Originally posted by Mr Master👆
You're right.I was pointing out that they were both the same Parallax, which they are,
but from different Arcs.Jun updated me on the Timeline between Zero Hour and it's Tie-ins.
-Side question-
Can you tell me around what level the being called Topographical Man, is in?
Originally posted by Merlyn
Can you tell me around what level the being called Topographical Man, is in?
TM is a like a living Double Stellar System.
TM is unfathomably large, possessing an Arm-span of Light Years.
Each of his hands contains a Sun. His body contains its own atmosphere and numerous people exist on his surface. Much of his surface is covered by sandy deserts. He is incapable of movement, and feeds from the energy obtained by the Karanada.
The Karanada is a single grain of sand from TM's body, it was imbued with power by TM, and through the Karanada, (who consumes beings for energy) TM feeds.
This cat is huge,
the Solar System (from the Sun to Pluto) has a distance of about 4 Billion Miles.
1 lightyear = 5,878,499,814,186.5 miles
TM , has an "Arm-span of Light Years" ... ouch.
Unforunately while Sentient it can't move or fend for itself,
and must rely on minute creations to survive.
(Don't know where to place him because of this)
Although I must concede, Karanada did take out some Guardians of the Galaxy,
so it can't be that weak either.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
Yo Mr. Master why did you put Thanos w/HOTU above preretcon beyonder? PR beyonder killed death...something Thanos HOTU didn't do.
THOTI didn't kill Gamora and Warlock either, while it absorbed the LT.
That right there tells us it had nothing to do with Death resisting THOTI,
Death survived,
because like Gamora, Warlock and all the Universal Anchors (like Atleza)
they were is a Realm Beyond Space & Time.
Thanos absorbed all of Space of Time (Reality)
anything outside or beyond Reality (Space & Time) survived apparently.
We can come to this conclusion by the Gamora ... Death survival,
Two beings on totality opposite sides of the spectrum,
both surviving the same attack the LT did not.
Is it a coincidence that Atleza's domain is "Beyond Space & Time" as is Death's?
Of course not,
so this is why Death survived. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI didn't kill Gamora and Warlock either, while it absorbed the LT.That right there tells us it had nothing to do with Death resisting THOTI,
Death survived,
because like Gamora, Warlock and all the Universal Anchors (like Atleza)
they were is a Realm Beyond Space & Time.Thanos absorbed all of Space of Time (Reality)
anything outside or beyond Reality (Space & Time) survived apparently.We can come to this conclusion by the Gamora ... Death survival,
Two beings on totality opposite sides of the spectrum,
both surviving the same attack the LT did not.Is it a coincidence that Atleza's domain is "Beyond Space & Time" as is Death's?
Of course not,
so this is why Death survived. 🙂
Well the PR Beyonder was also "beyond", hence his name lol, space and time. You didn't answer my question though. Why did you put Thanos HOTI above PR Beyonder? I think they should be tied for 2nd and that PR molecule man should be bumped to 3rd.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
Well the PR Beyonder was also "beyond", hence his name lol, space and time.
Yea, but Pre-retcon Beyonder didn't exist during the End saga so that's inconsequential.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
You didn't answer my question though. Why did you put Thanos HOTI above PR Beyonder?
Because THOTI is the Power of "the Almighty" ... God/TOAA.
TOOA/God >>>> Any Beyonder incarnation.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
I think they should be tied for 2nd
Nah.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
and that PR molecule man should be bumped to 3rd.
MM is below Beyonder but not by much, demonstrated on panel.
I would say MM had maybe 60 to 75% of Beyonder's level of power.
"Yea, but Pre-retcon Beyonder didn't exist during the End saga so that's inconsequential."
What's your point? Thanos with HOTI didn't exist in Secret Wars. The statement is pointless.
"Because THOTI is the Power of "the Almighty" ... God/TOAA.
TOOA/God >>>> Any Beyonder incarnation."
PR Beyonder had the power of the writers.
"Nah."
Uh yea. Since they both had the powers of the writers they should be 2nd, behind the editors and writers themselves.
"MM is below Beyonder but not by much, demonstrated on panel.
I would say MM had maybe 60 to 75% of Beyonder's level of power."
He is below Beyonder as you admitted, even if it wasn't by much as you claim. Therefore, he should be ranked below him.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
"Yea, but Pre-retcon Beyonder didn't exist during the End saga so that's inconsequential."What's your point? Thanos with HOTI didn't exist in Secret Wars.
The statement is pointless.
Actually the "Celestial Order" from the END arc,
were invented before even the Beyonder was introduced.
They weren't known as such,
but it was the Original Akhenaten (Aknaton) that was visited by the Celestial Order:
Here is Akhenaten when he was known as "Aknaton" (back in the day)
meeting the Celestial Order for the first time in Reality 4321, (Ancient Egypt actually)
which is the Past of the 616 Reality:
This is when Jim Starlin first created Akhenaten (Aknaton) and the Celestial Order, they weren't known as such back then, but as you can see, this is where Jim developed the relevant characters in the End from, years ago.
Akhenaten was introduced in Marvel after this, but before the End.
The Celestial Order, though deriving from this God-like character Aknaton referred to as "Ra" ...
were actually officially introduced as the "Celestial Order" in the End arc.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
"Because THOTI is the Power of "the Almighty" ... God/TOAA.TOOA/God >>>> Any Beyonder incarnation."
PR Beyonder had the power of the writers.
I deal with Comics, and what happens in Comics,
and I strengthen my case with Bios that correspond with the On Panel senerio.
I'm not into that "power of the writers" thingy.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
"Nah."Uh yea. Since they both had the powers of the writers they should be 2nd, behind the editors and writers themselves.
THOTI was the THOTI, (Power of TOAA) not the power of the Writers.
There is absolutely NO evidence stating TOAA/GOD is the Editors or Writers
or anything other than Comic Book characters. that goes for THOTI too.
If you have proof to the contrary, please post it.
It was I, who speculated on who those cats are in FF#511, it seemed logical,
but it was NEVER a conclusive statement of mine, I made that clear.
I now KNOW, that the "GOD" & "Collaborator" in FF#511,
does not represent the REAL Writers or Artists in the REAL World.
Only that GOD/TOAA of Marvel operates in the same fashion as REAL World Artists & Writers.
GOD (an Artist) discusses what we read in Marvel with his
"Collaborator" (presumably, TOAA)
The "Collaborator" (presumably, TOAA) dictates Reality,
and GOD draws it into existence.
So while obviously operating in the SAME manner as a Comic Book Co. does,
they are still characters in a Comic,
that resemble the "Artists" and "Writers" of REAL World Comics.
(excerpt from the Fantastic Four Ultimate Guide)
"The FF were amazed to find out,
that He "sketched out" Reality in the SAME way a Comic-Book Artist"
Originally posted by tooa/presence
"MM is below Beyonder but not by much, demonstrated on panel.I would say MM had maybe 60 to 75% of Beyonder's level of power."
He is below Beyonder as you admitted, even if it wasn't by much as you claim. Therefore, he should be ranked below him.
It's not below enough to make him an entire spot lower.
MM went toe to toe with the Beyonder and nearly got the best of him.
MM shielded himself, the Heroes and REMOVED everything in the Multiverse that was in the way of Beyonder's death blast that reached the "Ends of Infinity"
MM shielded the ENTIRE Multiverse from Beyonder's Power at the end of Secret Wars when Beyonder died and ALL of his power was unleashed, MM BLOCKED it from eraing everything.
MM also RE-DIRECTED Beyonder's Power (Millions of Time more than the Multiverse) into the Beyond Realm, where Beyonder's Power created an Infinite Universe that continued to expand into a Multiverse.
..............................................................................
This is my take on the matter,
but it's a free country brotha,
so if you disagree that's cool,
you can always make your own thread with a Hierarchy. 🙂
"I deal with Comics, and what happens in Comics,
and I strengthen my case with Bios that correspond with the On Panel senerio.
I'm not into that "power of the writers" thingy."
Fair enough. I'm more into that power of writers thing because on panel evidence often contradicts logic. But even going by on panel feats, PR Beyonder had equally impressive feats and one can even argue more impressive feats.
However for the PR Beyonder and MM ranked the same 👇 PR Beyonder was imposing limits on himself and still was more powerful than PR MM. Plus, it doesn't matter even if it was a little more powerful, the more powerful one should be ranked higher. 1.0001>1.00001
Originally posted by tooa/presence
"I deal with Comics, and what happens in Comics,
and I strengthen my case with Bios that correspond with the On Panel senerio.
I'm not into that "power of the writers" thingy."Fair enough. I'm more into that power of writers thing because on panel evidence often contradicts logic.
I like to keep it in Comics.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
However for the PR Beyonder and MM ranked the same PR Beyonder was imposing limits on himself and still was more powerful than PR MM. Plus, it doesn't matter even if it was a little more powerful, the more powerful one should be ranked higher. 1.0001>1.00001
Absolutely,
which is why MM is below Beyonder, but within the same spot.
Which basically means,
Beyonder is more powerful than MM,
and Beyonder will always defeat MM,
but not by much. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterRight, I know all that,
TM is a like a living Double Stellar System.TM is unfathomably large, possessing an Arm-span of Light Years.
Each of his hands contains a Sun. His body contains its own atmosphere and numerous people exist on his surface. Much of his surface is covered by sandy deserts. He is incapable of movement, and feeds from the energy obtained by the Karanada.
The Karanada is a single grain of sand from TM's body, it was imbued with power by TM, and through the Karanada, (who consumes beings for energy) TM feeds.
This cat is huge,
the Solar System (from the Sun to Pluto) has a distance of about 4 Billion Miles.
1 lightyear = 5,878,499,814,186.5 miles
TM , has an "Arm-span of Light Years" ... ouch.
Unforunately while Sentient it can't move or fend for itself,
and must rely on minute creations to survive.(Don't know where to place him because of this)
Although I must concede, Karanada did take out some Guardians of the Galaxy,
so it can't be that weak either.
But if you HAD to rank TM in the raw power department... Where do you think he'd be?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I like to keep it in Comics.Absolutely,
which is why MM is below Beyonder, but within the same spot.
Which basically means,
Beyonder is more powerful than MM,
and Beyonder will always defeat MM,but not by much. 🙂
Just wondering why didn't you enitrely quote "Fair enough. I'm more into that power of writers thing because on panel evidence often contradicts logic. But even going by on panel feats, PR Beyonder had equally impressive feats and one can even argue more impressive feats."
You only quoted
"Fair enough. I'm more into that power of writers thing because on panel evidence often contradicts logic"
Maybe it was because you responded before I was finished editing lol
Originally posted by Merlyn
But if you HAD to rank TM in the raw power department... Where do you think he'd be?
I'm not sure.
His creation the "Karanada" is just a grain of sand from his surface.
It begins being able only to consume small objects Human size, it grows in power and proceeds to consume anything until Planet, Stars and even whole Galaxies are absorbed.
These consumptions get transported to TM who then consumes it himself.
The Karanada seemed unstoppable for the most part
but it has a great Weakness to strong spirited beings.
TM was destroyed by the way by Vance Astro and that chick (forgot her name) they became as immense as TM by linking with the Spiritual Plane and merged with him, he exploded.
SO again,
TM himself couldn't do anything, except create the Karanada to feed.
The Karanada on panel was able reach the level to absorb atleast a Galaxy.
.....................................................................
The Karanad seems like Skyfather level to me. (assuming it reaches this scale)
The lowest cats on the Hierarchy list in here, are above Skyfather.
TM himself was obliterated without the greatest of efforts.
Originally posted by tooa/presence
Just wondering why didn't you enitrely quote "Fair enough. I'm more into that power of writers thing because on panel evidence often contradicts logic.
Well I answered this one,
and that answer was,
"I like to keep in Comics" ... regardless of any logical reasons,
but that's me. 🙂
Originally posted by tooa/presence
But even going by on panel feats, PR Beyonder had equally impressive feats and one can even argue more impressive feats."
Feats is alot, but not everything.
THOTI erased the LT and eveything else within Time & Space in the Prime Multiverse.
THOTI re-created the Prime Multiverse and eveything in it, anew.
THOTI made Thanos eveything within the Omniverse.
THOTI was stated to be by Eternity, LT, Warlock and many others,
as being the Power of the "All Mighty" ... the "Supreme Being" ..."HE"
That right there is sufficient, but the Feats and qualified statements sealed the deal.
Also, just something that's been bothering me...
If altering time means that you create a new universe everytime you do it... then doesn't that mean that Jeanix created a universe?
And doesn't it also mean that she destroyed a universe?
Since, she practically erased the future timeline and changed it.
Which, based on something I don't agree with, it would mean she should theoretically at least, have destroyed, and created a new universe.
Originally posted by Tyrant
If altering time means that you create a new universe everytime you do it...
Yes.
Originally posted by Tyrant
then doesn't that mean that Jeanix created a universe?
No.
Originally posted by Tyrant
And doesn't it also mean that she destroyed a universe?
No.
Originally posted by Tyrant
Since, she practically erased the future timeline and changed it.
She never did that.
She ampuated it and then Repaired it in the WHR.
Scott changed it inadvertantly with a decision he made,
Jean manipulated his decision though.
Originally posted by Tyrant
Which, based on something I don't agree with, it would mean she should theoretically at least, have destroyed, and created a new universe.
No.
The Multiverse is made up of Infinite Universes.
There are Two types of Universes.
Alternate Universes and Divergent Universes.
Alternate Universes are similar to the 616 Reality but possess many inherent differences.
Divergent Universes share a common History with 616 until they Diverge at a specific point.
Each Universe has a number of Timelines connected to it,
(depending on the age of said Universe)
Each Timeline, (one possible Universe for each second of Time) exists within a perpetual Timeloop where Reality never changes, in other words, History is stuck in that moment of Time.
So if you travel back to the year 1492 from the 616 Universe in 2007,
you'l inadvertantly create a Timeline to introduce Reality to the year 1492 again. This Reality in tern gains independance and becomes a Universe of it's own where perhaps you stop Columbus from "discovering" America, therefore Altering that point in History and ultimately paving the way for a Universe that takes on a life of it's own. Thus this becomes Reality 15104 for example like in the Jean scenerio.
............................................................................
On the Jean feat.
Jean amputated a Future Timeline that belonged to Realtiy 15104:
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)
............................................................................
Jean could've destroyed that Timeline I'm sure but she Repaired it instead in the WHR:
This is actually the process taking place of a FUTURE Timeline being Repaired,
The "Claw" takes the Future Timeline into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"
As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal, Power is Flowing,
that's Phoenix REPAIRING the FUTURE Atomically.
THEN
Jean loses concentration "IN THERE" (Inside the White Hot Room)
and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE QUICKLY"
"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating)
Make better What?
FUTURE ... (or Future Timeline which is what she Amputated)
(Like I said, Atomically)
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,
NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
THEN
Jean goes 150 years into the Past of Reality 15104 which is when it Diverged from 616:
"Live Scott"
Scotts decision not only Created Reality 15104 ... but it also Altered that possible Future:
(Phoenix did manipulate Scott into Altering the Future)
but Scott inadvertantly Created Reality 15104 on his own through a Divergence,
and Altered it aswell:
