Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
We'll see when the Live Action Series or some new edition of the movies are made. Vader shouldn't be said to be slow due to the technology of the movies.
Well, he IS so said to be. That is the option GL took. They looked slow, so therefore they WERE slow, and so he gave it a plot reason.
and we will decide when the tv series comes out,
so last question, because movies ar higher canon, so that means luke is still slow by lotf am i correct?
Originally posted by Blax X
Yeah it does, Vader knwos it, hell, even Sids says that Vader got screwed in terms of his fighting ability once he got put in the suit.
true, he was suppose to be twice as powerful and thus the most poweful force user ever, and crimson empire proves his agility in the EU, not canon? NEC confirms CE is canon
still, movies are higher canon as we all say, and you cant simply "overwrite" other canon, it would get into a debate, if CE contradicts with the movie, lucasarts good friend leland chee would have come out with a statement saying so, so at the moment, no statement = no contradiction = vader not slow
and vader the ultimate guide shows vader fightning wit ha jar kai practitioner, if he was that slow, good bye vader you die.
and so, does form V look so moronic just because it appeared in the OT? thus it being in the movie? vaders style doesnt look form v at all neither does anh obiwan looks soresu, both their styles look the same
Originally posted by ESB Vader
still, movies are higher canon as we all say, and you cant simply "overwrite" other canon,
Yes, they can.
For example, the TPM novelization says that Maul did a backflip over the shaft when dueling one on one with Qui-Gon, this is thusly trumped by the movie and is completely disregarded. Canon material can be overwritten as you say, save for the movies which only Lucas has authority over. Another example would be SotME, which RODV and the ROTS Visual Dictionary hold precedent over in the matter of Vader using Force lightning.
it would get into a debate, if CE contradicts with the movie, lucasarts good friend leland chee would have come out with a statement saying so, so at the moment, no statement = no contradiction = vader not slow
This couldn't be more wrong. Leland Chee is not obligated to address every single contradiction to the public, unless asked. Things that are blatantly contradicting and any other problems, and canon are in the Holocron, which is not viewable by the public.
Just because he doesn't state it anywhere, doesn't mean it isn't there. I doubt you'd find a quote that said Vader using Force lightning in SotME was non-continuity until it was asked (aside from the fact it's obvious), so this is obviously more proof of the fact that they have everything down, but are not obligated to list every single thing.
So, Vader, is indeed, still slow.
and vader the ultimate guide shows vader fightning wit ha jar kai practitioner, if he was that slow, good bye vader you die.
Not really. If Vader were to use two lightsabers, would he thus be fast?
Answer: No.
Ergo, it's not viable to say his opponent was even faster. And it's not to say that Vader can't block fast swings, as I'd gauge Luke's baseball swings as fast, yet Vader was able to block them until getting plainly overpowered, that is.
yea but being slow is like wtf, you get wtf pwned, and im suprised vader because of the movies is now nothing more than a weak sith lord whos slow, only strong in the force, only thing he is good at his his mastery of form v, so i think he compensates by custamising his saber style, the way he fights compansates that,
and advent werent you the one who mentioned vaders agility in the flash back of CE? are we going to destroy everything mentioned about vader in the ultimate guide, in rodv, in CE and vs the dark woman? for the sake of the movies? then why the hell bother to write about vader? why the hell bother to help vader any way if the movies overwrite everything said about vader?
some people say "o vader is slow in the movies, EU is sh!t hes so weak"
im getting sick and tired of it so why not we make vader no stronger than an ordinary sith?
First of all, the term 'ordinary' and 'Sith' does not go together! Sith are extraordinary by default
Secondly- "yea but being slow is like wtf, you get wtf pwned".
Well, not necessarily- Windu was not a hyperfast fighter either. But... yes, Vader would be easily beaten by a PT era sabre fighter.
But thirdly, and most importantly... this idea that Vader is diminished by all this stuff is a nonsense that must be immediately stomped upon.
Vader is one of the greatest screen villains of all time. To link how decent a villain is to simply how 'powerful' he is, is almost a crime ad displays a very bad mentaility.
No matter how many powerful EU Sith you can reel off that for some reason irks you that they are more powerful than him, the fact of the matter is that Vader is still a better villain, a better personality... a better creation than any single one of them.
More power does not a great villain make.
Originally posted by ESB VaderVader in the movies is slow. Since movies are the ultimate canon, Vader is slow, at least compared to most other sabre-wielders.
well still vader in his suit beat 7 jedi masters in the cg books, well 4 of em, that proves one thing to me, being slow doesnt mean some one faster can kill you and yet a slow guy killed fast jedis
If Vader can beat said Jedi Masters outside the movies, it means one of a few things. a) It contradicts the movies and is wrong, b) Those Jedi Masters really sucked, or c) Vader has gotten slower and less powerful over the years.
Face it, Vader, by the time of the OT, is a slow-poke.
i think you need to face it, it does not contradict with the movies,
and since you say the movies are ultimate canon so i guess we are going to accept luke is still slow by lotf since it contradicts with the movies am i correct? contradictions will result in statements being made and so far NO STATEMENT has been made
o and so we are going to throw all the EU about vader in the trashbin?
go tell that to james luceno ok? tell him that what ever happened in rodv CE or what ever EU is pure bull shit, contradiction? then that means RODV, after math of ROTS and CE all does not apply to timeline?
the scripts for the ANH already said obi wan countered with lightning speed, it could not be potrayed, so what? the script for ROTS is "anakin fought with inhuman speed faster than the speed of light?"
Originally posted by Tangible God
If Vader can beat said Jedi Masters outside the movies, it means one of a few things. a) It contradicts the movies and is wrong, b) Those Jedi Masters really sucked, or c) Vader has gotten slower and less powerful over the years.
again prove that, prove they sucked, prove they contradicted with the movies, and by the way, vader is stronger than anakin in ROTS accept it, may be slower but not weaker, weaker than FPA i agree but not anakin in ROTS
Originally posted by ESB VaderLuke, in the span of that many years, improved. Vader, in the span of 19 years, got worse. Movies are the ultimate canon next to GL himself. If Vader is slow in the movies, then Vader is slow in the movies. If he was fast before, it means he got slower, hence--worse.
i think you need to face it, it does not contradict with the movies,and since you say the movies are ultimate canon so i guess we are going to accept luke is still slow by lotf since it contradicts with the movies am i correct? contradictions will result in statements being made and so far NO STATEMENT has been made
Originally posted by ESB VaderIf GL says Vader getting crushed by a planet kills hum, then it'd kill him. If EU says he could transport it to another dimension, then it contradicts the movies, and is discluded. Again, in the span of the 19 years, Vader could have very well decreased in speed. Actually he obviously did. Since your so vehement in saying Vader was fast before ANH, you must realize that by the time of the movies, his speed decreased substantially. Why that is, I have no idea, but it happened. The only other argument is that he was ALWAYS that slow.
o and so we are going to throw all the EU about vader in the trashbin?
go tell that to james luceno ok? tell him that what ever happened in rodv CE or what ever EU is pure bull shit, contradiction? then that means RODV, after math of ROTS and CE all does not apply to timeline?
Originally posted by ESB VaderYou want a contradiction to the movies, you already mentioned it. I never read the ROTS novelization, but if it actually said that "Anakin fought faster than the speed of light," it's wrong, since my human eyes were able to follow every move of his saber. And Obi-Wan fighting with lightning speed... that didn't look like lightning speed, that looked like well coordinated series and precise jabs, prods and swings. Besides the fact that "lightning speed" is a well used figure of speech in literature and shouldn't be interpreted literally.
the scripts for the ANH already said obi wan countered with lightning speed, it could not be potrayed, so what? the script for ROTS is "anakin fought with inhuman speed faster than the speed of light?"again prove that, prove they sucked, prove they contradicted with the movies, and by the way, vader is stronger than anakin in ROTS accept it, may be slower but not weaker, weaker than FPA i agree but not anakin in ROTS
Jesus tap-dancing Christ, if the movie does one thing, and other, NON-movie pieces of SW say it differently, the movie is taken as correct. Is it really that hard to accept?
Originally posted by ESB Vader
i think you need to face it, it does not contradict with the movies,and since you say the movies are ultimate canon so i guess we are going to accept luke is still slow by lotf since it contradicts with the movies am i correct? contradictions will result in statements being made and so far NO STATEMENT has been made
Now you're just being stupid. Luke is slow in the OT. LOTF takes place long after the OT. There's a difference. The EU that Vader is in all takes place BEFORE the OT. Get your timeline straight.
o and so we are going to throw all the EU about vader in the trashbin?
go tell that to james luceno ok? tell him that what ever happened in rodv CE or what ever EU is pure bull shit, contradiction? then that means RODV, after math of ROTS and CE all does not apply to timeline?
What the **** are you rambling about now?
the scripts for the ANH already said obi wan countered with lightning speed, it could not be potrayed, so what? the script for ROTS is "anakin fought with inhuman speed faster than the speed of light?"
I fail to see your point here. George Lucas' word goes above the movies and script, in any case. If he says ANH Kenobi is slow, then ANH Kenobi is slow compared to ROTS Anakin.
again prove that, prove they sucked, prove they contradicted with the movies, and by the way, vader is stronger than anakin in ROTS accept it, may be slower but not weaker, weaker than FPA i agree but not anakin in ROTS [/B]
There's a difference between 'sucked' and 'slow.'
You're just being a nuisance now, and your argument is totally biased...
yes biased because some people cannot accept the fact that vader is fast in the EU and that no statement came out there was a contradiction
and tangible god, show me the exact quote of lucas saying vader is slow by the time of the movies? show me the exact quote, no?
all of you prove to me tha lucas said vader is slow, no exact quote = i stick to the EU = im not convinced, again lucas stated in the TPM dvd that at the time of the OT when he made them, he didnt feature how the jedi really fight, and obi wan is a real jedi point moot
What GL meant in TPM commentary was that the PT jedi were at the top of their form. They were strongest they had been for ages. In the OT we visibly see on the movies they are slow. Now if GL hadnt given us a reason to why they are slow then we could pass it off as technology. But he says that it is because Vader is a machine, Kenobi is old, Yoda is out of practise etc. These our perfectly valid explanations and our canon. It is not because of bad technology that Vader is slow, but because GL said that he is a machine. EU is irrelevant because the speeds contradict and the movies will take priority because of this.