoniously together to create itself. The universe couldn't be any other way than it is, but there is a beauty and power knowing that we are as intrinsic to the state of the universe as it is to our own being. Truly, we are one.

...that's my view at least.

🙂

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you religious? Do you believe in free will? How do you incorporate this free will paradox into your belief system?

A) Yeah, I'm religous but as much as I should be.

B) Yes

C) I do what I feel like doing.

BRILLIANT! 😐

Orale!

You have all heard the Age Old Argument

If God knows the future, then how could we truly have Free Will ?

To have Free Will means we have a choice. It means we always have a choice. To have a choice means we can live any one out of infinite possibilities....the result is ours to decide.

Many say that God knows all, including the future, including our Fates. Nastrodomous, Book of Revelations makes it clear that God sees into the future of this world, and the future of Humanity.

But if God can see the future, then how could we possibly have any choice ? If God knows what choice we are going to make, then how do we truly have a choice ?

If God always knows what we are going to do, then that means we will ONLY do what God sees us doing....there is no way we will do something else, there is NO WAY we will make any other choice, only the action that God sees us doing in his sight.

So that means all other possibilities are gone, because those other results will NEVER OCCUR...ONLY the ONE God SEES us doing...

That's not a choice then....

This argument has gone on forever and ever.....

However, what if there are Alternate Realities ?

If Alternate Realities exist within the concept and beleif in God, then this could very well verify that:

1) We have Free Will

AND

2) That God can see our future

If there are Alternate Realities, then there are numerous choices being made and existing....therefore, we DO make choices, and God will still have the power to see what those choices are.....

It may sound confusing, but this would allow God to see into a spectrum of realities (futures) that exist, and know which roads we (and our alternate selves) are taking.

The only problem with this hypothesis is that it means we exist in fragments, and that only peices of us will enter Heaven or Hell, or even both at the same time.

I think that God can see many alternative realities, however, he knows which is true.

😖

Originally posted by Nellinator
I think that God can see many alternative realities, however, he knows which is true.

That does not make any sense.

If Alternate Realities exist, then they are ALL "true"

Oops, I meant to say 'all alternative possibilites'. Sorry 'bout that.

The best answer is: Christian mythology was made up by humans who do not understand the true nature of reality.

No it is not.

Originally posted by Nellinator
No it is not.

In the face of no evidence, the simpler answer is more likely the correct answer.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The best answer is: Christian mythology was made up by humans who do not understand the true nature of reality.

As much as I agree with you Shaky, that's not the discussion here. This discussion is under the assumption that there is a God, and if so, is Alternate Realities the best possible answer to explain how God could see the future and how we could still have true choices.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
As much as I agree with you Shaky, that's not the discussion here. This discussion is under the assumption that there is a God, and if so, is Alternate Realities the best possible answer to explain how God could see the future and how we could still have true choices.

I cannot abide under this oppression. 😱

Whatever you say. 😂