Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Started by Lord Urizen9 pages

Originally posted by Nellinator
Sorry about that last part. That was supposed to be 'when you don't KNOW these kind of things'. Meaning that if you don't know what deeds we do you probably shouldn't have made such a rash claim against us. And yes I have supported all these things at one point or another. Currently my money has been going to homeless shelters as my sister has now returned from Cambodia. I wish I still had connection to the project in Vietnam because it was producing some great results and ending a lot of poverty.

And do you do anything like this? I would be interested to know what causes everyone on the forum is supporting actually.

I donate to United Way and Children.org

I have donated whatever I could from time to time to research for AIDS/HIV, and to Breast Cancer foundations.

I wrote a report to my Congressman about banning Partial Birth Abortion, but that was long ago, so it means nothing now...

I also support Animal Rights Institutions....

Now keep in mind, I am a full time student, and I make barely above minimum wage....its not easy for me AT ALL to give what I make...in fact, it leaves me with very little in the end....i just have to keep in mind that my efforts made a difference in someone else's life, and in the end that's all that should matter.

While I am alive, i feel I should do all I can to try and make as many people as healthy and happy as possible.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I donate to United Way and Children.org

I have donated whatever I could from time to time to research for AIDS/HIV, and to Breast Cancer foundations.

I wrote a report to my Congressman about banning Partial Birth Abortion, but that was long ago, so it means nothing now...

I also support Animal Rights Institutions....

Now keep in mind, I am a full time student, and I make barely above minimum wage....its not easy for me AT ALL to give what I make...in fact, it leaves me with very little in the end....i just have to keep in mind that my efforts made a difference in someone else's life, and in the end that's all that should matter.

While I am alive, i feel I should do all I can to try and make as many people as healthy and happy as possible.


Its not the amount that you can give that is important, but the heart with which it is given. Good on you then! Money has not ever been in abundant supply for me yet, which is why I usually focus my money on certain projects at a time.
Not as an attack, but I personally feel that financially supporting animal rights is stupid in general as that money is far better spent on humans. That said, I am against animal cruelty and I think animal cruelty is usually some of the most sadistic stuff I've ever heard of.

Well, I'd say athiest charity is superior then.

Because you give out a serious desire to help your fellow men.

A Christians does it so he can get into heavan.

Originally posted by Alliance
A Christians does it so he can get into heavan.

That's poor giving and God hates that. Says so right in the Bible. God cares about the heart of giving not the giving. Neither is superior, however, motivations are superior to others.

Well, I'd like to think what you say is true.

Originally posted by Alliance
Well, I'd like to think what you say is true.

Then why don't you?

Because I don't believe it is in all cases.

Originally posted by Alliance
Because I don't believe it is in all cases.

You don't believe that motivation is what matters most?

Re: Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Jehovah is God.

Jesus is the son of God.... but he is worshipped as God and sometimes it is said that he IS God actually.... but at the same time, Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus is represented differently than Jehovah, they have different names, they are painted diffently in pictures, etc. and Jesus in the bible sometimes refer to God as another being separate from him. That all suggests Jesus and Jehovah are two separate persons.

[B]Question 1 : If there is just one GOD the supreme deity, why there is two different people, Jehovah and Jesus, both described as being GOD the supreme deity ?

Idolatry is defined as worship of an image, idea or object, as opposed to the worship of a supreme being(taken from wikipedia). Now, if GOD the supreme deity is represented in the image of a man know by the name of Jesus.

Question 2 : Isn´t the worship of Jesus... idolatry ? [/B]

I'm a Jehovah's Witness, and I'll just say that we believe that Jehovah is god, and Jesus is the first son of God, or otherwise, he was the first angel created by Jehovah.

It is a common misconception that people think we believe that Jesus IS god. He is far from it, he is merely the first angel Jehovah created.

Re: Re: Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Originally posted by Blax X
I'm a Jehovah's Witness, and I'll just say that we believe that Jehovah is god, and Jesus is the first son of God, or otherwise, he was the first angel created by Jehovah.

It is a common misconception that people think we believe that Jesus IS god. He is far from it, he is merely the first angel Jehovah created.


Why do you believe that?

Re: Re: Re: Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Originally posted by Nellinator
Why do you believe that?

Why shouldn't he? It seems only slightly less supported by the evidence as the people who claim he is, isn't etc.

It seems the Bible was awfully vague on the subject.

Could it be that the people who wrote it were unsure themselves?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why shouldn't he? It seems only slightly less supported by the evidence as the people who claim he is, isn't etc.

It seems the Bible was awfully vague on the subject.

Could it be that the people who wrote it were unsure themselves?


The Bible never says that Jesus was the first angel created by the Lord or anything near to it. There is no support for that at all as far as I know.

Originally posted by Alliance
Well, I'd say athiest charity is superior then.

Because you give out a serious desire to help your fellow men.

A Christians does it so he can get into heavan.

very well pointed out. The entire Christian perspective is based on selfishness.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i beg to disagree...

"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4

* upon salvation also comes the knowledge of truth...

* our belief or faith is a part or fraction on why we should be saved... another part of salvation is good works...

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2:26

* good works are very essential... in faith, we need to add so much things, not faith alone...

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
To knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
To godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love
.
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
II Peter 1:5-8

* the doctrine of Trinity is unbiblical, the passage I John 5:7 is really not in the original manuscript, why? because it contradicts Jesus' statement...

"I and the Father are one ."
John 10:30

* according to Jesus Himself, it is only He and the Father who are one... He should've included the Holy Spirit here if I John 5:7 will be accepted...

* and according also to Jesus, the Father is greater than He (Jesus), and He (Jesus) is greater than the Holy Spirit... so the doctrine of Trinity by which all Three of them are equal in power and authority is utterly destroyed in this concept... 😉

Peejayd, with all due respect you are the only person that I know that can be shown an abundance of Scriptures on a subject and still continue to hold to a position even if that stance has been clarified and explained numerous times in the company of other Scriptures. 1 John 5:7 is scriptural and included in the original manuscripts (the textus receptus) from which the King James or Authorized Version was translated. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God (one nature and essence yet distinct Persons, all co-equal in power, understanding, and ubiquity). You choose to ignore what the Word says in light of a preponderance of other Scriptures on a given subject. Jesus only said that the Father was greater while He walked the earth. Now that the Lord Jesus has been reinstated to the glory that He shared with the Father before the world was, He is everything that the Father is in every way. There is no superiority among the Godhead because each Person is God. I have shown you that Jesus is God from a plethora of Scriptures and yet you lower Jesus by referring to Him as "a" God instead of as "the Almighty" (Whom Jesus Christ revealed that He is from His own mouth). Jesus was not talking about the Holy Spirit so there was no need to say that He, His Father, and the Holy Spirit are one. The Father is called God, Jesus is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God.

Colossians 2:2
that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,

In this passage of Scripture both the Father and Christ are called God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

The Father God is nowhere mentioned in this verse. The Son of God (Jesus Christ) is the subject and antecedent in this verse. Jesus Christ is Him Who is true, and Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life...." Jesus Christ said in another place, "I am...the Life...."

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God because the Holy Spirit is God.

Our works are the fruit of our salvation and not the source of it. I have already explained what James 2:18 means. Faith must be evinced by corresponding actions (not in the sense of doing works to be saved though because the Bible reveals that by grace we are saved through faith, not of ourselves i.e. not of our own good morals or effort, it is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. For example, if I say that I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins then my corresponding action should be that I verbally confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead. We already know from studying other Scriptures on the subject of works that we are not saved by our works. So that should never come up in your consciousness in terms of our works being the basis for our salvation. So just through process of elimination you should realize that James is not talking about works done to attain salvation. Salvation is a gift and it is received by faith: this is what the Bible teaches. Remember we must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, with all due respect you are the only person that I know that can be shown an abundance of Scriptures on a subject and still continue to hold to a position even if that stance has been clarified and explained numerous times in the company of other Scriptures.

you don't pay much attention then, do you? No one believes the crap you spew.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[COLOR=darkblue]Peejayd, with all due respect you are the only person that I know that can be shown an abundance of Scriptures on a subject and still continue to hold to a position even if that stance has been clarified and explained numerous times in the company of other Scriptures.

This just goes to show that the bible is ambigious and contradictory. No mater how "literally" you interpret it, there are always multiple literal interpretations.

Originally posted by Alliance
This just goes to show that the bible is ambigious and contradictory. No mater how "literally" you interpret it, there are always multiple literal interpretations.

Or literal meanings with figurative language. I believe the truth is in the scriptures, it can be difficult to interpret though.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Or literal meanings with figurative language. I believe the truth is in the scriptures, it can be difficult to interpret though.

then i assume you follow the proper procedure before you sell you daughter into prostitution.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
then i assume you follow the proper procedure before you sell you daughter into prostitution.

"Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute"
Leviticus 19:29

Of course.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, with all due respect you are the only person that I know that can be shown an abundance of Scriptures on a subject and still continue to hold to a position even if that stance has been clarified and explained numerous times in the company of other Scriptures. 1 John 5:7 is scriptural and included in the original manuscripts (the textus receptus) from which the King James or Authorized Version was translated. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God (one nature and essence yet distinct Persons, all co-equal in power, understanding, and ubiquity). You choose to ignore what the Word says in light of a preponderance of other Scriptures on a given subject. Jesus only said that the Father was greater while He walked the earth. Now that the Lord Jesus has been reinstated to the glory that He shared with the Father before the world was, He is everything that the Father is in every way. There is no superiority among the Godhead because each Person is God. I have shown you that Jesus is God from a plethora of Scriptures and yet you lower Jesus by referring to Him as "a" God instead of as "the Almighty" (Whom Jesus Christ revealed that He is from His own mouth). Jesus was not talking about the Holy Spirit so there was no need to say that He, His Father, and the Holy Spirit are one. The Father is called God, Jesus is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God.

Colossians 2:2
that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,

In this passage of Scripture both the Father and Christ are called God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

The Father God is nowhere mentioned in this verse. The Son of God (Jesus Christ) is the subject and antecedent in this verse. Jesus Christ is Him Who is true, and Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life...." Jesus Christ said in another place, "I am...the Life...."

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God because the Holy Spirit is God.

Our works are the fruit of our salvation and not the source of it. I have already explained what James 2:18 means. Faith must be evinced by corresponding actions (not in the sense of doing works to be saved though because the Bible reveals that by grace we are saved through faith, not of ourselves i.e. not of our own good morals or effort, it is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. For example, if I say that I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins then my corresponding action should be that I verbally confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead. We already know from studying other Scriptures on the subject of works that we are not saved by our works. So that should never come up in your consciousness in terms of our works being the basis for our salvation. So just through process of elimination you should realize that James is not talking about works done to attain salvation. Salvation is a gift and it is received by faith: this is what the Bible teaches. Remember we must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Do you follow me peejayd?