i still don't think MOST of the feats you've posted have much to do with wanda herself. i fully agree that she consciously manipulated all of earth-616. but the whole destructive wave...i'll use an analogy. i shoot a missile at a dam. i am wanda, and the missile is her power. when the dam breaks and causes extra desctruction, is it really a reflection of MY power? i feel like the chaos wave was just a negative reaction to her global alteration.
Theres a video on newgrounds.com about HOM that shows exactly how i feel about Wanda's new power. cyclops says something like " dont you remember when wanda's powers just cause vague badluck".
Come to think of it i miss when Jean was just a mutant and wish they would have made the phoenix what they originally intended to and just make it Jean with a massive power increase which would later be decreased
Originally posted by manorastroman
i still don't think MOST of the feats you've posted have much to do with wanda herself. i fully agree that she consciously manipulated all of earth-616. but the whole destructive wave...i'll use an analogy. i shoot a missile at a dam. i am wanda, and the missile is her power. when the dam breaks and causes extra desctruction, is it really a reflection of MY power? i feel like the chaos wave was just a negative reaction to her global alteration.
See? this is what I mean someone shows you scans and you still BS around them.
Get over it, they don't support your side of things, you've lost this one move onto a battle where you have a hope of winning.
This is why I don't post scans, because no matter how often they are posted or re-posted you still don't get it.
By making us prove how very much Wanda would curbstomp the little bird, your actually doing damage to her rep on these boards.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
See? this is what I mean someone shows you scans and you still BS around them.Get over it, they don't support your side of things, you've lost this one move onto a battle where you have a hope of winning.
This is why I don't post scans, because no matter how often they are posted or re-posted you still don't get it.
By making us prove how very much Wanda would curbstomp the little bird, your actually doing damage to her rep on these boards.
there's a scan that says "and that chaos wave is directly wanda's power and she is controlling it the omniverse is in danger"???
your words mean less than dirt. at least there's beauty in dirt.
Originally posted by leonidas
you said it: SHE exploded it. it's her power. why would/should it affect her?
Yea, the other guy said the same thing, I conceded.
Originally posted by leonidas
and WHY did she blow it up?
That's simply the way she chose to do her thing.
Originally posted by leonidas
having jean blow her brain up before wanda has a chance to activate her powers would end it. can't change things if you're dead.
Your gonna have to give me proof of these super fast reflexes, because in epic debates with GS, I have studied Phoenix indepth and have never come across this.
And I'm not going to assume she has them because of the Cosmic thing neither, they never been depicted so maybe she doesn't have them.
Originally posted by leonidas
and surviving an arrow from hawkeye is hardly the same thing as what jean could do and is not definitive proof of immortality either. her brain was still able to function after hawkeye's attack, hence she could think and activate her power.
Speculation, but it does make sense.
Originally posted by leonidas
hard to do that if you are ashes or have no brain.
There's no proof that Wanda's Power doesn't act just as fast as Phoenix's would, and if they're the same speed, Wanda erases Jean, and even if Jean's power is faster, there's no proof that a ready Wanda is that vulnerable, quite to the contrary, aware she seems indestructible.
Originally posted by leonidas
in any event, i brought your name up because extant repeatedly brought it up is all.
I hear you.
Originally posted by manorastroman
i still don't think MOST of the feats you've posted have much to do with wanda herself. i fully agree that she consciously manipulated all of earth-616. but the whole destructive wave...i'll use an analogy. i shoot a missile at a dam. i am wanda, and the missile is her power. when the dam breaks and causes extra desctruction, is it really a reflection of MY power? i feel like the chaos wave was just a negative reaction to her global alteration.
I've never said Wanda controls the Wave, that's yall crazy madmen arguing that 😂
Wanda Re-created the 616 Universe, that's it, the Chaos Wave was generated by her Power but Wanda had NO control over it, this is why I don't attribute it to her, but we mustn't fool ourselves, the Wave was created by Wanda but yes, she didn't control it.
Now the Genis-Vell scans was Wanda's doing, completely, everything, with the exception of the Chaos Wave, EVERYTHING was controlled in its totality by Wanda.
The Chaos Wave though not controlled by Wanda, was only functioning because of Wanda.
The Chaos Wave would not have existed had it not been for Wanda.
The Chaos Wave is the most destructive force ever depicted by Marvel.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, the other guy said the same thing, I conceded.That's simply the way she chose to do her thing.
Your gonna have to give me proof of these super fast reflexes, because in epic debates with GS, I have studied Phoenix indepth and have never come across this.
And I'm not going to assume she has them because of the Cosmic thing neither, they never been depicted so maybe she doesn't have them.
Speculation, but it does make sense.
There's no proof that Wanda's Power doesn't act just as fast as Phoenix's would, and if they're the same speed, Wanda erases Jean, and even if Jean's power is faster, there's no proof that a ready Wanda is that vulnerable, quite to the contrary, aware she seems indestructible.
I hear you.
seeing how you are the main supporter on wanda's side with the only senseable argument i come to you with my questions
Originally posted by Mr MasterDude I looked at all your scans maybe you forgot to put the one in your claiming but none of them say those Chessboards are actual Multiverses and even still depicted they don't really show they are Multiverses either in fact they appear to be just like Phoenix's Universe in a palm deal that you got all over GS for
Whatever, I'm not taking you too seriously right now, I believe you have an agenda.The Merlin scans are dealing with the 616 Multi-verse as his Chess Board, it was mentioned several times AND it was ARTISTICALLY depicted.
The bottomline is you know nothing about the Captain Britain series, and apparently Marvel has given them jurisdiction over the OMNI-VERSE.
Again from Captain Britain issues.
The Omniversal Tribune can Erase any Universe they want.
"Destroy an ENTIRE Universe, are you people insane"?
"an ENTIRE Universe OBLITERATED in an Instant"
"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"
Believe me when I tell you I have no agenda here about trying to ruin your fantasy and also believe when I say this when I'm proven wrong I accept it and move on but in reality I've looked at everything you sent and you've shown a lot of nothing in showing Omniversal power levels and not simple Universal power or Multiversal at best.
In reality many higher ups in cosmics have said alot of things about rewriting the cosmos or having the power of God but when you look at on panel feats they have nothing.
The truth is you were and still are trying to claim that at the time when CB used Excalibur and the Amulet he was Omniversal in power and that he could destroy recreate and control everything in existence at that point.
I say if this is the truth then why in the world does he not use it more often to say get rid of any villian in his way or simply end all the pain and suffering in the world in an instance. He doesn't do that though. Also before you tell me that there is a balance there that he can not step Merlin didn't seem to care and even in your scan says that he shaped Men's Destinies thus implying he did in fact involve himself alot.
Instead he fights Dark X-Men and runs around with other people that aren't even World class powers and fighting third class villains sometimes.
Excuse me for being a little skeptical on him at any given point weilding Omniversal power because there seems to be a little I don't know gap between what he is and where your putting him. 😕
His title may sound great Guardian of the Omniverse where has he ever shown Omniversal power.
Originally posted by lando005
again i would like to go over this with you wanda's power has always been reality manipulation warping altering so on and so forth no where has it been seen that she can completely destroy and recreate a reality from scratch i seen the scans you posted from the house of m we see an all consuming light spreading forth i could understand you interpiting this as an explosion but if what your saying is true why didnt she just create a seperate universe from scratch? there would have been no reason to create the house of m reality or she could have made it it's own seperate universe 616B or something to that effect,
Well for starters I don't think she can create a Universe from scratch, atleast she never demonstrated it. So there can be no 616B.
I agree, she simply Re-created 616 Universe, that's all I been saying.
Why she destroyed the Universe before Re-creating it is unknown, that's the way it's depicted On Panel, all Seven times.
Originally posted by lando005
also if she could totally destroy and recreate the universe then why are there still mutant even though she stated no more mutants the statment stands for itself no more meaning 100% erradication of mutant kind not 99.9%, these things lead me to belive that wandas abilities have not expanded as far as your suggesting she still only alters the reality of what's already there just on a much larger scale now....
That's obviously a continuity issue, I'm sure Marvel didn't want to have every comic involving Mutants, on a powerless journey, that would have killed their sales (people by Comic to fantasize, not to indulge real life, like having no powers)
Originally posted by lando005
and i would still like to know how she suddenly reached said levels
That's called a Ret-con.
The Company changes their power set, increase or decrease.
An attempt at a continuity explanation is, it was always buried inside her, dormant and finally her Insanity gradually but quickly increased her power.
Originally posted by lando005
seeing how you are the main supporter on wanda's side with the only senseable argument
It's a question of who's proven themselves more, Wanda has shown more Power output and control over the Astral Plane, aswell as plucking 16,000,000 Souls from the Realm of Death, (does this show Power over Death, I don't know)
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well for starters I don't think she can create a Universe from scratch, atleast she never demonstrated it. So there can be no 616B.I agree, she simply Re-created 616 Universe, that's all I been saying.
Why she destroyed the Universe before Re-creating it is unknown, that's the way it's depicted On Panel, all Seven times.
That's obviously a continuity issue, I'm sure Marvel didn't want to have every comic involving Mutants, on a powerless journey, that would have killed their sales (people by Comic to fantasize, not to indulge real life, like having no powers)
That's called a Ret-con.
The Company changes their power set, increase or decrease.
An attempt at a continuity explanation is, it was always buried inside her, dormant and finally her Insanity gradually but quickly increased her power.
It's a question of who's proven themselves more, Wanda has shown more Power output and control over the Astral Plane, aswell as plucking 16,000,000 Souls from the Realm of Death, (does this show Power over Death, I don't know)
Originally posted by newjak86
Dude I looked at all your scans maybe you forgot to put the one in your claiming but none of them say those Chessboards are actual Multiverses and even still depicted they don't really show they are Multiverses either in fact they appear to be just like Phoenix's Universe in a palm deal that you got all over GS forBelieve me when I tell you I have no agenda here about trying to ruin your fantasy and also believe when I say this when I'm proven wrong I accept it and move on but in reality I've looked at everything you sent and you've shown a lot of nothing in showing Omniversal power levels and not simple Universal power or Multiversal at best.
You must of forgot that Jim Jaspers (the guy who made his Own Universe 238 and Warped 616 and was on the verge of flushing the Omni-verse into Chaos, is one of the pieces on the Chess Board.
Even Mad Jim Jaspers, (the Omniversal threat) is just One of their Game Pieces
What does that tell you, Merlin is running everything.
Do I have to post the Scans of Jaspers making his own Universe, or do you know anything about Mad Jim?
Referrence that the Game is the MULTI-VERSE:
READ the SCAN
"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"
CLEARLY telling us IF the GAME is LOST, SO is the MULTI-VERSE
AGAIN
Here in PLAIN ENGLISH:
Roma says, "The Game's disintegrating, but the MULTI-VERSE DEPENDS upon the GAME"
Roma thinks they've lost the 616 Multi-verse, but actually Merlin knew Jaspers would lose to the Fury, so he fakes his death and allows Roma to finish the rest.
AGAIN in another issue Years after:
"Merlin taught you that REALITY is a Grand Game of Chess"
Captin Britain knows about Merlins history, heck he was almost always involved, many times he has questioned Roma's motives because of this.
Here for a moment he thinks she's behind the Chaos Wave
"Is this YOUR doing Roma, are you PLAYING Another of your wretched GAMES"
Believe it or not, it's not inconceivable.
You yourself re-posted my scans, that show us a Universe being Erased with the flick of a switch, and that same guy saying that any Universe in the Omni-verse can be ERASED if he wishes.
Is he hyperboling after just doing it, I don't think so.
The Celestial Nullifier carries this capability to this day
"A few more seconds...and Brane (Universe) 616 will be no more"
Originally posted by lando005
destroying a universe is quite diffrent from mearly altering it wouldnt u agree, knowing the way things work in comics its a safe assumsion that if you have the power to destroy a universe you also posses the power to create one that's why i think wanda didnt destroy anything but the flashes we saw on panel was her altering 616....
Actually destroying a Universe is the easiest of all.
Remaking a Universe is more difficult than destroying it.
Creating a Universe is the hardest of all.
So actually it still stands, just like it was depicted On Panel, Wanda Destroyed the Universe and then Remade it just as quickly and easily.
You should know this, it's alot harder to create than to destroy in any spectrum of possibility.
Originally posted by lando005
as for the issue with her powerlevel this is the first time we've ever seen something like this from wanda or in fact any other omega level mutant it's safe to say that the HOM powerlevels far exceed omega level mutant levels and seeing how for mutants there is no higher than omega where did all that extra power come from cause it sure as hell couldnt all be from her otherwise she would be more than just a mutant
Your going to have to take that one up with Marvel.
It is what it is.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, the other guy said the same thing, I conceded.
cool.
Your gonna have to give me proof of these super fast reflexes, because in epic debates with GS, I have studied Phoenix indepth and have never come across this.
you've never seen jean or an avatar move ftl? i'd need to dig for scans, but as the embodiment of a cosmic entity does it not stand to reason that she could travel the cosmos ftl? or are you saying the ability to travel ftl does not equate to her neceassarily having more-than-human-reflexes?
There's no proof that Wanda's Power doesn't act just as fast as Phoenix's would, and if they're the same speed, Wanda erases Jean, and even if Jean's power is faster, there's no proof that a ready Wanda is that vulnerable, quite to the contrary, aware she seems indestructible.
and there's no proof that wanda could deal with having her brain crushed or having her dna rewritten to make her a regular human. i've really not contended much of what you said other than to say this battle is not as easy as extant was trying to make it. i've said all along that it could very well come down to a roll of the dice. i said the same thing when this thread was done several months ago. i gave jean the advantage then and now because if she is acting as the white crown i believe she would be able to react quicker than wanda, and having the ability to move at lightspeeds seems logical proof that she can process and react to information quicker than a normal person could.
I hear you. [/B]
cool.
So Jaspers makes his own Universe and the Omniversal Tribunal can destroy countless Universes
Where does that imply Omniversal power.
Because to be an Omniversal power would imply grand control over an Omniverse. Basically the ability to control make and recreate Omniverses.
All you've shown is one actual Multiversal feat with the Beyonders. Everything else has been just Universes.
You see my thinking is you are only as strong as what you can control. And honestly you must agree with me because you used the same logic on GS with the Endsong feat stating that because she has never shown any control over a Multiverse she can not be Multiversal just Universal.
As for the chessboards it never clearly states it is a Multiverse.
I can see where you could imply it but honestly its not clear one universe tumbling after another could imply that it is what you say them losing and as such more going bye bye on the same board or simply that they are going to use another board and it keeps happening.
It seems more confined then that to one event and one possible universe.
Edit: I hope this kind of clears up what I'm talking about here.
To be Omniversal you must be able to effect everything in the Omniverse at any given time have nothing out of your control that is in it.
What you've shown me is ability to do it in Multiversal and UNiversal terms but not Omniversal.
Originally posted by Mr Masterdestroying something would be to leave no trace behind if she was to destroy the universe there wouldnt be anything there for her to remake or recreate how could she rebuild from nothing?
Actually destroying a Universe is the easiest of all.Remaking a Universe is more difficult than destroying it.
Creating a Universe is the hardest of all.
So actually it still stands, just like it was depicted On Panel, Wanda Destroyed the Universe and then Remade it just as quickly and easily.
You should know this, it's alot harder to create than to destroy in any spectrum of possibility.
Your going to have to take that one up with Marvel.
It is what it is.
let me clearafy the question i'm asking you if 616 was a house and then wanda used her power to remake it she could easily clear off the house and reuse the foundation and materials of the house to build a new one of her design.... what your saying is that wanda destroyed everything house and foundation and just rebuilt the house from nothingness? where is the base for that new house where are the materials?
Originally posted by leonidas
you've never seen jean or an avatar move ftl?
Move? Never.
Fly? Yes.
And to be exact, LS was not reached instantly in a heart beat I believ it was reached, which is still slower than the time it takes to process a thought (around 20 milli-seconds)
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd need to dig for scans, but as the embodiment of a cosmic entity does it not stand to reason that she could travel the cosmos ftl?
Jean is not the Embodiment of the Phoenix, she's an Avatar like the rest, just the most powerful Avatar.
I'm sure Jean can fly as fast as she wants, but I believe she processes information like any other regualr Mutant or Human.
When Jean was conversating with "the consciousness" during the infamous #154 issue, she seemed kinda dumb even, nbot what one would expect from a Cosmic Intelligence, why would her thought process be any different.
Originally posted by leonidas
or are you saying the ability to travel ftl does not equate to her neceassarily having more-than-human-reflexes?
Something like that.
I've simply never seen any version of Phoenix doing Speed feats on that level.
Originally posted by leonidas
and there's no proof that wanda could deal with having her brain crushed
or having her dna rewritten to make her a regular human.
Has Phoenix?
Atleast Wanda got Shot in the Heart, by Hawkeye no less, precision accuracy and survived.
Jean croaks at the hands of,
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the White Phoenix of the Crown with an Electromagnetic Pulse
Wolverines Claws killed her once and some Shiar Lazer took the life out of her, it didn't disintergrate her, or re-wrote her DNA, but she died.
Originally posted by leonidas
i gave jean the advantage then and now because if she is acting as the white crown i believe she would be able to react quicker than wanda, and having the ability to move at lightspeeds seems logical proof that she can process and react to information quicker than a normal person could.
Jean isn't that smart, her brain is not Cosmic, it took her half the Comic book in #154 to figure out she just had to change the past.
Which again proves that Wanda is FAR beyond her in power, because Wanda Remade TIME several times, and Jean needed the White Hot Room plus she had to go back in TIME and change Scotts mind to aalter the Future.
While Wanda was Altering everyone's Future with a thought.
Originally posted by newjak86
So Jaspers makes his own Universe and the Omniversal Tribunal can destroy countless UniversesWhere does that imply Omniversal power.
I was showing you that just ONE piece on the Board can create a Universe, Alter another one 616 and left unchecked Re-Write the Omni-verse. (That was Jaspers)
The Tribune, is to show you just how much authority Captain Britain titles have over Marvel, I told you, they deal with the Omni-verse strickly.
Originally posted by newjak86
Because to be an Omniversal power would imply grand control over an Omniverse. Basically the ability to control make and recreate Omniverses.
There's only One Omni-verse and Merlin ONLY had Excalibur all that time.
And yet look at what he was capable of ONLY with the Sword of Might.
Originally posted by newjak86
All you've shown is one actual Multiversal feat with the Beyonders. Everything else has been just Universes.
I'll let the onlookers be the judge of that.
Originally posted by newjak86
You see my thinking is you are only as strong as what you can control. And honestly you must agree with me because you used the same logic on GS with the Endsong feat stating that because she has never shown any control over a Multiverse she can not be Multiversal just Universal.
I did show Proof of Merlin controlling and manipulting the Multi-verse, and just with the Swrod of Might.
Originally posted by newjak86
As for the chessboards it never clearly states it is a Multiverse.
Roma says, "The Game's disintegrating, but the MULTI-VERSE DEPENDS upon the GAME"
Originally posted by newjak86
I can see where you could imply it but honestly its not clear one universe tumbling after another could imply that it is what you say them losing and as such more going bye bye on the same board or simply that they are going to use another board and it keeps happening.It seems more confined then that to one event and one possible universe.
Pure speculation versus On Panel Art and character statements.
Originally posted by newjak86
Edit: I hope this kind of clears up what I'm talking about here.
I know where your coming from, but I think your forcing yourself to overlook the evidence.
Originally posted by newjak86
To be Omniversal you must be able to effect everything in the Omniverse at any given time have nothing out of your control that is in it.
What you've shown me is ability to do it in Multiversal and UNiversal terms but not Omniversal.
Again, Merlin ONLY had Excalibur.
It takes both Excalibur AND the Amulet of Right together, to give one Omniversal control.
The Multi-verse on a Chess board Feat and other Multi-verses floating around his Realm waiting to be manipulated, is just to show you the scope of Power Merlin had just with the Sword of Might.
