Qui-Gon vs Obi-Wan

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Qui-Gon was younger than Yoda or ANH Obi-Wan, so this argument does not make sense.

Also, Dolos, SW Tales are what-ifs, last I checked, and are not canon.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
All he knew was Ataru, and he was a human, in his 50's if I remember correctly, though I could be wrong, although, like I said, sources come from SW Wiki, who get direct sources from starwars.com. Ataru is usually the most physically demanding of all forms, and Qui-Gon's age caught up to him faster then Dooku, or Ben Kenobi. Also, I don't remember Ben Kenobi going Yoda style on Vader, they barely moved in the duel.

There are 50-60 year old vets that can murder people with their bare hands. A few years ago on a train in India, some ex-Gurka pulled a knife on some train hijackers and cut a few before the rest surrendered because he was that ****ing badass. He could qualify for a discount coffee here in America.

Additionally, age is not shown to make Jedi drastically weaker. Yoda's descriptor for Ataru in the original Fightsaber explicitly states that he uses the Force to overcome his physical limitations and be more than his crude flesh and bone can be. He says this as well in ESB, teaching Luke to use the Force to be his strength.

Dooku is also ancient compared to Qui-Gon, being his former master and a good 20+ years on him. He did an awesome job of defeating a LOT of people younger and with more vitality, so the idea that "he's old" again doesn't hold water.

Also, in the ANH fight, no one could move more than a bit because of how the lightsabers were rigged. They were powered by cords hidden in their sleeves/along their arms and they created the blade effect by quickly spinning small mirrored sides, which were then edited after the fact. They couldn't hit each other very hard, although David Prowse reportedly hurt Alec Guinness with a swipe at some point.

By the time of ESB, they had made the sabers out of metal, IIRC, and could do more realistic fighting. By the time of the PT, they used some plastic alloy some such and thus could smack each other all day while miming wushu.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
There are 50-60 year old vets that can murder people with their bare hands. A few years ago on a train in India, some ex-Gurka pulled a knife on some train hijackers and cut a few before the rest surrendered because he was that ****ing badass. He could qualify for a discount coffee here in America.

Additionally, age is not shown to make Jedi drastically weaker. Yoda's descriptor for Ataru in the original Fightsaber explicitly states that he uses the Force to overcome his physical limitations and be more than his crude flesh and bone can be. He says this as well in ESB, teaching Luke to use the Force to be his strength.

Dooku is also ancient compared to Qui-Gon, being his former master and a good 20+ years on him. He did an awesome job of defeating a LOT of people younger and with more vitality, so the idea that "he's old" Yuri yagain doesn't hold water.

Also, in the ANH fight, no one could move more than a bit because of how the lightsabers were rigged. They were powered by cords hidden in their sleeves/along their arms and they created the blade effect by quickly spinning small mirrored sides, which were then edited after the fact. They couldn't hit each other very hard, although David Prowse reportedly hurt Alec Guinness with a swipe at some point.

By the time of ESB, they had made the sabers out of metal, IIRC, and could do more realistic fighting. By the time of the PT, they used some plastic alloy some such and thus could smack each other all day while miming wushu.

I wouldn't trust that thing without having access to the source material. While it is a good stepping stone to start on the path to finding knowledge (like regular Wiki), it is subject to interpretation and sometimes even bias or omission by the editors. It's difficult to find a single character page that describes any Force user as "powerful" or a similar term, even if that individual is only good at using the Force to loosen their own stool.

ROTS Kenobi wins and I'm not sure how there is any doubt of that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
ROTS Kenobi wins and I'm not sure how there is any doubt of that.

Perhaps because you haven't presented an actual argument, just your absolute opinion. Try again, sharpshooter.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wouldn't trust that thing without having access to the source material. While it is a good stepping stone to start on the path to finding knowledge (like regular Wiki), it is subject to interpretation and sometimes even bias or omission by the editors. It's difficult to find a single character page that describes any Force user as "powerful" or a similar term, even if that individual is only good at using the Force to loosen their own stool.

That doesn't mean they draw the best conclusions or include all context. It's like a news article: an article is less valid than the sources which make it up and it may omit or twist facts due to natural reporter bias.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That doesn't mean they draw the best conclusions or include all context. It's like a news article: an article is less valid than the sources which make it up and it may omit or twist facts due to natural reporter bias.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
There are 50-60 year old vets that can murder people with their bare hands. A few years ago on a train in India, some ex-Gurka pulled a knife on some train hijackers and cut a few before the rest surrendered because he was that ****ing badass. He could qualify for a discount coffee here in America.

Additionally, age is not shown to make Jedi drastically weaker. Yoda's descriptor for Ataru in the original Fightsaber explicitly states that he uses the Force to overcome his physical limitations and be more than his crude flesh and bone can be. He says this as well in ESB, teaching Luke to use the Force to be his strength.

Dooku is also ancient compared to Qui-Gon, being his former master and a good 20+ years on him. He did an awesome job of defeating a LOT of people younger and with more vitality, so the idea that "he's old" again doesn't hold water.

Also, in the ANH fight, no one could move more than a bit because of how the lightsabers were rigged. They were powered by cords hidden in their sleeves/along their arms and they created the blade effect by quickly spinning small mirrored sides, which were then edited after the fact. They couldn't hit each other very hard, although David Prowse reportedly hurt Alec Guinness with a swipe at some point.

By the time of ESB, they had made the sabers out of metal, IIRC, and could do more realistic fighting. By the time of the PT, they used some plastic alloy some such and thus could smack each other all day while miming wushu.

👆

Which is why I really don't consider stylistic variances.

Not all Jedi age as gracefully as Dooku. There was a Sith in the Revan book who lost most of his power through old age, Satele states that shes diminished from her glory days, Obi-Wan is a hollow shell of what he once was, Yoda has to make up for his age etc. You can't dismiss the idea that Qui-Gon was lessened by his age just because some others weren't. Thats not how it works.

And besides, canonically he did, so suck it. 😛

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I see your point, but I trust them to a certain extent.

You do yourself injustice to let other people make the truth for you. You have Google search, you have broadband, but you don't use them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not all Jedi age as gracefully as Dooku. There was a Sith in the Revan book who lost most of his power through old age, Satele states that shes diminished from her glory days, Obi-Wan is a hollow shell of what he once was, Yoda has to make up for his age etc. You can't dismiss the idea that Qui-Gon was lessened by his age just because some others weren't. Thats not how it works.

And besides, canonically he did, so suck it. 😛

Proof plz.

Of what?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not all Jedi age as gracefully as Dooku. There was a Sith in the Revan book who lost most of his power through old age, Satele states that shes diminished from her glory days, Obi-Wan is a hollow shell of what he once was, Yoda has to make up for his age etc. You can't dismiss the idea that Qui-Gon was lessened by his age just because some others weren't. Thats not how it works.

And besides, canonically he did, so suck it. 😛

I believe Intrepid has the quote stating that Ben Kenobi is a shell of what he once was.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Of what?

I assume you're saying Qui-Gon, who was spinning like a top and moving faster than Obi-Wan, was weakened by the advanced old age of 50 in an age of space tech. Our own medicine allows people to function well into their 70s unless they are sedentary, which Jedi are not.

But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger. Qui-Gon was nearing sixty; his youth was behind him and his strength was beginning to diminish. His edge now, to the extent that he had one, came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsaber against him.

Qui-Gon.

So the TPM novelization, which came out before Yoda and Dooku drew sabers, is not at all suspect?

K.