Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Here is one of my posts concerning the definition of idolatry.

And my post is about the definition you used...

I will restate my points again :

Budhha, Brahma, etc... are not idols. They are not inanimate objects or any created thing.... they do not classify as idols...

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;"

Based on the verse above, we can conclude :

If paintings, statues,... of anything that is in heaven above is idolatry, so the church, or anyone that uses images commits idolatry since they use them...

Your sig. will be idolatry since it is a image of the legs of Jesus.

^ So will we be posting the same two posts over and over again? 😆

Well... what to do ? 😆

As long as there are the "Us and them' there will never be peace...............Not ever!! We must unite in some way to bring peace everywhere..........other Wise will be in this 2000 turmoil.............eh?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
And my post is about the definition you used...

I will restate my points again :

Budhha, Brahma, etc... are not idols. They are not inanimate objects or any created thing.... they do not classify as idols...

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;"

Based on the verse above, we can conclude :

If paintings, statues,... of anything that is in heaven above is idolatry, so the church, or anyone that uses images commits idolatry since they use them...

Your sig. will be idolatry since it is a image of the legs of Jesus.

Originally posted by debbiejo
JIA doesn't talk to me anymore......... 🙁

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In the New Covenant (or New Testament) idolaltry includes anything that we esteem, admire, or value above or more than God.

Verse?

Originally posted by Strangelove
Beacuse you're an idolatrous heathen

And there is something wrong with that? 😕 😆

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The name of God doesn´t matter to the questions I am asking. Call it X if you want !

The thread is about idolatry, not about the how we should call God.

* ooopps, sorry, got carried away... i just want to say that the name of God is the tetragrammaton YHWH and not Jehovah... and we should call God as "Father"... so there... 🙂

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Interesting... so you agree that the trinity is idolatry ?

* yes, i do... and the verse mr.jesusisalive gave -> I John 5:7 is NOT included in the original manuscripts of the Bible... 😉

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And there is something wrong with that? 😕 😆

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Verse?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In the New Covenant (or New Testament) idolaltry includes anything that we esteem, admire, or value above or more than God.

You need to understand what idolatry is. Idolatry is worshipping any thing or anyone other than God. In the Israelites day they relapsed many times into the worship of idols (literal objects of worship). But under the New Testament the heart of a person has become the focal point of a person's walk with God. So if your heart esteems any person or thing above God then that constitutes idolatry. This principle can be found in the following Scripture verses.

Mark 12:30
And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength .’ This is the first commandment.

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Originally posted by Strangelove
to JIA....✅

Well, I am not sure what I should do about that. It took me a lot of my life to get over what those Christians did to me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And there is something wrong with that? 😕 😆

Originally posted by peejayd
* ooopps, sorry, got carried away... i just want to say that the name of God is the tetragrammaton YHWH and not Jehovah... and we should call God as "Father"... so there... 🙂

Ok, np.

* yes, i do... and the verse mr.jesusisalive gave -> I John 5:7 is NOT included in the original manuscripts of the Bible... 😉

Good to know....

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You need to understand what idolatry is. Idolatry is worshipping any thing or anyone other than God. In the Israelites day they relapsed many times into the worship of idols (literal objects of worship). But under the New Testament the heart of a person has become the focal point of a person's walk with God. So if your heart esteems any person or thing above God then that constitutes idolatry. This principle can be found in the following Scripture verses.

Mark 12:30
And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength .’ This is the first commandment.

[B]Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. [/B]

The verses do only refer to things of the world, pride of life, lust of flesh, etc... and persons....

Budhha and Brahma are not things of the world, neither they are persons. Actually they oppose completely the things of the world, they are symbols of trancendence of the material world.

And if graven images of anything that is in heaven above is idolatry, the church or anyone who uses images commits idolatry, your sig. is idolatry. How this is explained ?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The verses do only refer to things of the world, pride of life, lust of flesh, etc... and persons....

Budhha and Brahma are not things of the world, neither they are persons. Actually they oppose completely the things of the world, they are symbols of trancendence of the material world.

And if graven images of anything that is in heaven above is idolatry, the church or anyone who uses images commits idolatry, your sig. is idolatry. How this is explained ?

In Old Testament, namely in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy the Lord God reveals the Ten Commandments. But the Lord revealed many other laws that the Israelites were required to abide by. God told them more than just ten things folks. The Lord gave them civil laws, laws for the Levites as it pertained to the ceremonial rites. They were given criminal laws. So having said all of that I will now address your question. Let us look at Exodus 20:3-5

Exodus 20:3-5
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to [i.e. worship] them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

The Lord God by His Word reveals (specifically to the children of Israel, but this applies to us today) we are not to make for ourselves a carved image. That is what graven means, “carved.” So a graven image is a carved figure of wood or stone. But this includes anything that is regarded by anyone as an object of worship. This is the crux of the whole matter with respect to idols. God prohibits us from worshipping anyone or anything other than Him. Remember: God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and these Three are One (i.e. one God).

Now, where the Scripture says,

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

heaven in this context does not mean the Heaven of Heavens (i.e. the third Heaven where God is), it denotes the second heaven (i.e. outer space). So what God is saying through His Word is that we must not make any object of worship namely anything in the likeness of celestial or astronomical things. We must not make any object of worship from anything this is in the earth beneath (i.e. trees, vegetation, or anything that is physically in the earth). We must not make any object of worship from anything that is in the water under the earth (i.e. sea creatures). This is what God meant. I emphasize the word worship because that is the underlying issue with images and likenesses. God does not want us to worship things in the heavens (stars, planets, the sun, the sky, etc.), things in the earth (i.e. trees, vegetation, this encompasses human beings, all animals, and insects—all creatures are included). God leaves no thing or person out.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

The Lord God is a jealous God, His glory He will not give to another, nor His praise to carved images. God’s glory is a manifestation of His power, nature, goodness, love, wisdom, presence, character etc. The glory of God is not Who He is per se but rather revelations of God.

I have defined what a graven image is and I have described what the Lord meant by things in heaven, things in the earth, and things in the water under the earth. Go back and re-read the beginning of this article to review what I have written. A picture in a gospel tract does not constitute a graven image or likeness because it is not an object of worship. No one is treating the images therein as objects of worship. The purpose of a tract is to sow the seed of the gospel into the heart of someone. Remember: God weighs the hearts of individuals. The intent of the heart of the person who makes a tract with images has nothing at all to do with worshipping the images. The images are merely a vehicle as it were. The images illustrate the gospel message, they were not designed or intended to be worshipped. That is why I underscored the word worship at the outset of this post because that is the problem with graven (i.e. carved) images and likenesses that make them taboo as far as God is concerned. Dissemination of gospel tracts is not worship of the images therein nor is it idolatry. The Lord Jesus Christ commanded His church to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. There are many ways to do this. This can be done verbally, over the internet, or through film, video, dvd, cd, cassette, any many other media including literature such as gospel tracts. I believe all of these methods are sanctioned by God.

In Old Testament, namely in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy the Lord God reveals the Ten Commandments. But the Lord revealed may other laws that the Israelites were required to abide by. God told them [Quote]more than just ten things folks. The Lord gave them civil laws, laws for the Levites as it pertained to the ceremonial rites. They were given criminal laws. So having said all of that I will now address your question. Let us look at Exodus 20:3-5

Rom. 11:17-20

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.

Originally posted by debbiejo
According to the NT we are graphed into the OLD tree (Jews).......So you should be following EVERYTHING in the OT.

Rom. 11:17-20

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be [B]grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. [/B]

Hebrews 8:6
But now He [i.e. Jesus Christ] has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

You are mistaken Debbiejoe. You do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. We have a better covenant through Jesus Christ, and it is established upon better promises. The only law we are under is the law of love. For or because love is the fulfillment of the law.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill. Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses two ways: First, Jesus Christ fulfilled the law literally through keeping every iota, precept, and command of the Law. Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirement of the Law to the tee as they say in modern colloquialism. Jesus Christ is the only Man to keep the Law of Moses fully. Second, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law in its spiritual (i.e. originating in the heart) sense (i.e. its true, intended sense). The zenith, culmination, or apex of the Law is attained through love, not through the letter of the law which is a catalog of legalistic prohibitions, and dos and don'ts. Jesus teaches how to fulfill the law today. We have only one commandment out of all that God told the children of Israel:

Romans 13:9-10
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He [i.e. Jesus Christ] has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

You are mistaken Debbiejoe. You do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. We have a better covenant through Jesus Christ, and it is established upon better promises. The only law we are under is the law of love. For or because love is the fulfillment of the law.

*looks around* Heaven and Earth are still here.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

In Old Testament, namely in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy the Lord God reveals the Ten Commandments. But the Lord revealed many other laws that the Israelites were required to abide by. God told them more than just ten things folks. The Lord gave them civil laws, laws for the Levites as it pertained to the ceremonial rites. They were given criminal laws. So having said all of that I will now address your question. Let us look at Exodus 20:3-5

[b]Exodus 20:3-5
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to [i.e. worship] them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

The Lord God by His Word reveals (specifically to the children of Israel, but this applies to us today) we are not to make for ourselves a carved image. That is what graven means, “carved.” So a graven image is a carved figure of wood or stone. But this includes anything that is regarded by anyone as an object of worship. This is the crux of the whole matter with respect to idols. God prohibits us from worshipping anyone or anything other than Him. Remember: God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and these Three are One (i.e. one God).

Now, where the Scripture says,

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

heaven in this context does not mean the Heaven of Heavens (i.e. the third Heaven where God is), it denotes the second heaven (i.e. outer space). So what God is saying through His Word is that we must not make any object of worship namely anything in the likeness of celestial or astronomical things. We must not make any object of worship from anything this is in the earth beneath (i.e. trees, vegetation, or anything that is physically in the earth). We must not make any object of worship from anything that is in the water under the earth (i.e. sea creatures). This is what God meant. I emphasize the word worship because that is the underlying issue with images and likenesses. God does not want us to worship things in the heavens (stars, planets, the sun, the sky, etc.), things in the earth (i.e. trees, vegetation, this encompasses human beings, all animals, and insects—all creatures are included). God leaves no thing or person out.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

The Lord God is a jealous God, His glory He will not give to another, nor His praise to carved images. God’s glory is a manifestation of His power, nature, goodness, love, wisdom, presence, character etc. The glory of God is not Who He is per se but rather revelations of God.

I have defined what a graven image is and I have described what the Lord meant by things in heaven, things in the earth, and things in the water under the earth. Go back and re-read the beginning of this article to review what I have written. A picture in a gospel tract does not constitute a graven image or likeness because it is not an object of worship. No one is treating the images therein as objects of worship. The purpose of a tract is to sow the seed of the gospel into the heart of someone. Remember: God weighs the hearts of individuals. The intent of the heart of the person who makes a tract with images has nothing at all to do with worshipping the images. The images are merely a vehicle as it were. The images illustrate the gospel message, they were not designed or intended to be worshipped. That is why I underscored the word worship at the outset of this post because that is the problem with graven (i.e. carved) images and likenesses that make them taboo as far as God is concerned. Dissemination of gospel tracts is not worship of the images therein nor is it idolatry. The Lord Jesus Christ commanded His church to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. There are many ways to do this. This can be done verbally, over the internet, or through film, video, dvd, cd, cassette, any many other media including literature such as gospel tracts. I believe all of these methods are sanctioned by God.
[/B]

Heaven can be interpreted in other ways.... I don´t see why heaven in that verse should refer specifically to astronomic objects, even christians disagree in this... some of them use images and others don´t. There is people who interpretate it diffently.

Idolatry is also interpretated by people as the use of images or idols in the worship of God. In someplaces in the hebrew bible, it is said that God has no shape or form, thus no idol, image, idea, or anything comparable to creation could ever capture God's essence.

Deuteronomy 4 : 15-16

"You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,"

Anyway, as I see its a problem of different interpretations...