Everything COSMIC in Marvel - the Hierarchy, Battles, Feats, Q & A , scans galore!

Started by GalacticStorm178 pages

Calm down Mr Master, just presenting an opposing viewpoint. I haven't been confrontational or aggressive in the slightest, must you merely because i don't agree with you? 😕

At the end of the day its clear as day that the Entity is no powerhouse, he's been battered to the brink of defeat by his race and he flees to Earth for the F4's aid.

Does that sound like omniverse creator material to you?

He travels back in time with Reed and its clearly stated that its the question of existence that triggers the creation event:

Not a matter of power. The Entitys curiosity was merely the catalyst.

As stated later, the physical reality awakened as a result of Eternitys questions about the meaning of his own existence.

As stated Reed and the Entity are as much a part of Eternity as the stars so that is how a shape shifter and a minor cosmic fleeing from a battering could trigger the creation event.........as extensions of Eternity.

The Alien Entity re-creates the entire Marvel Universe (Omniverse)
by manipulating the "Engines of Creation"

The Alien Entity used Reed's mind as a guide to re-create Marvel properly.

The Alien Entity merged with the "Fires of Creation"
and according to Marvel itself,
the Alien Entity indeed, became the sentient Marvel Universe embodied.

..................................................................................................

The Alien Entity was escaping from his people who were trying to kill him,
but in reality the Alien was just manipulating Reed into coming with him through the Negative Zone Displacement Vortex:

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Reed, always hungry for Knowledge, accepts the Alien's offer,

The Alien Entity then takes Reed in a ride through Cosmic Time:

Reed says,

"Did I just die? I can feel my body but there is no heartbeat ... no breath ...
no heat ... no cold ... not numb ... not in negative zone ...
not in normal space ... between the moments,

between here and there ... between then and now ...

between existence and the void"

..................................................................................................

Unbeknown to Reed, the Alien is actually collapsing Time & Space:

"Stars pinwheel in front of my eyes...

constellations die...galaxies collide, shatter and reform...

I'm not just seeing the canvas of Creation ...

I'm touching the Fabric"

The Alien Entity says,

"We are drawn back in Time"

Reed asks,

"Back to where"

The Alien Entity replies,

"The Beginning of Everything ... Where the Universe began ...

and our questions may end,

we are going to what Was ... BEFORE what is ... is."

..................................................................................................

The Alien Entity and Reed reach the point before the Universe began,
before there was anything,
when the Infinite Energy that spawned the Omniverse
was but a pea size concentration of all that is, all that was, all that will ever be.

The Alien Entity performs an unimaginable feat,

the Alien Entity extracts the "SPARK" that ignites the Big Bang,
from within his body which contains a Galaxy:

Which means the Alien Entity is the True "SPARK that ignites Creation"

(ON Panel)

"The Void. The Timeless, Spaceless ... Pre-Creation hesitation ...

the Nothing that existed before there was existence.

The Void ... all that is, all that was, before what you call ... the Big Bang."

..................................................................................................

Here it is On Panel,

the "SPARK that ignites Creation" doing exactly that:

Reed says,

Are you saying that WE ... You, and I ... that Our Desire to understand ...

was the SPARK that Lit the Fire of Creation?"

The Alien Entity responds,

"There is but one way to be sure ... Let There Be Light"

..................................................................................................

"Let the Universe itself ... Become!"

..................................................................................................

The Alien Entity releases the Creation of All that is (Omniverse) at light speed:

"In the Void that was there before the Big Bang, before everything that is, was ...

in that silent Creation hesitation, the Entity asked a question,

and now ... that Question ... has SPARKED the Engines of Creation"

..................................................................................................

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But Creation isn't working:

.................................................................................................

Because even the Entity can't control the Creation process:

"I cannot control ... what We with a Question ... with a Thought ... Created"

..................................................................................................

The Alien Entity has the power but not the knowledge to Re-Create Everything,
so the Alien Entity merges with Reed's magnificent Mind to find balance,
in order to Re-Create properly:

the Alien Entity says,

"Then let me ... open your mind ... to Me ... to the Fires of Creation"

..................................................................................................

On Panel ...

the Alien Entity Lit the Fires of Creation with a SPARK that he housed within his body.

On Panel ...

the Alien Entity uses Reed's Mind to Re-Create the Marvel Universe.

..................................................................................................

On Panel ... it happening:

The Entity and Reed reach satisfaction in understanding:

"The Universe itself is Sentient ... Conscious ...

a Universe that is trying to understand itself"

..................................................................................................

This is incredible.

Now that the Marvel Universe has been Remade anew,

The Alien Entity and Reed become one with Reality.

..................................................................................................

Reed actually manipulates the Origin of the Fantastic Four, (writing reality)

in fact, it's because of him that they got their powers to begin with,

Reed actually orchestrated the Origin of the FF:

The Alien Entity says,

"Yes I/We/the Universe will continue to grow ..
and you will be a part of the End ...
as you were a part ... of the Beginning ...

There ... the Cosmic Rays ... with a thought you can make them what you wish"

Reed says,

"I realized that those thoughts Created the precise combination of Rays
that made us into what we became ... that gave us our powers,

I suspected that there was an intelligence behind those effects,

and now I know ... IT WAS ME"

..................................................................................................

Reed sees the birth of the Fantastic Four
and continues to repeat that it was Him who manipulated everything
in this moment while he was still merged with the Alien Entity and the Universe:

The Alien Entity says,

"You are Free ... of your Human bonds, you can continue with me ... into the Future,

you saw the Beginning ... do you wish to see the End?"

Reed decides to stay with his family as himself in the present:

"Choose your moment Richards, Choose it now,

and take with you the gratitude ... of the Universe ... that you helped Birth"

..................................................................................................

Reed willed the Rays to give them their specific powers in the Past
(while they were still Creating)

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Remember in this scan Reed seems to manipulate the Rays themselves:

The Alien Entity told Reed he could do it with a thought. (at this point they were both Gods)

"And as the Cosmic Rays pass through me,
I can feel their Nature Altering by exposure to my thoughts"

..................................................................................................

Then as you continue to read you see that Reed is thinking about his team,
and their personalities, their personalities mimic their powers,
that's not a coincidence,
that was Reed who engineered the Cosmic Rays to affect them in that specific manner.

But it also seems upto this point, he was ignorant about it.

..................................................................................................

A Billion years later
they touched Reed and his team in the spaceship
and history was written.

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Which is where the paradox lies ... how can this be?

How could it have always been?

IMO, once Reality is re-written on this scale,
the original Past of any specific moment becomes nullified if altered.

So where have you dealt with the statement that says that the creation event was TRIGGERED by the pairs QUESTIONS on existence.

Why are you portraying this scene as if the Entity generated the Big Bang and all of reality?

Where have you dealt with the fact that its stated that the creation event was triggered by ETERNITYS questions on his own existence?

The bit that states the duo are as much Eternity as the stars which therefore means it is in that capacity that they TRIGGERED the creation event as Eternity originally did.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No i've never read it. I never quite understood it though,
and this explanation makes more sense.

Cool, I'm only truly interested in what Marvel thinks,
and Marvel agrees with my explanation/interpretation.

Although it's clear as day,
only an agenda minded person would see it differently. (not you K)

Anywho,

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe ... whistling

"Richards and the Entity found themselves adrift in time and space,
drawn back by their inquisitiveness to the beginnings of the universe
."

(Reed & Alien reach the pre-Big Bang period)

"The question was how did existence come from non-existence —
the question was the fire, born of their need to understand,
and it became the spark that lit the fire of creation
."

(with a simple question ... Alien was able to CREATE the "Spark" that initiates Creation)

"The Entity merged with the energies and forces that became creation,"

(Alien becomes One with that power - "fire of creation" ... oh yea)

"but because it searched for only for truth,
it lacked the knowledge to form anything but chaos and destruction
."

(So it was indeed, the Alien who was Re-Creating Marvel,
but it needed Reed's mind as a guide)

"Richards, still outside of time, had searched always for knowledge,
and the pair could bring balance to the creation before it returned to the void
."

(what I tell ya) 🙂

"The universe was created—
a sentient, conscious universe that,
in trying to understand itself, gave birth to growth, to struggle, to life.

In trying to understand itself?" hm

(So the Alien Entity became the Marvel Universe,
by rewriting Time and becoming what always was)

...............................................................................

That should stomp the agenda minded Bull shit ... swank

Dude, I saw your point, it's just the same old fallacies of old.
You can't stand any other character performing feats, that Phoenix can't.

So go make your own thread,
and spew whatever you wish there.

The story arc was just a depiction of the theory that thought and perception equals reality, that is all.

The sentience of the universes thoughts of reality triggered the physical reality as stated. Reed and the Entity as stated ARE Eternity as much as the stars therefore in that capacity they were able to trigger the physical awakening of reality as Eternity originally did.

Reeds perceptions shaped the cosmic rays. The theory of perception equals reality explored on panel for us lovely readers 🙂

Or would you like us to believe a minor cosmic who could barely manage a global teleport to escape his people and a shapeshifter just became the creators of reality? 😕

Right and I agree that the Aliaen entity became everything, but it's clearly stated on panel that the question created the spark and not any power on the part of the alien. They say it like five times.

The question was how did existence come from non-existence— the question was the fire, born of their need to understand, and it became the spark that lit the fire of creation
The universe was created—a sentient, conscious universe that, in trying to understand itself, gave birth to growth, to struggle, to life.

Sorry to tell ya, but that sites account supports what i just said, you know about the question triggering the physical reality.

It says nothing and neither does the comic about the Entity creating the omniverse from his own power. What IS stated is that the questioning of existence is what sparked the creation event.

What IS stated is that the sentience of the universe's questions on its own existence resulted in the physical universe. 😬

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right and I agree that the Aliaen entity became everything, but it's clearly stated on panel that the question created the spark and not any power on the part of the alien. They say it like five times.

Precisely. ✅ 👆

I'm not debating against the view that the Entity became one with the fabric of reality, just that the question is what triggered the creation event as stated multiple times. NOT any power inherent to the Entity or Reed Richard 😬

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right and I agree that the Aliaen entity became everything,

Damn skippy.

Originally posted by King Kandy
but it's clearly stated on panel
that the question created the spark and not any power on the part of the alien.

Right,

1. Who's question?

2. Where did the Spark come from?

3. Who re-created the Marvel Universe with Reed's mind?

Realize how all three answers lead back to the Alien Entity. 🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy
They say it like five times.

If you go back to the original debate, you'l see
I never said the Alien used his own power to do anything.

I always said,
the Alien was able to manipulate/harness/control the "engines of creation"
because the AE merged with those energies.

The Alien also created the "Spark" (how he did it is inconsequential)
because the "Spark" clearly came from withIN him.
It didn't just pop out of the air when they asked the question.
So the AE was vital to this creation process.

Here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=425758&pagenumber=119

Originally posted by Mr Master

I also took something into consideration, a good point you brought up.
Did Reed & the Alien replace the IB?

I don't think so, because the "engine of Creation" was self perpetuated,
the Alien only shaped the Marvel Universe
with Reed's guidance back to it's normality.

The Alien was able to travel back in Time while folding Time & Space. (tremendous feat)

Imo, the "engines of creation" are the IB's Infinite energies at work.
Or, the IB's been retconned,
and the "engines of creation" is God/Toaa creating the Marvel Universe on a piece of paper.


Although Toaa/god could simply use the IB as his creation tool,
still Toaa/god in the end,
since everything concerning the Oniverse is but drawings on paper to them.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It says nothing and neither does the comic about the Entity
creating the omniverse from his own power.

I never said that .... soooo I guess your spam was in vain.

In the end,

the Alien Entity reverted Space/Time to it's pre-creation point,
the Alien Entity created the "Spark" from withIN his own body with a question,
the Alien Entity put the "Spark" into motion,
the Alien Entity merged with the "Engines of Creation"
the Alien Entity needed Reed's mind as a guide
to re-create the Omniverse from nothingness,
the Alien Entity w/Reed's mind, re-create all of Marvel,
the Alien Entity merged with the Future too, not just the Past & Present.

Fin.

AE is an uber "god" now,
that embodies all of Marvel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right,

1. Who's question?

2. Where did the Spark come from?

3. Who re-created the Marvel Universe with Reed's mind?


AE for all three. But there's no power involved here, even in the last feat he's simply using the universes natural power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Alien also created the "Spark" (how he did it is inconsequential)
because the "Spark" clearly came from withIN him.
It didn't just pop out of the air when they asked the question.
So the AE was vital to this creation process.

Actually it pretty much did appear out of nowhere when they asked the Question. Even read Richards was confused since it just appeared. Then AE says that it came from within him (since he asked the question). If Reed Richards asked the question instead of AE, he would have had the spark appear.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said that, so I guess your spam was in vain.

In the end,

the Alien Entity reverted Space/Time to it's pre-creation point,
the Alien Entity created the "Spark" from withIN his own body with a question,
the Alien Entity put the "Spark" into motion,
the Alien Entity merged with the "Engines of Creation"
the Alien Entity needed Reed's mind as a guide
to re-create the Omniverse from nothingness.
the Alien Entity w/Reed's mind, re-create all of Marvel.
the Alien Entity merged witht eh Future too, not just the Past & Present.

Fin.

AE is an uber "god" now,
that embodies all of Marvel.


Right. But you agree that prior to fusing with the Omniverse AE displayed no real power.

The argument is that you put the Entity at the top of the hierarchy by claiming that he created the omniverse, when in fact all he did was travel back in time in order to find out how reality came to be only to find his question triggered reality. This was depicted by the spark coming from him, why?

Because the question did and it was from that question that the spark came from.

The Entity has done nothing via his own power for it to be placed at the top of the hierarchy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said that .... soooo I guess your spam was in vain.

In the end,

to re-create the Omniverse from nothingness,
the Alien Entity w/Reed's mind, re-create all of Marvel,
the Alien Entity merged with the Future too, not just the Past & Present.

Fin.

AE is an uber "god" now,
that embodies all of Marvel.

What is all of this omniverse talk?

616 is the only relevant dimension to this story.

Yes, 616 is the prime universe however by creating 616 you aren't directly responsible for creating all alternate/parallel realities. That happens through vibrational differences between atoms, or time alteration etc.

If the creation of 616 resulted directly in the creation of the entire omniverse at once then all universes would be the same age and you wouldnt have "baby universes" as featured in Ultimate Fantastic 4, universes which haven't gone through their Big Bang.

Also could you please show me the part which states or depicts that the Entity remained one with Eternity because as far as i can see once the duo calmed the chaos down and restored balance they both became themselves again.

Where is it stated? 😕