Jehovah, Jesus and Idolatry...

Started by Adam_PoE9 pages

Adam_PoE Senior Member

Originally posted by Nellinator
"Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute"
Leviticus 19:29
Of course.

Exodus 21:7-11
If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.
If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her.
If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters.
If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.
If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
The Father God is nowhere mentioned in this verse. The Son of God (Jesus Christ) is the subject and antecedent in this verse. Jesus Christ is Him Who is true, and Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life...." Jesus Christ said in another place, "I am...the Life...." [/B]

* being the Only Begotten Son of God, i believe that Christ is a true God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God because the Holy Spirit is God.[/B]

* that is YOUR interpretation... the Bible did not say that the Holy Spirit is NOT God... it only says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, and he did not lie to men but to God...

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30

* the Holy Spirit is NOT God but of God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Our works are the fruit of our salvation and not the source of it. I have already explained what James 2:18 means. Faith must be evinced by corresponding actions (not in the sense of doing works to be saved though because the Bible reveals that by grace we are saved through faith, not of ourselves i.e. not of our own good morals or effort, it is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. For example, if I say that I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins then my corresponding action should be that I verbally confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead. We already know from studying other Scriptures on the subject of works that we are not saved by our works. So that should never come up in your consciousness in terms of our works being the basis for our salvation. So just through process of elimination you should realize that James is not talking about works done to attain salvation. Salvation is a gift and it is received by faith: this is what the Bible teaches. Remember we must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done."
Revelation 20:12-13

* everyone will be judged according to what they have done... you just misinterpreted what Saint Paul had written... he himself even wrote in his other epistles that Christians are fully equipped and thoroughly furnished to do good works... 😉

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I bet JIA and Peejayd will make the SAME CLAIMS...I bet they will also claim how "great" they are by making up some BS about how they donate to shelters, cure diseases, and save lives....and still have time to write essays on KMC religion forum....all in effort to pump up thier moral gauge.

* then you lose to your bet on mine... because will not make such claims...

"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
So that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
Matthew 6:1-4

* i will just say that REAL Christians are fully equipped to do good works but personally, i won't squeal out the works i do... 😉

JesusIsAlive Restricted

Originally posted by peejayd
* being the Only Begotten Son of God, i believe that Christ is a true God...
* that is YOUR interpretation... the Bible did not say that the Holy Spirit is NOT God... it only says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, and he did not lie to men but to God...
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30
* the Holy Spirit is NOT God but of God...
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done."
Revelation 20:12-13
* everyone will be judged according to what they have done... you just misinterpreted what Saint Paul had written... he himself even wrote in his other epistles that Christians are fully equipped and thoroughly furnished to do good works... 😉

* being the Only Begotten Son of God, i believe that Christ is a true God...

Brother, friend, pal...why do you persist on referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as a God when you cannot find one Scripture (not-even-one) that supports this? You know...a true student of God's Word is marked by his/her steadfast, unwavering, commitment to promulgate only that which is in the Bible, and that which is supportable by the Scriptures. In other words, the hallmark of a genuine, authentic, bona fide teacher of God's Word is his attention to detail, strictness in interpretation, and precision in terms of declaring only that which can be effortlessly substantiated with chapter and verse. Friend, pal, comrade...I do not believe that you fit this description. I am nearly speechless at your dogged determination to continue to make statements (regularly mind you) that you cannot support with the Scriptures. I have never done that, no not once. I would be uncomfortable saying anything that I could not provide strong chapter and verse for. Peejayd, this is a formal appeal. I entreat you to show me just one Scripture in the Bible where Jesus Christ is referred to as "a" God. Again, just direct me to one passage of Scripture (i.e. chapter and verse in the Bible) where Jesus the Christ is referred to as "a" God instead of as "God". Jesus Christ was never called "a" God. But Jesus Christ is called "God." There is a big universe-size difference. If you provide this one passage of Scripture, then I will retract everything that I have written. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. But I cannot give you any credit until you fulfill the terms of this simple challenge. Remember:

Just one peejayd.

* the Holy Spirit is NOT God but of God...

The Holy Spirit is God peejayd. I have (and I do currently) labor in unrelenting fashion to show you from the Bible that the Holy Spirit is God. Peter, asked Ananias why had satan filled his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost. Peter unequivocally said that Ananias had not lied to men but to God. There was no need for Peter to even mention Ananias lying to the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit is God the Father. Peter would have just asked Ananias why had satan filled his heart to lie to God. Can you see this? I have told you time and time again that God is very deliberate in everything that He does, especially with respect to how He phrases and communicates His thoughts in the Bible. I believe that the Holy Spirit inspired Peter to say Holy Spirit the first time in speaking to Ananias, but then say God in his next statement so that we could see that the Holy Spirit is God, and so that we could see the connection. To lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God because the Holy Spirit is God.

I haven't yet misinterpreted anything relative to the Bible. Christians are furnished for good works--but not in order to be saved. I firmly believe that this is a truth, a fundamental truth wherein you err in your understanding. We are not saved by our works, but we are saved for good works (there is a difference). Can you see this distinction friend?

JesusIsAlive Restricted

Our works don't save us but we through our works bear fruit and evince the fact that we are saved. Through our good works we can demonstrate that we are saved. But our works don't save us. Can you see this distinction friend?

Capt_Fantastic Restricted

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Exodus 21:7-11
If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.
If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her.
If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters.
If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.
If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

As always, Adam does the leg work, while I enjoy the benefits. Or, perhaps he's willing to "revisit" topics, via research, that I have decided to ignore for many years. That happens when you've been raised in a catholic school environment. You'll always look out for me, won't you Burl? That happens when this crap has been drilled into your head and you've decided not to buy into the bullshit. A descision, I might add, that we are all capable of making. It's just that some have decided not to buy it. And others have decided to trade in their dinner fork for bigger spoons.

folsom street, my birthday, Super Tall Ben coming to visit. What else can I do?

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Brother, friend, pal...why do you persist on referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as [B]a God when you cannot find one Scripture (not-even-one) that supports this? You know...a true student of God's Word is marked by his/her steadfast, unwavering, commitment to promulgate only that which is in the Bible, and that which is supportable by the Scriptures. In other words, the hallmark of a genuine, authentic, bona fide teacher of God's Word is his attention to detail, strictness in interpretation, and precision in terms of declaring only that which can be effortlessly substantiated with chapter and verse. Friend, pal, comrade...I do not believe that you fit this description. I am nearly speechless at your dogged determination to continue to make statements (regularly mind you) that you cannot support with the Scriptures. I have never done that, no not once. I would be uncomfortable saying anything that I could not provide strong chapter and verse for. Peejayd, this is a formal appeal. I entreat you to show me just one Scripture in the Bible where Jesus Christ is referred to as "a" God. Again, just direct me to one passage of Scripture (i.e. chapter and verse in the Bible) where Jesus the Christ is referred to as "a" God instead of as "God". Jesus Christ was never called "a" God. But Jesus Christ is called "God." There is a big universe-size difference. If you provide this one passage of Scripture, then I will retract everything that I have written. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. But I cannot give you any credit until you fulfill the terms of this simple challenge. Remember:
Just one peejayd. [/B]

* a challenge, eh?

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
II Peter 1:1

* i believe that Christ is a God and NOT God...

"Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."
I Corinthians 8:6

* the Father is God... and Jesus as the Only Begotten Son of God has also the same being...

"I and the Father are one."
John 10:30

* the God in the Bible is the Father... His Son, Jesus Christ having the same being of the Father is also a God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Holy Spirit is God peejayd. I have (and I do currently) labor in unrelenting fashion to show you from the Bible that the Holy Spirit is God. Peter, asked Ananias why had satan filled his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost. Peter unequivocally said that Ananias had not lied to men but to God. There was no need for Peter to even mention Ananias lying to the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit is God the Father. Peter would have just asked Ananias why had satan filled his heart to lie to God. Can you see this? I have told you time and time again that God is very deliberate in everything that He does, especially with respect to how He phrases and communicates His thoughts in the Bible. I believe that the Holy Spirit inspired Peter to say Holy Spirit the first time in speaking to Ananias, but then say God in his next statement so that we could see that the Holy Spirit is God, and so that we could see the connection. To lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God because the Holy Spirit is God.

* to lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God because the Holy Spirit is OF God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I haven't yet misinterpreted anything relative to the Bible. Christians are furnished for good works--but not in order to be saved. I firmly believe that this is a truth, a fundamental truth wherein you err in your understanding. We are not saved [b]by our works, but we are saved for good works (there is a difference). Can you see this distinction friend? [/B]

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Our works don't save us but we through our works bear fruit and evince the fact that we are saved. Through our good works we can demonstrate that we are saved. But our works don't save us. Can you see this distinction friend?

* what i like to point out is that people will NOT be saved by faith ALONE... 😉

JesusIsAlive Restricted

Originally posted by peejayd
* a challenge, eh?
"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13
"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
II Peter 1:1
* i believe that Christ is a God and NOT God...

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and even ample time to come up with just one chapter and verse to support your position that Jesus Christ is "a" God and not "God" and you could/did not. I presented to you a very simple task and yet you could not compete. All you could resort to is saying that "you believe that Jesus Christ is "a" God
'--but again, without verifying this belief with Scripture. I forever rest my case. There is no longer any need to discuss this issue because you have shown your teaching to be unsupportable by the Bible. The Scriptures that you provided refer to Jesus Christ as either our God and Savior (again, not "a" God) or as or great God and Savior--but never as "a" God as you erroneously allege. Thank you for your time though.

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I gave you the benefit of the doubt and even ample time to come up with just [B]one chapter and verse to support your position that Jesus Christ is "a" God and not "God" and you could/did not. I presented to you a very simple task and yet you could not compete. All you could resort to is saying that "you believe that Jesus Christ is "a" God
'--but again, without verifying this belief with Scripture. I forever rest my case. There is no longer any need to discuss this issue because you have shown your teaching to be unsupportable by the Bible. The Scriptures that you provided refer to Jesus Christ as either our God and Savior (again, not "a" God) or as or great God and Savior--but never as "a" God as you erroneously allege. Thank you for your time though. [/B]

* you cannot even refute the fact that the Trinity is Biblical, all you did was rely on the verse not included in the original manuscript...

* the Father is God, not Christ... Christ is a God because He is the Only Begotten Son of God... you only claim Christ as the God because of the unbiblical doctrine of Trinity, a pathetic excuse...

* you cannot prove in the Bible that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all co-equal in power and ubiquity... the kind of doctrine you preach makes people think that God is cruel...

* according to the Bible, God is NOT omniscient, nor omnipotent, or even omnipresent... plus, the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit...

* do you the intent of Saint John why he said that Christ is the true God? don't stop on I John 5:20, continue on verse 21...

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Little children, keep yourselves from idols."
I John 5:20-21

* the intent of Saint John is to keep the Church brethren from false gods and idols and he points them to the true God -> Jesus Christ... but that does not mean that Christ is also the Father, it only means that Christ is a God... 😉

JesusIsAlive Restricted

Originally posted by peejayd
* you cannot even refute the fact that the Trinity is Biblical, all you did was rely on the verse not included in the original manuscript...
* the Father is God, not Christ... Christ is a God because He is the Only Begotten Son of God... you only claim Christ as the God because of the unbiblical doctrine of Trinity, a pathetic excuse...
* you cannot prove in the Bible that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all co-equal in power and ubiquity... the kind of doctrine you preach makes people think that God is cruel...
* according to the Bible, God is NOT omniscient, nor omnipotent, or even omnipresent... plus, the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit...
* do you the intent of Saint John why he said that Christ is the true God? don't stop on I John 5:20, continue on verse 21...
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Little children, [B]keep yourselves from idols."
I John 5:20-21
* the intent of Saint John is to keep the Church brethren from false gods and idols and he points them to the true God -> Jesus Christ... but that does not mean that Christ is also the Father, it only means that Christ is a God... 😉 [/B]

I am really tired of going over this with you peejayd (even Jesus got weary: Matthew 8:23-25). Your error is that you fail to heed and acknowledge the Scriptures and other information that I have repeatedly set before you in plain view. I am not the problem and I have not failed to support what I know the Bible teaches. The error, failure, and ineptness in terms of expounding the Scriptures rests with you. But I do commend your sincerity and effort to explain the Bible, but I do not think that you are qualified by the Holy Spirit to do so. I have previously, in times past, and on numerous occasions furnished a number of Scriptures that sufficiently address each and every point of your argument. I will not do so in this post.

* you cannot even refute the fact that the Trinity is Biblical, all you did was rely on the verse not included in the original manuscript...

Why would I desire to refute that which I believe that the Bible teaches? I don't want to refute the Trinity because the reality of it is abundantly evinced in the Bible. I have already shown you that that verse was/is included in the original manuscript (the Textus Receptus) from which the King James Bible was translation was derived. Oh, and I did not rely on just one verse of Scripture but I provided a number of other Scriptures in support of what I believe the Bible reveals concerning the Trinity.

* the Father is God, not Christ... Christ is a God because He is the Only Begotten Son of God... you only claim Christ as the God because of the unbiblical doctrine of Trinity, a pathetic excuse...

This fallacy about Christ being "a" God and not "God" is consistent with the error and false teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They (just like you) believe that Jesus is "a" god and not "God." Nevertheless, in times past I have provided a number of Scriptures that blow your heretical belief out of the water. It is not my responsibility or fault that you choose to ignore and dismiss the truth concerning Jesus, for He (Jesus Christ) is God, God the Son.

* you cannot prove in the Bible that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all co-equal in power and ubiquity... the kind of doctrine you preach makes people think that God is cruel...

Care to explain what you mean peejayd? Again, I have done all I know to do but you just simply will not face the music as it were. You don't want to accept the truth, perhaps because you cannot handle it? (Jack Nicholson was right). I am not going to rehash all of my Biblical support for what I believe that the Bible teaches because your mind (or you) are in denial.

* according to the Bible, God is NOT omniscient, nor omnipotent, or even omnipresent... plus, the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit...

Your failure is in your ability to rightly divide the Word of God peejayd. That is all there is to it. You know what the Bible says but you don't really know what it means. You don't know how to put all the Scriptures together to arrive at an accurate understanding of the eternal truths therein.

* do you the intent of Saint John why he said that Christ is the true God? don't stop on I John 5:20, continue on verse 21...

Your thought is not complete here so I will not respond to this point.

No that is not what that verse means peejayd...(sighs deeply)....You have just read and quoted a verse of Scripture that refers to Jesus as God (God the Son, not God the Father) and yet you still call Jesus "a" God. Incredible. I cannot truly fathom your rank miscomprehension of the Scriptures, but I can put my finger on it and recognize it. How can you read Scripture after Scripture where Jesus is referred to as "God" not "a" God and still--I repeat--still say, "Jesus is "a" God and not "God?" Brother, you are either deceived or mistaken in your understanding of the Scriptures. Furthermore, your understanding of the Scriptures is consistent with the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. Nuff said.

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am really tired of going over this with you peejayd (even Jesus got weary: Matthew 8:23-25). Your error is that you fail to heed and acknowledge the Scriptures and other information that I have repeatedly set before you in plain view. I am not the problem and I have not failed to support what I know the Bible teaches. The error, failure, and ineptness in terms of expounding the Scriptures rests with you. But I do commend your sincerity and effort to explain the Bible, but I do not think that you are qualified by the Holy Spirit to do so. I have previously, in times past, and on numerous occasions furnished a number of Scriptures that sufficiently address each and every point of your argument. I will not do so in this post.

* my argument is simple, your problem is your pre-conceived idea and conclusion-jumping express to Trinity...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why would I desire to refute that which I believe that the Bible teaches? I don't want to refute the Trinity because the reality of it is abundantly evinced in the Bible. I have already shown you that that verse was/is included in the original manuscript (the Textus Receptus) from which the King James Bible was translation was derived. Oh, and I did not rely on just one verse of Scripture but I provided a number of other Scriptures in support of what I believe the Bible reveals concerning the Trinity.

* even the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible... and never did the Bible teaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are equal in power... if so, prove it...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This fallacy about Christ being "a" God and not "God" is consistent with the error and false teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They (just like you) believe that Jesus is "a" god and not "God." Nevertheless, in times past I have provided a number of Scriptures that blow your heretical belief out of the water. It is not my responsibility or fault that you choose to ignore and dismiss the truth concerning Jesus, for He (Jesus Christ) is God, God the Son.

* God and god are two different words in the Bible... i believe Christ is a God and NOT a god... even the phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible... clear this up, my friend...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Care to explain what you mean peejayd? Again, I have done all I know to do but you just simply will not face the music as it were. You don't want to accept the truth, perhaps because you cannot handle it? (Jack Nicholson was right). I am not going to rehash all of my Biblical support for what I believe that the Bible teaches because your mind (or you) are in denial.

* by saying that the Father is all-knowing or omniscient, it would make Him the one to blame for creating Satan in the first place... however, the Supreme Being in the Bible is not omniscient and is not responsible for the turning of Satan because the Father is NOT omniscient according to the Bible...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Your failure is in your ability to rightly divide the Word of God peejayd. That is all there is to it. You know what the Bible says but you don't really know what it means. You don't know how to put all the Scriptures together to arrive at an accurate understanding of the eternal truths therein.

* then prove that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all equal according to the Bible...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No that is not what that verse means peejayd...(sighs deeply)....You have just read and quoted a verse of Scripture that refers to Jesus as God (God the Son, not God the Father) and yet you still call Jesus "a" God. Incredible. I cannot truly fathom your rank miscomprehension of the Scriptures, but I can put my finger on it and recognize it. How can you read Scripture after Scripture where Jesus is referred to as "God" not "a" God and still--I repeat--still say, "Jesus is "a" God and not "God?" Brother, you are either deceived or mistaken in your understanding of the Scriptures. Furthermore, your understanding of the Scriptures is consistent with the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. Nuff said.

* i am not a member of that group... my affiliation is not in question here but your Biblical misinterpretation... Christ was the God to be worshipped instead of idols and graven images... continue on I John 5:21 to shed some light to it, not stopping on verse 20... 😉

JesusIsAlive Restricted

Originally posted by peejayd
* my argument is simple, your problem is your pre-conceived idea and conclusion-jumping express to Trinity...
* even the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible... and never did the Bible teaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are equal in power... if so, prove it...
* [b]God and god are two different words in the Bible... i believe Christ is a God and NOT a god... even the phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible... clear this up, my friend...
* by saying that the Father is all-knowing or omniscient, it would make Him the one to blame for creating Satan in the first place... however, the Supreme Being in the Bible is not omniscient and is not responsible for the turning of Satan because the Father is NOT omniscient according to the Bible...
* then prove that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all equal according to the Bible...
* i am not a member of that group... my affiliation is not in question here but your Biblical misinterpretation... Christ was the God to be worshipped instead of idols and graven images... continue on I John 5:21 to shed some light to it, not stopping on verse 20... 😉 [/B]

* my argument is simple, your problem is your pre-conceived idea and conclusion-jumping express to Trinity...

What preconceived idea? I get everything that I teach from the Bible. The Bible is not filled with any of my ideas.

* even the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible... and never did the Bible teaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are equal in power... if so, prove it...

I never said that the word Trinity was in the Bible did I? But I believe that the truth of the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is in the Bible. I believe that the Bible teaches that they are one God and that they are co-equal in every way.

* God and god are two different words in the Bible... i believe Christ is a God and NOT a god... even the phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible... clear this up, my friend...

You are still wrong on both counts. I have told you a million (at least a million) times that nowhere in the Bible is Jesus referred to as "a" God and yet you still hang on to this heresy with dogged grip and tenacity. Why are you so bent on promoting something that you have yet to substantiate by the Bible? Peejayd, read my lips: It-is-not-in-the-Bible. The concept is not nor is the phrase or term. Deal with this fact.

You are utterly ignorant of the Bible peejayd. I am sorry but I have tried to explain to you that the Bible teaches that God is omniscient and you refuse to believe or accept this truth. Your problem is your rank denial of the Scriptures. I am not your problem neither is my teachings. The problem rests with your steadfast denial of the truth as revealed in the Bible. God knew that Adam and Eve were going to sin before He created the foundations of the earth. Why do you think that the Word says:

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God the Father had already predestined, preordained, and preplanned to send Jesus to die for the sins of the world--before the world was even created. The Bible talks about the fact that God foreknew us and predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus. The Bible goes on to say that we were predestined to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. Furthermore, the Bible reveals that we were predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will. According to the Bible God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their (or our) preappointed times and the boundaries of their (or our) dwellings. The Bible declares that the Lord knows the thoughts of man, that His understanding (i.e. knowledge and mental grasp) is infinite. Finally the Word of God reveals that God knows all things.

God knew in advance that satan would betray Him, but you are greatly mistaken. For God did not create satan. God created a cherub, whom He anointed, and that anointed cherub rebelled against God, and became satan (which means adversary). God is not at fault for any of His creation's malfeasance. We are to blame for our sin--not God.

* then prove that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all equal according to the Bible...

I have already done this countless times but you choose (willfully) not to accept the Scriptures on this matter.

Hallelujah!!! This is the first time that you put a definite article in front of the word God in reference to Jesus. This is what I have been trying to get you to see for months. Christ is not "a" God, but God or "the" God, God the Son. 🙂

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What preconceived idea? I get everything that I teach from the Bible. The Bible is not filled with any of my ideas.
I never said that the word Trinity was in the Bible did I? But I believe that the truth of the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is in the Bible. I believe that the Bible teaches that they are one God and that they are co-equal in every way.

* Christ Himself said that He and the Father are one... could you explain how He might have forgetten to include the Holy Spirit in John 10:30? the Holy Spirit should have to be in this verse to prove the authenticity of I John 5:7... however, it wasn't...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are still wrong on both counts. I have told you a million (at least a million) times that nowhere in the Bible is Jesus referred to as "a" God and yet you still hang on to this heresy with dogged grip and tenacity. Why are you so bent on promoting something that you have yet to substantiate by the Bible? Peejayd, read my lips: It-is-not-in-the-Bible. The concept is not nor is the phrase or term. Deal with this fact.

* i believe both the Father and Christ to be Gods... it is their being, They are both Gods... however, Christ said that the Father is greater than Him... the Father IS God, the Supreme Being, the Lord Almighty... Christ as the Only Begotten Son of the Father IS A God... your logic will fall rock bottom if you say "Christ is God"... it would ambiguously mean that "Christ is the Father" because the Father IS God...

* care to see if your term "God the Son" is Biblical? where's the verse?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are utterly ignorant of the Bible peejayd. I am sorry but I have tried to explain to you that the Bible teaches that God is omniscient and you refuse to believe or accept this truth. Your problem is your rank denial of the Scriptures. I am not your problem neither is my teachings. The problem rests with your steadfast denial of the truth as revealed in the Bible. God knew that Adam and Eve were going to sin before He created the foundations of the earth. Why do you think that the Word says:
[B]Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. [/B]

* whoa! wait here...

"And all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."
Revelation 13:8

* another one of your misinterpretation... Christ was NOT slain before the foundation of the world... please review first the phrase being modified and the modifier...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God the Father had already predestined, preordained, and preplanned to send Jesus to die for the sins of the world--before the world was even created. The Bible talks about the fact that God foreknew us and predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus. The Bible goes on to say that we were predestined to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. Furthermore, the Bible reveals that we were predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will. According to the Bible God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their (or our) preappointed times and the boundaries of their (or our) dwellings. The Bible declares that the Lord knows the thoughts of man, that His understanding (i.e. knowledge and mental grasp) is infinite. Finally the Word of God reveals that God knows all things.

* what the heck are you thinking, my friend? analyze first this parable preached by Christ, then tell me if the sending of the Son what part of the plan in the first place...

"Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country.
When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit;
And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another.
Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them.
Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, They will respect my son.
But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.
And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him."
Matthew 21:33-39

* i hope you understand my point here... the sending of the Son was not part of the plan that's why God and even Christ Himself had sent prophets for the people... when things get out of hand, that's the point when the Father had decided to send Christ to the world...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God knew in advance that satan would betray Him, but you are greatly mistaken. For God did not create satan. God created a cherub, whom He anointed, and that anointed cherub rebelled against God, and became satan (which means adversary). God is not at fault for any of His creation's malfeasance. We are to blame for our sin--not God.

* i don't blame God... i blame your analysis... if YOUR "god" knew in advance that Satan would betray your "god", why did your "god" created a cherub that will eventually become Satan? your "god" is omniscient but cold-hearted...

* well, my God is God... and i know God would not create Satan if He already know that Satan would betray Him in the first place... your analysis of God's character is very much misleading... the God in the Bible is NOT omniscient...

* God knows what is in the heart of every person...

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?
I the LORD search the mind and try the heart, to give to every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings."
Jeremiah 17:9-10

* but God does NOT know what will be your decision before you put your decision in your heart...

"You shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
Deuteronomy 13:3

* that's why God tests people... to KNOW whether a person loves Him or not...

* there are some instances when man did something that did not even came in the mind of God...

"And they have built the high place of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind."
Jeremiah 7:31

"And have built the high places of Ba'al to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Ba'al, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind;"
Jeremiah 19:5

* the burning of offsprings in the time of prophet Jeremiah did not even came into God's mind...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have already done this countless times but you choose (willfully) not to accept the Scriptures on this matter.

* you just quote the verses but doing it unsoundly and illogical...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hallelujah!!! This is the first time that you put a definite article in front of the word God in reference to Jesus. This is what I have been trying to get you to see for months. Christ is not "a" God, but God or "the" God, God the Son. 🙂

* hello? i said Christ was the God to be worshipped instead of idols and graven images... in comparison to idols, Christ is the true God and the one people should worship... it does not break my stand that Christ is a God because the Bible teaches us that the Father is God... 😉

JesusIsAlive Restricted

My response to peejayd part 1

God does not have to do anything that you deem that He should do. God has revealed that the Holy Spirit is God in ways that you refuse to believe and accept. This is the problem, not God.

This statement contradicts the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible is the Father and Christ said to be "Gods." The Lord our God is one (singular peejayd, not plural). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not "Gods" (plural) they are "God" (singular). Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him while He walked the earth in limited, human form. Christ is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God respectively. I have provided numerous Scriptures that substantiate this.

* care to see if your term "God the Son" is Biblical? where's the verse?

Peejayd, the word "Trinity" and "Rapture" are not phrased in the Bible either but the reality of these truths is in the Bible. So it is with the truth that Jesus Christ is God, God the Son. Jesus Christ is both God (i.e. He occupies the Godhead just as the Father and the Holy Spirit) and simultaneously Jesus Christ is the Son of God (the Father). I don't understand what your hang up is with this or why you have a hard time dealing with this. I surmise that it may be because you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

* whoa! wait here...

"And all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."
Revelation 13:8

* another one of your misinterpretation... Christ was NOT slain before the foundation of the world... please review first the phrase being modified and the modifier...

I never said that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world (you really need to deal with your selective hearing issues). God the Father saw Jesus as slain from the foundation of the world before it happened because that is the way that God operates. God sees the past, present, and future simultaneously. One mystery as it were that you need to understand about God is that He calls those things which be not as though they were. God declares the end from the beginning. In other words, God sees things as having been accomplished before they have actually happened. Why do you thing that God changed Abram's name to Abraham? Abram means, "exalted father." But Abraham means, "Father of a multitude." God called Abraham a father of a multitude before Abraham and Sarah even had one child. God even changed Sarai's name to Sarah which means, "princess." God sees things in advance (like I have been laboring to convey to you, God is omniscient) before they take place. I don' t what kind of God you serve that is not omniscient, but it certainly is not the God of the Bible.

So when the Bible reveals that the Lamb (i.e. Jesus Christ) was slain from the foundation of the world this is talking about the plan of God in the beginning. God had already predestined to send Jesus to die for the sins of the world before the earth was created. This is something that I don't think that you are capable of understanding without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. I mean you are having a hard enough time understanding the Trinity. Why do you think that Jesus said over and over to His disciples that He would be betrayed into the hands of sinners, they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up? Jesus told Pontius Pilate, that he could have no power at all against Him unless it had been given from above. What do you think this means peejayd? It means that God had given Pilate authority to order Jesus' crucifixion. Nothing happened to Jesus that God did not permit in advance peejayd. Jesus knew everything that was to befall Him before it happened. The night that Jesus was about to be betrayed by Judas Iscariot, Jesus said to His disciples,

"Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me."

Jesus even knew exactly who it was that would betray Him for Jesus said,

"It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it."

Jesus dipped the bread and gave it to Judas Iscariot then said to him,

"What you do, do quickly."

Judas had succeeded in betraying Jesus and revealing to the chief priests, captains of the temple, the elders who had come to him, as well as the detachment of troops Jesus' location. Upon their arrival Jesus said the following words to them,

"Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour and the power of darkness."

I would rest my case here concerning the fact that Jesus Christ's betrayal, arrest, torture, scourging, and crucifixion was the plan of God. God had already purposed to send His Son to die for the sins of the world. Jesus told those who came to arrest Him that day after day He taught in the temple and no one tried to arrest Him. Well, why not peejayd, why didn't they try to arrest Jesus then? Glad you asked. It is because it was not the right time for Jesus to die based on God's timing and plan. Why do you think that Jesus told them,

"Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour and the power of darkness."

The could not touch Jesus for three and one half years that He ministered to people, taught, and preached the gospel. It was not their hour or time in the plan of God to lay a hand on His Son.

In reality it was not satan's time to engineer the arrest, beating, scourging, and crucifixion of Jesus because that's who was behind it. Remember Jesus said to those who came out to arrest Him,

"...But this is your hour and the power of darkness."

Power of darkness is a reference to the forces of satan. satan was the instigator behind the crucifixion of Jesus. But it was all the plan of God from the beginning. The Father simply permitted satan and his minions to be the agent through which the process was effected. But God the Father oversaw the entire event making sure that it did not happen until it was the proper time according to His timetable.

The apostle Peter stated to the masses immediately following the Holy Spirit's advent into believers on the Day of Pentecost the following words,

Acts 2:22-23
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God , you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

Did you catch that peejayd? Jesus Christ of Nazareth was delivered (into the hands of sinners to be crucified) by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God.

I got four words for you peejayd: whoomp, there it is!

I told you God was omniscient and I told you that Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world (meaning that from God's point of view, He had predestined and preordained that His Son Jesus would be slain, and He preplanned this before the foundation of the world. Here is another Scripture supporting the foreknowledge of God peejayd:

* what the heck are you thinking, my friend? analyze first this parable preached by Christ, then tell me if the sending of the Son what part of the plan in the first place...

Yes it was, I already proved this.

JesusIsAlive Restricted

My response to peejayd part 2

That is not what that parable meant peejayd. Jesus Christ was destined to die before the foundation of the world. Do you understand the purpose of a parable? Parables are illustrative stories that convey spiritual truth in a manner that those whom Jesus addressed could relate to. Jesus couldn't tell those that He spoke to that God had predetermined to send Him to die for the sins of the whole world because the would not have been able to comprehend and grasp that. So Jesus told them something that they could wrap their minds around. Thus the parable of the vineyard.

God had already planned to send Jesus why do you think that the Father told the serpent in the garden of Eden,

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed [i.e. Jesus Christ];
He [i.e. Jesus Christ] shall bruise your head [Jesus Christ defeated satan and destroyed the works of the devil],
And you shall bruise His heel [i.e. by crucifixion].”

This is just one of the mysteries of God peejayd, that God planned (before the foundation of the world) to send His Son to die for the sins of the whole world and to destroy (i.e. render null and void, reverse, dissolve) the works of the devil.

But God had already planned to send Jesus why do you think that the Father told Abraham,

Genesis 12:2-3
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

God announced to Abraham that he would be a blessing and in him all the families of the earth shall be blessed. What is God talking about? God brought His Son into the world--to die for the sins of the whole world according to His determined purpose and foreknowledge--through Abraham or through Abraham's bloodline. This is what God meant by, you shall be a blessing and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. Jesus is the Savior of the world (i.e. all the families of the earth) and He died for all people; Therefore, all people have the privilege to be blessed with salvation from sin. Can you see this? God preached the gospel to Abraham in advance and in anticipation of Jesus Christ's predestined arrival to this earth.

If you still cannot see the connection between Abraham and salvation made available to world through Jesus Christ then read Galatians 3:6-16. Here I have provided it for you:

Galatians 3:6-16
6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ .

First off, I do not serve "god" I serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob Whose Son is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, peejayd, you lack the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence and anointing, this is why you do not (and cannot) rightly divide the Word of Truth. This is why you struggle to understand the Scriptures. The same God Who created Adam and Eve (even though they committed high treason as it were in their betrayal against God) is the same God Who created the anointed cherub who became lifted up (i.e. proud) because of his beauty and later rebelled against God. God is not to blame for Adam's, Eve's, or lucifer's sin and rebellion. Have you done everything in compliance of God's Word? Let me answer that for you: categorically no! So based on your logic and rationale God must be cold-hearted then because He created you and you have rebelled against him as well. Can't you see how foolish this line of thinking is? But yet this is your case against the foreknowledge of God. Foreknowledge does not imply incompetence nor does it suggest ineptness on God's part. Peejayd if there is one thing that I have said before that you still have yet to grasp is that God does not violate anyone's will. God did not create nor desire to have a world full of automatons (i.e. robots). For this reason, humans and angels have volitional capacity (i.e. wills). God has given us the power to choose right or wrong, to serve God or not to serve God. Adam, Eve, lucifer, and people today and in the past (including me and you) have chosen the latter at some point in our lives. But this is not God's fault, so get over it and recognize that God is omniscient.

Psalm 94:11
11 The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are futile.

The Lord knows the thoughts of human beings because He is omniscient.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding [i.e. knowledge and mental grasp] is infinite [i.e. limitless].
* God knows what is in the heart of every person...

The Lord God's understanding (i.e. knowledge) is infinite. There is no limit to God's knowledge/understanding because God is omniscient.

And if these Scriptures aren't enough proof that God is omniscient then I will provide more.

1 John 3:20
20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.

Whoomp, there it is! Peejayd, I rest my case concerning God's omniscience. God knows all things; therefore, He knew that Adam, Eve, lucifer and people today would disobey and rebel against Him. As far as humans are concerned, this is why He preplanned to send Jesus Christ to die for our sins before the foundation of the world.

* but God does NOT know what will be your decision before you put your decision in your heart...

That is ridiculous peejayd. The ability to foretell the future events with remarkable precision and accuracy is one of God's attributes. And God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which means all three Persons have the ability to foretell the future. How do you think all of the prophets were able to predict the future? Think about this peejayd because your statements fly in the face of Scripture. Think about all of the prophecies concerning Jesus Christ. You don't think that God is all-knowing but yet prophecy after prophecy that is spoken through the mouth of God's prophets have come to pass. Here is another Scripture to validate what I speak.

JesusIsAlive Restricted

My response to peejayd part 3

Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

Did you catch that peejayd? God declares the end from the beginning and from ancient times things that are not yet done. How does He do this? God is able to do this because He is omnscient.

You know you need to get saved brother. It is conspicuously apparent that you are not saved because you lack basic spiritual sense and aptitude for understanding the Bible. You are not capable (without the Holy Spirit) of understanding the Word of God peejayd. I apologize if this offends you but someone has got to be upfront with you.

You just stated that God does not know what will be a person's decision until that person forms the thought (my paraphrase of what you said). I think this takes the cake in my interactions with you with respect to how spiritually incompetent you are in terms of understanding the Bible. Again, brother someone has got to tell you the truth. Your inability to understand the Bible is not a hopeless situation, all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. At that moment the Holy Spirit--Who is the Teacher--will give you the anointing to enable you to understand the Scriptures and put everything together accurately. Until such time as you do this you will continue to struggle and misunderstand the Bible. What you are saying peejayd is that God does not know the future, yet throughout the Bible God predicted the future. Jesus Christ--God in the flesh--predicted things as well.

Jesus told Peter,

"...before the rooster crows, you will deny Him three times."

Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple which came to pass some 40 years later when Roman soldiers under General Titus invaded Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

You do realize peejayd that every prophecy spoken by a prophet of God comes from the Holy Spirit don't you? Incidentally, this is more proof that the Holy Spirit is God.

Acts 21:9-11
Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. 10 And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”

Acts 28:25
So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers,

2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

So thus far I have shown by the Bible that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit each have predicted the future accurately because these three Persons are one God.

* that's why God tests people... to KNOW whether a person loves Him or not...

Peejayd God already knows what we are going to do before we do it, if He did not know this then neither would He know the future. How come you cannot see this? I know why but I just asked you this to get your attention. What it is peejayd is this: we don't know what we are going to do until the chips are down as it were. So God tests us or permits us to undergo tests for our sake not His.

* there are some instances when man did something that did not even came in the mind of God...

Psalm 44:21
Would not God search this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.

Luke 16:15
And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

Jesus Christ admitted that God knows our hearts.

This should dispel any more untruth that you have about God not knowing all things peejayd. God even knows the secrets of the heart.

Acts 15:8
So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

The apostle Peter acknowledged that God knows the heart.

Romans 2:16
in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

In order for God to judge the "secrets" of men (or people) peejayd God must be privy to this information. God is omniscient peejayd.

John 2:24-25
But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.

Jesus Christ knows what is "in" man and He knows all men because He is God and God is omniscient.

Hebrews 4:13
And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

God sees and knows all things because He is omniscient.

Matthew 10:26
Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.

The Lord Jesus (i.e. God the Son) states that all things will be revealed and known. How is God able to reveal things that are covered (i.e. secretive as far as we are concerned) and know things that are hidden? Glad you asked peejayd. God is able to do this because He is omniscient (i.e. knows all things).

1 Cor. 14:25
And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

The secrets of an unbelievers heart are revealed by the Holy Spirit because prophesy is inspired by the Holy Spirit. So yes, the Holy Spirit is God and God is omniscient.

The Bible states that in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. I have exceeded this requirement.

"And have built the high places of Ba'al to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Ba'al, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind;"
Jeremiah 19:5

* the burning of offsprings in the time of prophet Jeremiah did not even came into God's mind...

No, it did not come into God's heart in terms of it being His will for them to do. Notice that God says,

Jeremiah 7:31
"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.

The Lord God did not command them to burn their children in the fire because that is not in the heart of God. It is not consistent with His nature or will. Pagans and heathens would burn their children because that was consistent with their nature and with what they believed to be the will of their god. But that is not so with the true, living God. It is not in the heart (i.e. purpose, plan, or will) of Almighty God for us to sacrifice our children to Him. This is the correct understanding of this verse peejayd.

* you just quote the verses but doing it unsoundly and illogical...

This is your opinion and you are entitled to this. But I believe that what I quote comes across to you to be illogical and unsound because you are a natural man (i.e. a person who is not born again and hence not indwelt by the Holy Spirit). Here is what the Bible says about the natural man (or person):

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

JesusIsAlive Restricted

My response to peejayd part 4

You, peejayd, are a natural man. This is why you cannot understand the Bible. The Bible is not an academic textbook that any person (who is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit) can just arbitrarily open and expound, teach, and explain. There are textbooks and other works that are mundane and secular that you could open up and attempt to elucidate, such as man-made references that you find in bookstores, libraries, and classrooms. But the Bible is given by inspiration of God. In other words, its content is "spiritual" in nature, therefore, you must be spiritually equipped to understand it. You are not spiritually capable of understanding the Bible. You certainly are not equipped and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach the Word of God. Peejayd, there are those whom God calls and anoints to teach His Word. I am one of them. I have been supernaturally equipped by God through the Holy Spirit to teach His Word. Once you get born again you will be able to understand the Bible. You do not have to be called and anointed by God to teach His Word to understand God's Word once you get born again. You see peejayd once you get born again the Holy Spirit comes to live on the inside of your spirit. Your spirit is where the Holy Spirit imparts the anointing for you to compare spiritual things with spiritual things; thus, enabling you to recognize when someone is speaking or teaching in line with Scripture.

You are terribly in error. Nowhere peejayd is Christ referred to as "a" God. So for the final time you are in error.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Did you catch that peejayd? There is not an indefinite article anywhere near Jesus in terms of Him being God.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is God peejayd because God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is one but manifested as three, distinct Persons, all of Them co-equal and divine.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

One of your problems peejayd is the fact that when I say that Jesus is God you think that I mean that Jesus is the Father. You think that the term "God" belongs exclusively to the Father--but it doesn't. Remember, the Father God referred to His Son Jesus as God. Here is the proof:

Hebrews 1:8-9
But to the Son He [i.e. God the Father] says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

The Father God referred to Jesus as God not "a" God peejayd so why do you do this? You can not justify your persistence in calling Jesus "a" God and you most definitely cannot substantiate doing so by the Bible.

More Scripture references that substantiate the foreknowledge and predestination of God's plans and mysteries:

Matthew 25:34
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Luke 11:50
that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,

Ephesians 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:“ So I swore in My wrath,‘ They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20
He [i.e. Jesus Christ] indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Here is an interesting side note peejayd. Moses talks about God blotting him out of His Book.

Exodus 32:32
Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written.”

What Book is Moses referring to? I believe that it is the Book of Life. Predestination is another subject that I wll expound on at a later date. But God knew in advance who would accept Jesus and who would not, so I believe that He wrote our names in His Book before the foundation of the world as the Scriptures reveal. But this is another mystery.

Lord Urizen Perfection

Re: My response to peejayd part 4

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You certainly are not equipped and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach the Word of God. Peejayd, there are those whom God calls and anoints to teach His Word. I am one of them. I have been supernaturally equipped by God through the Holy Spirit to teach His Word. Once you get born again you will be able to understand the Bible. You do not have to be called and anointed by God to teach His Word to understand God's Word once you get born again.

This is where I draw the line....

It's official. You are a total nutcase...not only have you proven to be rather willfully ignorant of concrete facts and defiant of logic, but you have also CONFIRMED your delusional state of mind with this sorry excuse for a post.

JIA...please stop talking. You are giving Christianity a HORRIBLE horrible reputation...actually, you're just making an already critisized religion even more unappealing. 😘

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive God does not have to do anything that you deem that He should do. God has revealed that the Holy Spirit is God in ways that you refuse to believe and accept. This is the problem, not God.

* which is? your reply meant nothing... still, the Holy Spirit is not included in the declaration of Christ in John 10:30...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive This statement contradicts the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible is the Father and Christ said to be "Gods." The Lord our God is one (singular peejayd, not plural). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not "Gods" (plural) they are "God" (singular). Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him while He walked the earth in limited, human form. Christ is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God respectively. I have provided numerous Scriptures that substantiate this.

* even when Jesus was on earth, He is still a God that's why He accepts worship...

"For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* the fullness of deity or the fullness of Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily... so, even when He was here on earth, Jesus is still a God... and He said that the Father is greater than Him... simple as that...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Peejayd, the word "Trinity" and "Rapture" are not phrased in the Bible either but the reality of these truths is in the Bible. So it is with the truth that Jesus Christ is God, God the Son. Jesus Christ is both God (i.e. He occupies the Godhead just as the Father and the Holy Spirit) and simultaneously Jesus Christ is the Son of God (the Father). I don't understand what your hang up is with this or why you have a hard time dealing with this. I surmise that it may be because you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

* so you just admitted your term "Trinity" is unbiblical... thank you... the Bible teaches us of the Godhead and NOT the Trinity...

* may be the Holy Spirit do not dwell in me, huh? a very typical fake Christian - always judgmental...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive I never said that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world (you really need to deal with your selective hearing issues). God the Father saw Jesus as slain from the foundation of the world before it happened because that is the way that God operates. God sees the past, present, and future simultaneously. One mystery as it were that you need to understand about God is that He calls those things which be not as though they were. God declares the end from the beginning. In other words, God sees things as having been accomplished before they have actually happened. Why do you thing that God changed Abram's name to Abraham? Abram means, "exalted father." But Abraham means, "Father of a multitude." God called Abraham a father of a multitude before Abraham and Sarah even had one child. God even changed Sarai's name to Sarah which means, "princess." God sees things in advance (like I have been laboring to convey to you, God is omniscient) before they take place. I don' t what kind of God you serve that is not omniscient, but it certainly is not the God of the Bible.

* i don't have a problem about God's proclamations, it is absolute... the problem is your analysis... you claim the Holy Spirit dwells in you, how come you overlook the essence of the Bible? there is something God does not know, and that is the decision we will make...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive So when the Bible reveals that the Lamb (i.e. Jesus Christ) was slain from the foundation of the world this is talking about the plan of God in the beginning. God had already predestined to send Jesus to die for the sins of the world before the earth was created. This is something that I don't think that you are capable of understanding without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. I mean you are having a hard enough time understanding the Trinity. Why do you think that Jesus said over and over to His disciples that He would be betrayed into the hands of sinners, they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up? Jesus told Pontius Pilate, that he could have no power at all against Him unless it had been given from above. What do you think this means peejayd? It means that God had given Pilate authority to order Jesus' crucifixion. Nothing happened to Jesus that God did not permit in advance peejayd. Jesus knew everything that was to befall Him before it happened. The night that Jesus was about to be betrayed by Judas Iscariot, Jesus said to His disciples,

* Jesus knows He would be betrayed by one of His apostles but at first, when He called the Twelve, He does not know who is the betrayer... Jesus had known it was Judas when he was stealing money from their contributions and Satan entered in his heart...

"And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach
And have authority to cast out demons:
Simon whom he surnamed Peter;
James the son of Zeb'edee and John the brother of James, whom he surnamed Bo-aner'ges, that is, sons of thunder;
Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean,
And Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Then he went home;"
Mark 3:14-19

* remember that the Twelve, of course including Judas Iscariot, was given the power to cast out demons... if Jesus already knew this, He should not have appointed Judas in the first place... plus, Judas could not have the power to cast out demons if he was the betrayer even before he was called by Jesus...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive I would rest my case here concerning the fact that Jesus Christ's betrayal, arrest, torture, scourging, and crucifixion was the plan of God. God had already purposed to send His Son to die for the sins of the world. Jesus told those who came to arrest Him that day after day He taught in the temple and no one tried to arrest Him. Well, why not peejayd, why didn't they try to arrest Jesus then? Glad you asked. It is because it was not the right time for Jesus to die based on God's timing and plan. Why do you think that Jesus told them,

* maybe you overlooked this one too...

"Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands."
John 10:39

* i agree that God and Christ knew what would happened to Christ here on earth...

"Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, Whom do you seek?"
John 18:4

* my point is when the decision of man... God does not know the decision of man not until it came into the man's heart... that is the reason why God tests man...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Did you catch that peejayd? Jesus Christ of Nazareth was delivered (into the hands of sinners to be crucified) by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God.
I got four words for you peejayd: whoomp, there it is!
I told you God was omniscient and I told you that Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world (meaning that from God's point of view, He had predestined and preordained that His Son Jesus would be slain, and He preplanned this before the foundation of the world. Here is another Scripture supporting the foreknowledge of God peejayd:

* that is not my point... i believe in God's foreknowledge...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive That is not what that parable meant peejayd. Jesus Christ was destined to die before the foundation of the world. Do you understand the purpose of a parable? Parables are illustrative stories that convey spiritual truth in a manner that those whom Jesus addressed could relate to. Jesus couldn't tell those that He spoke to that God had predetermined to send Him to die for the sins of the whole world because the would not have been able to comprehend and grasp that. So Jesus told them something that they could wrap their minds around. Thus the parable of the vineyard.

* your analysis is a great misinterpretation... God should not have sent prophets in the first place if Christ Himself will be sent later on... you provide no sense of logic... the parable presents great illustrations on how the Son was not part of the plan... the Father does not want His Only Begotten Son to be hurt, the sending of Christ is the last ditch effort to save mankind...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive First off, I do not serve "god" I serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob Whose Son is the Lord Jesus Christ.

* i think not... your view of the Scriptures is unsound and illogical... 😉

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Now, peejayd, you lack the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence and anointing, this is why you do not (and cannot) rightly divide the Word of Truth. This is why you struggle to understand the Scriptures.

* the problem here is because your treat yourself in a pedestal... you are very judgmental... don't get personal, and let's talk about the Bible...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive The same God Who created Adam and Eve (even though they committed high treason as it were in their betrayal against God) is the same God Who created the anointed cherub who became lifted up (i.e. proud) because of his beauty and later rebelled against God. God is not to blame for Adam's, Eve's, or lucifer's sin and rebellion. Have you done everything in compliance of God's Word? Let me answer that for you: categorically no! So based on your logic and rationale God must be cold-hearted then because He created you and you have rebelled against him as well. Can't you see how foolish this line of thinking is? But yet this is your case against the foreknowledge of God. Foreknowledge does not imply incompetence nor does it suggest ineptness on God's part. Peejayd if there is one thing that I have said before that you still have yet to grasp is that God does not violate anyone's will. God did not create nor desire to have a world full of automatons (i.e. robots). For this reason, humans and angels have volitional capacity (i.e. wills). God has given us the power to choose right or wrong, to serve God or not to serve God. Adam, Eve, lucifer, and people today and in the past (including me and you) have chosen the latter at some point in our lives. But this is not God's fault, so get over it and recognize that God is omniscient.

* that line of thinking is not mine... and that line of thinking is the result of your misleading analysis and interpretation of the Scriptures...

* you see, at the end of Creation, God had seen that all is good... so, logically, when God created the angels, He knows the angels are good... but because He also gave the angels the power of free will, one of them rebelled... does God know that one of His creations would rebel against Him? of course not! because if He already knew that, He would not have created such au ungrateful creature...

* but according to your idiotic analysis, your "god" already knows... but still created the creature that will oppose him... your "god" is practically stupid...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Whoomp, there it is! Peejayd, I rest my case concerning God's omniscience. God knows all things; therefore, He knew that Adam, Eve, lucifer and people today would disobey and rebel against Him. As far as humans are concerned, this is why He preplanned to send Jesus Christ to die for our sins before the foundation of the world.

* another misinterpretation...

"Because if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things."
I John 3:20

* leaving aside your now-favorite catchphrase "whoomp, there it is"... the verse says God knows all things in our hearts... get down to the context, read between the lines, i thought you claimed the Holy Spirit dwells in you?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive That is ridiculous peejayd. The ability to foretell the future events with remarkable precision and accuracy is one of God's attributes. And God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which means all three Persons have the ability to foretell the future. How do you think all of the prophets were able to predict the future? Think about this peejayd because your statements fly in the face of Scripture. Think about all of the prophecies concerning Jesus Christ. You don't think that God is all-knowing but yet prophecy after prophecy that is spoken through the mouth of God's prophets have come to pass. Here is another Scripture to validate what I speak.

* now that the real point of the matter has been tackled, you say it's ridiculous? even your reply is unsound and illogical... you cannot refute my argument - God does not know what will be the decision before it was out in the heart, sorry...

* prophesies, foreknowledge, etc... i believe in those things, blah blah blah... no problem about that... the point is this: God does not know what will be the decision before it was out in the heart... and if you cannot refute this, i rest my case and you lose, oh Pedestalled One...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Peejayd God already knows what we are going to do before we do it, if He did not know this then neither would He know the future. How come you cannot see this? I know why but I just asked you this to get your attention. What it is peejayd is this: we don't know what we are going to do until the chips are down as it were. So God tests us or permits us to undergo tests for our sake not His.

* and the verse? overlooked again... the argument still stands: God tests people to KNOW whether a person loves Him or not... plain and simple...

Jesus Christ admitted that God knows our hearts.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive This should dispel any more untruth that you have about God not knowing all things peejayd. God even knows the secrets of the heart.

* again, you dropped the ball, missed it again, that's why i've skipped most of the post that does not fall in the category of my point... i believe God knows the secrets of the heart... the point is the decision BEFORE it came to the heart...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive No, it did not come into God's heart in terms of it being His will for them to do. Notice that God says,
Jeremiah 7:31
"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.
The Lord God did not command them to burn their children in the fire because that is not in the heart of God. It is not consistent with His nature or will. Pagans and heathens would burn their children because that was consistent with their nature and with what they believed to be the will of their god. But that is not so with the true, living God. It is not in the heart (i.e. purpose, plan, or will) of Almighty God for us to sacrifice our children to Him. This is the correct understanding of this verse peejayd.

* which is? again, your conclusion and not the Bible's... may i ask, did God know firsthand that the people will burn their children or not?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive This is your opinion and you are entitled to this. But I believe that what I quote comes across to you to be illogical and unsound because you are a natural man (i.e. a person who is not born again and hence not indwelt by the Holy Spirit). Here is what the Bible says about the natural man (or person):

* we discuss the Bible and our belief... not personal things... a very typical fake Christian statement...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive One of your problems peejayd is the fact that when I say that Jesus is God you think that I mean that Jesus is the Father. You think that the term "God" belongs exclusively to the Father--but it doesn't. Remember, the Father God referred to His Son Jesus as God.

* that is the result of your analysis and the unbiblical doctrine of Trinity... 😉