Originally posted by debbiejo
Peek a boo
* peek-a-boo! hi, ms.debbiejo! are you a Muslim now? or are you just using Muslim-dominated websites to disprove the Bible? 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
http://answering-christianity.com/paul_baptism.htm
Originally posted by peejayd
* the I John 5:7 of the King James Version is not in the original manuscript..."For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
[B]King James Version"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
Modern King James Version"Because three are who are testifying [in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;"
Young's Literal Translation"And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one."
Douay-Rheims Version"For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one."
Webster's Bible"And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth."
American Standard Version"For there are three that testify:"
New American Standard Bible"And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth."
Revised Standard Version"So we have these three witnesses-"
New Living Translation"For there are three that testify:"
New International Version"For there are three that testify:"
English Standard Version"For they that bear witness are three:"
Darby Bible"For there are three who testify:"
Hebrew Names Version"There are three witnesses:"
Good News Bible"In fact, there are three who tell about it."
Contemporary English Version* notice the inconsistency of the different translations... however, majority of them do not recognize the same account from the King James Version... because it is not in the original manuscript... 😉 [/B]
Those inconsistencies are just that "inconsistencies," but they have no bearing on this discussion. I posted an article written by David Terrell that should have cleared this matter up. Did you read it? The issue is original manuscripts not paraphrased translations (which the list that you provided are composed mostly of). The King James version or Authorized Version as it is also referred to as is a literal, word-for-word (as close as possible) translation--not a paraphrase. Can you see this now? You are comparing apples with oranges as they say.
* the King James Version may be literal or yet word-for-word "as-close-as-possible" translation of the original but there are certain passages which should not be included but it is there...
* although i also use KJV, some passages like I John 5:7 does not conform with the other verses, especially those from the words of Christ... i'll just give an example...
"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
John 1:3
The King James Version
* this is a blatant mistranslation and does not conform with the other Bible verses... who really created all things? is it the Father or Christ?
"And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
Revelation 4:8-11
The King James Version
* even on the KJV itself, it teaches us that it was the Father who created all things and not Christ...
"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"
The Acts 17:24
The King James Version
* now that we already know who is the Creator, what should be more appropriate translation for John 1:3? what is the participation of Christ in the Creation?
"All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made."
The Revised Standard Version
* all things are made by the Father through Christ...
"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
For in him all things were created , in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
Colossians 1:15-20
The Revised Standard Version
* all things are made by the Father through Christ, in Christ and for Christ...
* i'm not saying that the RSV is perfect, what i'm saying is that the KJV has flaws and you should accept that fact... some translations are more reliable in some instances than KJV...
* and you should not conclude other translations as paraphrased... i believe that the Good News Bible and the Contemporary English Version are paraphrased but RSV and American Standard Version are not, just like KJV...
* there are other KJV flaws and i'm willing to post it, just say so, my friend... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* the King James Version may be literal or yet word-for-word "as-close-as-possible" translation of the original but there are certain passages which should not be included but it is there...* although i also use KJV, some passages like I John 5:7 does not conform with the other verses, especially those from the words of Christ... i'll just give an example...
"All things were made [B]by
him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
John 1:3
The King James Version* this is a blatant mistranslation and does not conform with the other Bible verses... who really created all things? is it the Father or Christ?
"And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
Revelation 4:8-11
The King James Version* even on the KJV itself, it teaches us that it was the Father who created all things and not Christ...
"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"
The Acts 17:24
The King James Version* now that we already know who is the Creator, what should be more appropriate translation for John 1:3? what is the participation of Christ in the Creation?
"All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made."
The Revised Standard Version* all things are made by the Father through Christ...
"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
For in him all things were created , in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
Colossians 1:15-20
The Revised Standard Version* all things are made by the Father through Christ, in Christ and for Christ...
* i'm not saying that the RSV is perfect, what i'm saying is that the KJV has flaws and you should accept that fact... some translations are more reliable in some instances than KJV...
* and you should not conclude other translations as paraphrased... i believe that the Good News Bible and the Contemporary English Version are paraphrased but RSV and American Standard Version are not, just like KJV...
* there are other KJV flaws and i'm willing to post it, just say so, my friend... 😉 [/B]
The word by and through are very similar in meaning. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary uses this sentence to show how the word by is used in context:
{enter by the door}
In this context the word by means through or through the medium of: VIA
So, as you can see whether the KJV uses the word by or through is of no consequence because in both cases the sense or meaning is the same. All things were made by or through (either word will suffice) Jesus Christ. God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were involved in creating all things.
Peejayd, all God the Father wants us to see is that His Son Jesus is as much God as He is God, that is why there are Scriptures in the Bible that reveal that both God the Father and God the Son created all things. There are passages that state that God the Father created all things. But then as you study the Word you will come across passages that state that God made all things by or through Jesus Christ. Peejayd, there is no need to get flustered. Remember, God is one, but manifested in three Persons. So when the Scriptures state that all things were made by or through Jesus Christ there is compete harmony and agreement. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, and are equally responsible for creating all things. What one does, they all are responsible for doing. I don't have any problem understanding this. For example, let's say that a husband and wife bought a house together. The husband is at work talking about the purchase to a coworker. The husband can say that he bought a house recently for x amount over in x neighborhood. The husband and his wife actually purchased the house but he fails to mention that because he is not trying to be technical. He could have said that him and his wife bought the house but what he said originally is just as right. He did buy a house but he did it with his wife's help. Well, God did create all things but He did it by or through Jesus Christ. The Godhead gets the credit together for creating all things because they are one God. I have said this once and I guess I will have to keep on saying it: Everything that is true of God in terms of His infinite power, understanding (i.e. His infinite wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence), and ubiquity is true of Christ and the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Bible mentions many things about Jesus that indicate that He and the Father are one God but at the same time distinct Persons. Moreover, I believe that the same is true of the Holy Spirit. There are many things that are mentioned about the Holy Spirit that demonstrate that He is one with the Father and the Son. These are not flaws, contradictions, nor mistranslations, but instances that allow us to see the oneness of God in all modes of manifestation. God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit; this is God's true nature. You don't have to understand this to be saved, just believe it by faith.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You don't have to understand this to be saved, just believe it by faith.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You don't have to understand this to be saved, just believe it by faith.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Now that is the truth of the matter. The Trinity is a difficult concept to wrap one's head around. Ultimately it does entirely matter. What is important is that one acknowledges Jesus as the Savior sent by God.
* i beg to disagree...
"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4
* upon salvation also comes the knowledge of truth...
* our belief or faith is a part or fraction on why we should be saved... another part of salvation is good works...
"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2:26
* good works are very essential... in faith, we need to add so much things, not faith alone...
"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
To knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
To godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love .
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
II Peter 1:5-8
* the doctrine of Trinity is unbiblical, the passage I John 5:7 is really not in the original manuscript, why? because it contradicts Jesus' statement...
"I and the Father are one ."
John 10:30
* according to Jesus Himself, it is only He and the Father who are one... He should've included the Holy Spirit here if I John 5:7 will be accepted...
* and according also to Jesus, the Father is greater than He (Jesus), and He (Jesus) is greater than the Holy Spirit... so the doctrine of Trinity by which all Three of them are equal in power and authority is utterly destroyed in this concept... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* i beg to disagree..."This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4* upon salvation also comes the knowledge of truth...
* our belief or faith is a part or fraction on why we should be saved... another part of salvation is good works...
"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2:26* good works are very essential... in faith, we need to add so much things, not faith alone...
"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
To knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
To godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love .
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
II Peter 1:5-8* the doctrine of Trinity is unbiblical, the passage I John 5:7 is really not in the original manuscript, why? because it contradicts Jesus' statement...
"I and the Father are one ."
John 10:30* according to Jesus Himself, it is only He and the Father who are one... He should've included the Holy Spirit here if I John 5:7 will be accepted...
* and according also to Jesus, the Father is greater than He (Jesus), and He (Jesus) is greater than the Holy Spirit... so the doctrine of Trinity by which all Three of them are equal in power and authority is utterly destroyed in this concept... 😉
Originally posted by Nellinator
When one truly accept Jesus Christ as their savior, good works should come naturally. They should know us by our love. Being able to fully understand the doctrine of the Trinity is not essential to salvation, that much is true.
Then why do so many Christians, especially in Political Activism, take aim to CONTROL people rather than help those who really need help?
What are you doing to help the poor right now Nellinator? What about YOU Jesusisalive? How bout u Peejayd?
You Holy Holy Loving people 🙄
What are you "holier than tho" moral perfectionist Christians doing about AIDS in Africa? About AIDS harming and killing the population of women, gays, blacks, whites, hispanics, young and old ?
What are you guys doing about the MASSIVE poverty that exists in a RICH NATION like this one ?
What about the WAR? What are you guys doing about the innocent lives being taken in this war ?
What are you guys doing about breast cancer ?
What are you guys doing about Global Warming ?
What are you guys doing about Skin Cancer?
What are you doing about Hurricane Katrina aftermath ??????
IF you didn't lift a finger to help out for even ONE, JUST ONE, of these causes, then don't fkn preach and preach here on KMC forums....you guys think you're helping anyone buy wasting hours on KMC ?
Hypocrits....if you TRULY HAD POWERFUL LOVE within your spirit, then you would SHOW IT by helping those in NEED with REAL PROBLEMS...not simply ignoring the suffering that occurs in this world, and continue saying "God loves you" with that empty smurk of your faces !
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then why do so many Christians, especially in Political Activism, take aim to CONTROL people rather than help those who really need help?What are you doing to help the poor right now Nellinator? What about YOU Jesusisalive? How bout u Peejayd?
You Holy Holy Loving people 🙄
What are you "holier than tho" moral perfectionist Christians doing about AIDS in Africa? About AIDS harming and killing the population of women, gays, blacks, whites, hispanics, young and old ?
What are you guys doing about the MASSIVE poverty that exists in a RICH NATION like this one ?
What about the WAR? What are you guys doing about the innocent lives being taken in this war ?
What are you guys doing about breast cancer ?
What are you guys doing about Global Warming ?
What are you guys doing about Skin Cancer?
What are you doing about Hurricane Katrina aftermath ??????
IF you didn't lift a finger to help out for even ONE, JUST ONE, of these causes, then don't fkn preach and preach here on KMC forums....you guys think you're helping anyone buy wasting hours on KMC ?
Hypocrits....if you [b]TRULY HAD POWERFUL LOVE
within your spirit, then you would SHOW IT by helping those in NEED with REAL PROBLEMS...not simply ignoring the suffering that occurs in this world, and continue saying "God loves you" with that empty smurk of your faces ! [/B]
How can you call us hypocrites when you don't these kind of things.
Originally posted by Nellinator
And what if I told you I donated money to Hurricane Katrina relief, am a proponent of environmental reform, provide monetary assistance for the upkeep of single mother shelters, support the food bank,financially support medical relief to African countries, support the starting of small businesses in Vietnam, and Mozambique, helped pay for schools in Africa and Guatemala, and supported my sister while she worked in an orphanage in Cambodia?
I'd say keep up the good work. However, I have no idea whether you are being truthful, or just saying that for the sake of argument.
It's kind of like how every single Christian debator says "Oh, but I HAVE GAY FREINDS....and they always tell me it was thier choice"
If you are being honest, then good for you. Although, I find it hard to beleive that you are doing all these good deeds, and still find TIME to debate plenty on KMC... 😉
I bet JIA and Peejayd will make the SAME CLAIMS...I bet they will also claim how "great" they are by making up some BS about how they donate to shelters, cure diseases, and save lives....and still have time to write essays on KMC religion forum....all in effort to pump up thier moral gauge.
Originally posted by Nellinator
How can you call us hypocrites when you don't these kind of things.
How do you know I don't do any of those things? How do I know you DO any of those things you claim ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'd say keep up the good work. However, I have no idea whether you are being truthful, or just saying that for the sake of argument.It's kind of like how every single Christian debator says "Oh, but I HAVE GAY FREINDS....and they always tell me it was thier choice"
If you are being honest, then good for you. Although, I find it hard to beleive that you are doing all these good deeds, and still find TIME to debate plenty on KMC... 😉
I bet JIA and Peejayd will make the SAME CLAIMS...I bet they will also claim how "great" they are by making up some BS about how they donate to shelters, cure diseases, and save lives....and still have time to write essays on KMC religion forum....all in effort to pump up thier moral gauge.
How do you know I don't do any of those things? How do I know you DO any of those things you claim ?
And do you do anything like this? I would be interested to know what causes everyone on the forum is supporting actually.