Originally posted by Galan007
What feats does Galactus /w/ UN have?
He's only erased a Universe,
but I'm basing it on Reed's feat.
I think we can agree, Galactus can do the same and I'm assuming better.
But for lack of evidence we'll leave it a a Multiversal feat.
Originally posted by Galan007
And ER should get some brownie points for having enough power to reverse the IB's infinite Universe, [the Omniverse], back into it's cosmic egg.
Absolutely.
Originally posted by Mr MasterCool. 👆
He's only erased a Universe,but I'm basing it on Reed's feat.
I think we can agree, Galactus can do the same and I'm assuming better.
But for lack of evidence we'll leave it a a Multiversal feat.
Are you just going to rank the artifacts themselves.
It seems easier then ranking the person whom has the best feat with said artifact(s).
srug
Originally posted by Mr MasterBall park,
Absolutely.
Where do you think ER sits?
Originally posted by King Kandy
1. LT. To me, this kind of goes without saying.2. Infinity Being. I hate this character with a passion, but I just have to say that it IS powerful.
IMO, (out of the cats you mentioned)
The Infinity Being at the very least equals TOAA.
So:
1. TOOA/Infinity Being
2. LT (LT)
3. BeyonderS (a fraction of their power erased and recreated the Omniverse)
4. This is a Shared spot:
Jamie Braddock (Warped a Nexus of Multiversal Realities (WHR)
creates Universes just to play with,
and either resurrected Jaspers or merged him with Fury)
According to his Bio, he's manipulating events across the Omniverse.
Jaspers 616 (more powerful than Merlyn) or, merged with Fury, (assuming he has Fury's power) which makes him even more unstoppable.
5. This is a Shared spot:
Edifice Rex (can return the Omniverse to its Cosmic Egg)
Havok (embodies the connection of the Omniverse)
Merlyn (fused the Omniverse into tiny Crystals)
Captain B w/Sword & Amulet:
(according to Roma is the Hand of God and can sunder the Omniverse)
IG (4 Gems nearly destroyed "All Realities"😉 Omniverse?
6. HOM Wanda (Remade the 616 Universe,
and unconsciously was collapsing the Omniverse. (with HER Power)
Originally posted by King Kandy
HOM Wanda. She's so low, because from the debates I've seen I'm convinced that the Chaos Wave was just a side effect.
I've debated Wanda thoroughly and I'm not only convinced but I KNOW,
the Chaos Wave was a direct application of Wanda's Power.
Did she know what she was doing?
No.
Did she do it though?
Yes.
With Her Power or a side-effect of her power?
Beyond a reasonable doubt, it was Wanda who generated and fueled the Chaos Wave and its momentum.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Edifice Rex. I don't see anything that puts him above Universal level.
He was going to return Reality to it's Cosmic Egg before the Big Bang.
Only One Cosmic Egg ... the One that spawned the Omniverse that's still expanding.
Universes are still being spread by Big Bangs, but Universes are no longer within any Egg, Universes are already in place deep in the "Multiversal stack" awaiting to be born from formless gases and residue energies in a VAST area of Space in the Multiverse.
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. 👆Are you just going to rank the artifacts themselves.
It seems easier then ranking the person whom has the best feat with said artifact(s).
Good idea.
Originally posted by Galan007
Ball park,Where do you think ER sits?
With the other Omniversal destroyers.
I placed Jaspers above them,
based on Merlyn admitting Jaspers was more powerful than him.
Apparently when it comes to Jaspers grand feats are not everything.
Merlyn with all his Omniversal power was not enough.
Originally posted by Mr MasterSo possibly a shared position in the top 5-10?
Good idea.With the other Omniversal destroyers.
I placed Jaspers above them,
based on Merlyn admitting Jaspers was more powerful than him.Apparently when it comes to Jaspers grand feats are not everything.
Merlyn with all his Omniversal power was not enough.
That's excellent. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
So possibly a shared position in the top 5-10?That's excellent. 👆
Yea,
I mean I think we have the top established.
TOAA is a given.
I like the idea of the Infinity Being being his equal but I'll settle if we decide to put him right beneath TOAA, I don't think LT should be equal or above the IB.
The BeyonderS seem like the logical choice for the next spot.
(based on the capabilities of a fraction of their power (CCU)
Then come the Omniversal scale cats.
Wanda is not an Omniversal power imo.
She's a Universal power on panel but,
she can collapse the Omniverse by exercising her power at a Global scal.
WHen she first Warped Reality it was on a global scale, but it soon spread onto the rest of the 616 Universe, the next time Wanda remade Reality it was on a Universal scale as we know.
But just imagine her power,
as it was unwittingly pushed by her through the Rift, it was collapsing Universe after Universe,
no doubt, the Omniverse would have fallen, Countless UniverseS already had.
But the bottom line is it seems her power can be appplied by her directly at the Universal level, but it can inadvertantly affect the Omniverse, kill the Omniverse.
I rank LT above the Beyonders because he says he "Permited" their experiments. Meaning, he could have stopped them if he wanted to.
I DEFINATLY don't want to put IB next to TOAA... Because based on the Jack Kirby appearence, TOAA is the writers/Artists/Editors and as of such is above any character who is actualy IN comics.
Are we featuring the Pre-Retcon Brothers? If so, I'd put them as equals to IB.
I think Wanda should be counted as Universal instead of Omniversal (Even though she basically only did Global stuff), because in KMC Forum rules, she'd lose to any of her Compatriates... The Chaos wave isn't something she can conjour up at will, regardless of whether or not it's a side effect. It's not part of her powerset.
And I think THOTU should be = to IB, with TOAA above both of them.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I rank LT above the Beyonders because he says he "Permited" their experiments. Meaning, he could have stopped them if he wanted to.
I agree.
I never ranked the LT below the BeyonderS btw.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I DEFINATLY don't want to put IB next to TOAA... Because based on the Jack Kirby appearence, TOAA is the writers/Artists/Editors and as of such is above any character who is actualy IN comics.
You have a good point.
I agree.
1. TOAA
2. IB
3. LT
4. Beyonders
Originally posted by King Kandy
Are we featuring the Pre-Retcon Brothers? If so, I'd put them as equals to IB.
Pre-retcon Brothers are inconsequential.
Their existence did not affect Continuity in any way.
Post-retcon Brothers will be included.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think Wanda should be counted as Universal instead of Omniversal (Even though she basically only did Global stuff), because in KMC Forum rules, she'd lose to any of her Compatriates... The Chaos wave isn't something she can conjour up at will, regardless of whether or not it's a side effect. It's not part of her powerset.
I disagree, but not with everything.
Fisrt off Wanda did Universal stuff while aware of what she was doing.
I already said she's a Universal power BUT,
she can still collapse the Omniverse nevertheless.
The Chaos Wave isn't a separate manifestation, the Chaos Wave is a name given to Wanda's power by Roma, when Wanda's Power was collapsing the Omniverse by shattering the Walls between UniverseS.
Roma called it a "Temporal tsunami" ... which is a "Wave", but she also added Chaos,
interesting isn't it, Wanda's Power is CHAOS MAGIC. 🙂
Originally posted by King Kandy
And I think THOTU should be = to IB, with TOAA above both of them.
Sounds good.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I DEFINATLY don't want to put IB next to TOAA... Because based on the Jack Kirby appearence, TOAA is the writers/Artists/Editors and as of such is above any character who is actualy IN comics.
I think Wanda should be counted as Universal instead of Omniversal (Even though she basically only did Global stuff), because in KMC Forum rules, she'd lose to any of her Compatriates... The Chaos wave isn't something she can conjour up at will, regardless of whether or not it's a side effect. It's not part of her powerset.
And I think THOTU should be = to IB, with TOAA above both of them.
Oh I thought I should add, not so long ago I bought a X-men pocket featuring the Phioenix (it's in black and white and in Swedish)
Where Phoenix or rather the "Black Queen" made Mastermind one with the universe--ultimately causing him to faint, and it was also stated that dark Phoenix was a threat to the entire universe.
It's from uncanny X-men, first appearence of Dark Phoenix--or perhaps the 2nd considering that the Phoenix was before that--in not sure, but probably the first.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThere's an easy way to simplify this, imo...
Wanda is not an Omniversal power imo.She's a Universal power on panel but,
she can collapse the Omniverse by exercising her power at a Global scal.
WHen she first Warped Reality it was on a global scale, but it soon spread onto the rest of the 616 Universe, the next time Wanda remade Reality it was on a Universal scale as we know.
But just imagine her power,
as it was unwittingly pushed by her through the Rift, it was collapsing Universe after Universe,
no doubt, the Omniverse would have fallen, Countless UniverseS already had.
But the bottom line is it seems her power can be appplied by her directly at the Universal level, but it can inadvertantly affect the Omniverse, kill the Omniverse.
Rank the Chaos Wave completely separate from Wanda herself?
ie. The Chaos Wave itself will be ranked in the Omniversal catagory, but Wanda herself will be in the Universal catagory, but still make it known that Wanda was responsible for initially releasing the Wave.
srug
Originally posted by Galan007
There's an easy way to simplify this, imo...Rank the Chaos Wave completely separate from Wanda herself?
ie. The Chaos Wave itself will be ranked in the Omniversal catagory, but Wanda herself will be in the Universal catagory, but still make it known that Wanda was responsible for initially releasing the Wave.
srug
Is there ANY reason to include the Pre-Retcon Beyonder? His feats aren't canon, he doesn't even really exist anymore. Some with Molecule Man.
Originally posted by Mr MasterEternity was sentient before the Big Bang even completed its task
(Eternity spoke to Galan from within the fires of the Big Bang)
Not true at all. The sentience of the previous universe spoke to Galan. It was a previous Eternity, NOT the 616 Eternity we know. The previous Eternity spoke to Galan within the Big Crunch as the old universe Galan came from was ending.
That Eternity died when the process had finished and then a new Eternity was born when the Crunch eventually exploded into the Big Bang. At that point the Eternity we know was created along with Death and Galactus who had been gestated within those energies of creation.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Next came the Concepts (Chaos/Order, Phoenix, Love/Hate, ect)Galactus was in development before any of these because Galan merged with Eternity,
within the actual Big Bang,but Galactus became aware after the Big Bang.
Always trying to place Phoenix in the same boat as the abstracts. 😉
The Phoenix Force as i've shown and as stated on panel is the Big Bang. The sentience of the Phoenix wasnt reborn until after the Big Bang event. Prior to that at the end of the previous cycle it had reverted back to its natural state, which was just the non sentient energies of creation.
The abstracts are derivatives of the Big Bang.
As for the True Beyonders, they may have made the Cosmic Cubes but that doesnt necessarily make them more powerful than them. We dont know the nature behind the process. For example a scientist and engineers can make weapons of mass destruction and warplanes, but do those same humans inherently possess as much destructive power as their creations? 😉
Its all up in the air, theyre unproven.
Wandas global changes had side effects which ranged beyond the global in scale, however thats irrelevant. If i created an avalanche as a side effect of a shout would i be a village destroyer? Was the destruction caused powered and directed by me or did my initial reaction just lead to it and then things spiralled out of control? 😕
As far as we've seen on panel, Wanda is a global scale reality warper.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThat's why I proposed this:
Wandas global changes had side effects which ranged beyond the global in scale, however thats irrelevant. If i created an avalanche as a side effect of a shout would i be a village destroyer? Was the destruction caused powered and directed by me or did my initial reaction just lead to it and then things spiralled out of control? 😕As far as we've seen on panel, Wanda is a global scale reality warper.
Originally posted by Galan007
There's an easy way to simplify this, imo...Rank the Chaos Wave completely separate from Wanda herself?
ie. The Chaos Wave itself will be ranked in the Omniversal catagory, but Wanda herself will be in the Universal catagory, but still make it known that Wanda was responsible for initially releasing the Wave.
srug
Originally posted by Mr MasterFisrt off Wanda did Universal stuff while aware of what she was doing.
I already said she's a Universal power BUT,
she can still collapse the Omniverse nevertheless.
The Chaos Wave isn't a separate manifestation, the Chaos Wave is a name given to Wanda's power by Roma, when Wanda's Power was collapsing the Omniverse by shattering the Walls between UniverseS.
Roma called it a "Temporal tsunami" ... which is a "Wave", but she also added Chaos,
interesting isn't it, Wanda's Power is CHAOS MAGIC. 🙂
Sounds good.
Roma said the chaos wave was the result of a global alteration, therefore Wanda bringing about the HOM reality on earth proved a catalyst for the Chaos Wave. Its as simple as that.
The wave is called Wandas warp because she is responsible for it. However its not a part of her power set, it was never ever mentioned in the main HOM title and nowhere on panel was she stated or shown to be maintaining/directing it.
Lastly, can you please show us this universal change to the entire 616 universe?
As summarized in all intro pages dealing with the Chaos Wave, Wandas first change was to create the HOM reality on Earth, her second change was the "No More Mutants" one. Can you please show us the on panel depiction of the 616 universe in its entirety being warped to Wandas will and what was said to have happened as a result?
No argument. Just post the scan.
Originally posted by Galan007
That's why I proposed this:
Its a very good idea to rank them separately 👆
The Chaos Wave is a universal destroyer, if allowed to be. However it can easily be stopped by no great exertion if its existence is known about, by merely cutting it off from its source.
For that reason, it shouldnt be top tier imo.
Jubilee if allowed to run about blowing up stuff unchecked could eventually blow up the entire surface of the planet, does that mean she should be classed alongside the global scale powers? ❌
Rank shouldnt be based on potential, but what is achieved on panel and how easily said power is stopped when operating at their highest shown capacity.
