Everything COSMIC in Marvel - the Hierarchy, Battles, Feats, Q & A , scans galore!

Originally posted by guy222
Mr. M, have u heard about the Null Life Bomb

The Null Life Bomb was somehow affiliated with the Stranger, but I'm sure on the details.

I know it was threatening the Universe.

(reference: Champions vol. 1, #12 - 13)

Originally posted by guy222
and Infinity Union

The Infinity Union is a device from the planet of the enigmatic alien Stranger, it was able to absorb the energy stores of the Atomic Compressor. The Atomic Compressor can negate all of Reality at a Universal scale.

Sounds impressive, but after Nebula harnessed it's energies, she was still defeated by the Stranger and the Avengers, I think it's more effective on it's own than if absorbed.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. M, this is the topic i'm having the debate about the Beyonder retcons. Can you read it and offer some advice or counters? I'm sure you know more about the Beyonder than me or the people in there.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,140373.40/topicseen.html

Seems to me, like your owning these cats fine.

They're just making empty claims.

Funny how some person there said that a difference is marked out between 616 and other BeyonderS in that arc, lol. That was straight up and down made up.

Then you have another funny guy saying that the First Retcon (Kosmos) is not a Retcon, that's senseless, then he states the Retcon took place in FF#319, which is true, but Kosmos is Not depicted in that issue so I didn't include it. I set up the Retcon list as the Beyonder completely changed.

This is why I put the First Retcon as FF Annual #27, because it illustrates a completely changed Beyonder, (now a Pocket Universe Warper) and it also depicts how his "Essence" can still bring devastation across the Multiverse.

The Second Retcon speaks for itself, as we both know Eternity himself stated that Beyonder was Dimension hoping which was causing adverse affects upon the Multiverse.

The Third Retcon, somewhere off-panel, between Mutant X (where the "Essence" of Beyonder pops back up and is controlled by the Goblin Force) and the Thanos series, he becomes the Maker, takes on Mortal Form, which is what made the Maker insane.

The Fourth is the Inhuman/Mutant yip yap.

Mr. M, doesn't it seem strange that the Infinity Being can be brought back with just one set of Infinity Gems? You would think that its powers were also depositted into the Gems of other universes.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. M, doesn't it seem strange that the Infinity Being can be brought back with just one set of Infinity Gems? You would think that its powers were also depositted into the Gems of other universes.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Alright, 18 more pages and we'll have a updated hierarchy!

🙂

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Oh yeah, I was considering the thing Unlimited Mike said.

That the Infinity Being created one Multiverse,

which TOAA later expanded-also dying by doing so.

This would put him/her bellow the Heart and the Living Tribunal.

We have 3 separate instances where the Infinity Being is stated to have created All the Realities.

The IB (IMO) was what TOAA is now with a twist.

The IB encompassed and was in control of all existence on every level, but was alone.

TOAA is in control of all existence on every level, and is not alone,

an Omniverse of creation he controls.

I can't conclusively say that TOAA encompasses Reality either, while the IB did.

In anycase,

"God" (the Artist) has always been and will always be above anyone in Marvel, Past or Present.

TOAA, maybe the equal to "God" ... if TOAA is, as I suspect, "the Writer".

But if TOAA is not "the Writer" and is an actual character instead that just happens to never be seen, like the True BeyonderS, then TOAA/THOTI would be one notch below "God" ... equal to the Infinity Being, below that the LT and below that the True BeyonderS (IMO)

The rest of the Hierarchy is still being defined.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. M, doesn't it seem strange that the Infinity Being can be brought back with just one set of Infinity Gems? You would think that its powers were also depositted into the Gems of other universes.

I've never seen Alternate Counter-parts to the Infinity Gems,
in other words, Gems in an Alternate Universe.

Only one set of Gems, the 616 Gems.

The only other set of relevant Gems we've seen are the one's from Two Diverged Universes, these are Realities that only exist because they are exact copies of 616, somewhere along the lines in the Timestream a divergence takes place because of a change in History that Alters what actually happened in the original event within the 616 Reality.

This is why we saw the Gems again assembled after the Tibunal's second restriction on the IG, because it took place in Two Realities that were in a perpetual Time loop awaiting they're moment to exist, otherwise they're just "Mirrors" of 616 with no identity to Reality.

So when the Surfer succeeded snatching the IG from Thanos' hand, that Universe was instantly created, as it Diverged into it's own Reality, because now the same exact events that took place in the IG series in the 616 Universe, will now change, because Surfer now has the same exact IG from the 616 Reality, but since this never happened in the actual 616 Reality, this New story takes on a life of it's own, it becomes a separate Universe, a different IG, with it's own History now.

The Real 616 Gems were united again, even after the Tribunal's ruling, but by a creature (Rune) that originated from outside the Prime Multiverse (Ultraverse at the time) this may have something to do with the reason, the LT alluded to this idea in that arc.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nemesis [the second version of the IB], was pwned by the Gems themselves, and never realized their full power.

This is a far cry from the original IB, whom had the power contained within each Gem as part of his being, and whom had truly infinite power.

👆

And was still able to obliterate Two Universes,

create countless Realities (only 4 Gems) and threaten ALL Realities.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Rune froze the 616 Timestream with just the Reality Gem.

Actually, this was the Time Gem.

Originally posted by Mr Master
🙂

We have 3 separate instances where the Infinity Being is stated to have created All the Realities.

The IB (IMO) was what TOAA is now with a twist.

The IB encompassed and was in control of all existence on every level, but was alone.

TOAA is in control of all existence on every level, and is not alone,

an Omniverse of creation he controls.

I can't conclusively say that TOAA encompasses Reality either, while the IB did.

In anycase,

"God" (the Artist) has always been and will always be above anyone in Marvel, Past or Present.

TOAA, maybe the equal to "God" ... if TOAA is, as I suspect, "the Writer".

But if TOAA is not "the Writer" and is an actual character instead that just happens to never be seen, like the True BeyonderS, then TOAA/THOTI would be one notch below "God" ... equal to the Infinity Being, below that the LT and below that the True BeyonderS (IMO)

The rest of the Hierarchy is still being defined.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But wasent Mavel a Multiverse in the begining, which TOAA expanded?

It was a Universe first,

then it expanded into a Multiverse,

then the Beyond Realm came, then the New Universe, then the Omniverse.

We can guess it was TOAA that was responsible for this expansion, but it's a logical guess to also say the Universe expanded on it's own, is that not the law of the Universe? That it consistantly proceeds to ever grow in a contant natural expansion?

Don't get me wrong,

imo, TOAA is the Supreme Being before, now and forever of this Omniverse, but the Infinity Being was the Supreme Being of the previous Universe, and it's power created the Realities of the Omniverse where TOAA is Supreme.

The exact relationship between these two is unknown to me,

but if I had to guess,

It's just one "God" or Supreme Being passing the torch to next "God" Supreme Being, perhaps inadvertantly or perhaps wittingly, perhaps both. After all, the IB was savvy enough to induce the 7 Gems with much of it's original power, to be carried on into this New creation (the current Omniverse)

Who knows.

Well the way I think of it... TOAA reprezents the Marvel Company, rather then anything tangible to the Omniverse. Based on this idea, he would by default be greater then IB, which would just be a creation.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It was a Universe first,

then it expanded into a Multiverse,

then the Beyond Realm came, then the New Universe, then the Omniverse.

We can guess it was TOAA that was responsible for this expansion, but it's a logical guess to also say the Universe expanded on it's own, is that not the law of the Universe? That it consistantly proceeds to ever grow in a contant natural expansion?

Don't get me wrong,

imo, TOAA is the Supreme Being before, now and forever of this Omniverse, but the Infinity Being was the Supreme Being of the previous Universe, and it's power created the Realities of the Omniverse where TOAA is Supreme.

The exact relationship between these two is unknown to me,

but if I had to guess,

It's just one "God" or Supreme Being passing the torch to next "God" Supreme Being, perhaps inadvertantly or perhaps wittingly, perhaps both. After all, the IB was savvy enough to induce the 7 Gems with much of it's original power, to be carried on into this New creation (the current Omniverse)

Who knows.

I would set the Infinity being with the true Beyonders in the hierarchy, beneath the Living Tribunal.

Mr. Master, was it said anywhere that the Black Celestial was amping Galactus' power?

I'm arguing with a guy about whether Galactus or the Celestials are more powerful. His points are:

-Mephisto stalemated Galactus. He's nothing to the Celestials.
-Agomotto, whom Galactus fought, would be a good fight with odin who was annihilated by the Celestials.
-the High Evolutionary gave Big G a fight but the Celestials owned him.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
was it said anywhere that the Black Celestial was amping Galactus' power?

Other then that, it was all Galactus.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. Master, was it said anywhere that the Black Celestial was amping Galactus' power?

I'm arguing with a guy about whether Galactus or the Celestials are more powerful. His points are:

-Mephisto stalemated Galactus. He's nothing to the Celestials.
-Agomotto, whom Galactus fought, would be a good fight with odin who was annihilated by the Celestials.
-the High Evolutionary gave Big G a fight but the Celestials owned him.

Give me a link to that argument and I will be happy to help you blow him to hell for that stupid assesment.

It's not on here. It's on CBR, if you know where that is.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=4950640#post4950640

So I'm flipping through some old "Damage Control" issues, and I come to the page where all the heroes have assembled to fight Edifice Rex:

Then I start looking at it closer, and check out who I found in the upper right corner, [I circled him in red]:

It's friggin Richie Rich lol.

Jesus that is really sad looking at... I presume you are anti-existance, and he (Pike) got a couple of things wrong...

1. The one that are speculating the other parts of the celestials origin is kubik and kosmos... how do you believe most kubik ore Eternity???
2. It wasn't just odin in that armor it was all the asgardiens with the exception of thor.
3. The celestial that toke control over Galactus got eaten himself (I believe it was the Tiamut)
4. In the earth X series we see galactus with two eyeblast destroying two celestials and if you go a couple of pages back you would see Mr Master explaining why it can be used as a argument 😄
5. If he comes up with that with galactus being afraid of Tiamut flat him on the wall Galactus has faced far more serious thread then a celestial and still wasn't afraid of them.
6. Him using the high evolutionary is quiet funny, because Galactus didn't even want to fight him hence he teleported him to the negative zone.
7. The celestials have yet to preform a feat like teleporting a entire Galaxy across space and time. it was shown in Rom the Space Knight vol. 1, #27 also Galactus resurrected Zenn-la that had been comsumed by the other and Galactus just recreated that world and the watchers (nore the CELESTIALS) found out about it happend in Silver Surfer vol. 3, #130
8. Also some feats to make a assumption: BRB come flying in at Galactus and hits him in that issue BRB has flown through planets and destroyed them with a hammer hit, he combines them and leaves a crack in his armor. In contrast Thor hitting Exitar maked a hull in his armor, difference.
9. Galactus has vaporized a watcher in annihilation #6 may I remind you that it took the celestials eons to build up that energy needed and galactus with a snap of his fingers destroyed on...

Now read in through take what you can use (if any) and grind the fool.

One more, the celestials draw there energy from hyperspace, what happen to the last person (cough cough Hyperstorm cough cough) who used those energies in a fight vs Galactus he got used as a powerplant.

sorry not two pages back more like 5 pages back 😮 here it is
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/425758_77-everything-cosmic-in-marvel-the-hierarchy-battles-feats-q-a-scans-galore