The Midnighter vs. Wolverine

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I....really am at a lost for words right now. Something in me wants to debate and contiune on, yet this little voice in my head is telling me its pointless.

Intresting.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine takes on an entire society of living machines then proceeds to destroy the core of their society; He loses his arm as an energy blast totally incinerates it. But, in an amazing display of self control and pain tolerance, he still uses it as a weapon to put into the core. He suceeds, but the resulting explosion has the explosive force of a virtual nuke. Wolverine walks out of it:
1. http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9576/sniktfight29cjf8.jpg
2. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3694/sniktfight29dpq8.jpg
3. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1120/sniktfight29eci9.jpg
4. http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4923/sniktfight29frk1.jpg
5. http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9458/sniktfight29ggl5.jpg
6. http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8550/sniktfight29hkp1.jpg

Wolverine having been once again incinerated into an Adamantium skeleton (once his healing factor starts up) heals nearly completely by the time Nitro has finished a short phone conversation.
1. http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5435/skeleto4hr6.jpg
2. http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9862/skeleto5ny4.jpg
3. http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5373/skeleto6xb0.jpg
4. http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/4930/skeleto7or2.jpg
5. http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6636/skeleto8fu0.jpg

Wolverine and Sabretooth having already had a knock down drag out brawl start going at it again in the blackbird. They crash, the thing explodes, and they come out the inferno conscious and continuing their ferocious fight; Wolverine's practically a walking skeleton but he's still whippin ass:
1. http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1491/sabesinfernofight3sb1.jpg
2. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1875/sabesinfernofight4ga6.jpg
3. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6366/sabesinfernofight5kl9.jpg
4. http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1259/sabesinfernofight6qy3.jpg
5. http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8025/sabesinfernofight6bxw5.jpg
6. http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/627/sabesinfernofight8qr3.jpg
7. http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1491/sabesinfernofight9no1.jpg

[B]RANDOM BULLET FEATS:

(CLASSIC)
Wolverine takes “a hail of bullets” from Hydra agents well before his weapon X days and shows no ill effects:
1. http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3/machinegufirehc0.jpg
2. http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3803/machinegufire2ul4.jpg

Wolverine takes multiple bullets while just walking forward into them unflinching:
1. http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3325/bullets9mg0.jpg

Wolverine has a badass moment taking bullets without flinching at them:
1. http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1600/badassyj7.jpg
2. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7431/badass2ry8.jpg
3. http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8061/badass3sc4.jpg

Wolverine walks forward noncholantly while an attacker shoots directly at him:
1. http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/1987/gunfirela0.jpg

Wolverine walks head on while shot in the head again:
1. http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1066/bulletstotheheadep0.jpg

Wolverine takes machine gun fire, and then immediately starts tearing up Vamps left and right:
1. http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1482/vampgunswr8.jpg
2. http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7650/vampguns2mu3.jpg

Wolverine has to fight a whole town full of werewolves for some undeterminable amount of time: Moonhunter comes out and it takes 4 double berral shot gun blasts at point blank to put Wolverine down:
1. http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3613/wolviebuckshotlc2.jpg
2. http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8375/wolviebuckshot2pf7.jpg

(BONE CLAW)
N/A

(MODERN)
Wolverine is shot in the skull, he just gets pissed off:
1. http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3176/bullets7ev5.jpg

Wolverine nonchalantly takes bullets with a smile:
1. http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4246/bulletsej3.jpg

Wolverine runs headlong into automatic gunfire taking bullets all over, but he isn't discouraged in the least:
1. http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1427/takesbulletslikenothingkc8.jpg
2. http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7422/takesbulletslikenothingxd5.jpg
3. http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/772/takesbulletslikenothingpx8.jpg

Wolverine jumps head on into automatic gunfire unyeilding:
1. http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/244/nabullettakefz6.jpg

(*repeat*)Wolverine momentarily goes down to hundreds of bullets. After he gets angry, his adrenaline kicks up, and his HF speeds up with the adrenaline. The result? He's up and dicing away like nothin:
1. http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8659/hailzv9.jpg
2. http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9150/hail2qt2.jpg
3. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9175/hail3sf2.jpg
4. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5262/hail4aw9.jpg

Wolverine gets shot repeatidly by Crossbones; He shruggs it off and is immediately in CB's face:
1. http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6441/crossboneslz7.jpg
2. http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8563/crossbones3ss6.jpg

*Attention there are many incredible displays of Wolverine's healing factor throughout the various and many fights of his career; most noteable incidents to check in the respect thread are either in brick fights, almost every thug fight and some of the group fights.* [/B]

Especially the "modern" section... in favor of three feats?

No, I don't think so.

Cresh, I am not getting pulled into another debate with you. You do what you want.

Apolloknight, (and everybody else for that matter), I've debated the bullets to the brain on Wolverine for months now on KMC. Three different writers, none of them Ennis. Christoper Yost, Daniel Way and Jason Aaron respectively. Three different storylines. Three different comics; New X-Men, Wolverine: Origins and Wolverine. Not a single scan has been shown by any of Wolvie's most ardent supporters that Wolverine has his brain completely encased in bone as a normal human's. The scans are not a slight minority in the face of a vast majority. I've never seen Wolverine shot in the eye, through the nasal cavity or through the throat cavity before and his skull casing stopped the bullet. Not a single scan. Nothing.

Wolverine's been shot in the forehead a lot. But these three scans are the only times I've seen people aim a bullet to penetrate into his brain through some cavity. It is the majority, indeed it is EVERYTIME, someone's tried to put a bullet through a cavity into Wolverine's brain. It's 100% so far from what I've seen. If there are scans directly contradicting it, I'm more than eager to see them. Until then, basic human anatomy fails when dealing with a feral mutant with an already odd bone structure who has had this happen three times.

Not only that, there is other evidence that Wolverine has these holes in his skull cavity to allow access. Against X-23, when she is sitting on top of Wolverine's chest at the end of the fight and about to pop a claw into his brain and her own, Wolverine concedes that she could do it. Indeed, he talks her out of it. And then there's this lil scan of an arrow going through Wolverine's ear cavity. Yeah, that's adamantium Wolverine. Not boneclaw. And it's another writer, Peter Milligan. Not Ennis. Here's the scan, and Wolverine himself explaining the damage to his brain. Wolverine fans need to deal with it:

Logan 6.5 or 7/10. It would be a good match.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cresh, I am not getting pulled into another debate with you. You do what you want.
I've debated the bullets to the brain on Wolverine for months now on KMC. Three different writers, none of them Ennis. Three different storylines. Three different comics. Not a single scan has been shown by any of Wolvie's most ardent supporters that Wolverine has his brain completely encased in bone as a normal human's. The scans are not a slight minority in the face of a vast majority. I've never seen Wolverine shot in the eye, through the nasal cavity or through the throat cavity before and his skull casing stopped the bullet. Not a single scan. Nothing.

Wolverine's been shot in the forehead a lot. But these three scans are the only times I've seen people aim a bullet to penetrate into his brain through some cavity. It is the majority, indeed it is EVERYTIME, someone's tried to put a bullet through a cavity into Wolverine's brain. It's 100% so far from what I've seen. If there are scans directly contradicting it, I'm more than eager to see them. Until then, basic human anatomy fails when dealing with a feral mutant with an already odd bone structure who has had this happen three times.

Not only that, there is other evidence that Wolverine has these holes in his skull cavity to allow access. Against X-23, when she is sitting on top of Wolverine's chest at the end of the fight and about to pop a claw into his brain and her own, Wolverine concedes that she could do it. Indeed, he talks her out of it. And then there's this lil scan of an arrow going through Wolverine's ear cavity. Yeah, that's adamantium Wolverine. Not boneclaw. And it's another writer, Peter Milligan. Not Ennis. Here's the scan, and Wolverine himself explaining the damage to his brain. Wolverine fans need to deal with it:

Oh and ennis had wolverine take a shotgun blast to the face and he was just fine. I noticed that was missing form my scans so ... yeah. youre three is in the minoirty.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Reported for trolling.

Oh and ennis had wolverine take a shotgun blast to the face and he was just fine. I noticed that was missing form my scans so ... yeah. youre three is in the minoirty.

So are you also dismissing everything in the last paragraph, like about how X-23 was on his chest and the arrow and what not?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
So are you also dismissing everything in the last paragraph, like about how X-23 was on his chest and the arrow and what not?

I'm not going to bother too much with his posts if he ignores mine.

Six modern scans plus all the ones from the past that agree with them is a hell of a lot more than "three".

Especially the crossbow piercing adamantium... Seriously, that's just stupid and contradicts not only wolverine, but all the adamantium in marvel 616... and I don't think I have to post every time adamantium resists bullets for that ONE scan to be considered PIS.

Seriously. I warned him, he trolls he gets reported.

Wolverine admitting to someone being able to do something is about the same as hyperbole.

He told Spiderman that Spiderman could break his neck. That was an outright lie because of all the times we've seen his skeleton hold together in 616, with nothing to contradict it.

OneDumbG0 is the kind guy to grasp at every little straw he can to discredit and downplay Wolverine.. he's no better than some of the other trolls around here.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I don't hate the character. Its just something is funny to me. 3 times in the past year? Shit changes over time; if it happened once, then ok, it could be PIS, but three? in the past year no less?

Its called trends, and one is happening with that feat.

There comes a point when you have to start accepting trends for what they are, dismiss it with past events all you want, but isn't that what a "new" trend is supposed to do? Change something up, somehow someway?

I think marvel is trying to tell us "Hey, a bullet to the brain will now down logan!"

Dismiss each individual feat if you must, but you can't dismiss the trend of whats been shown.

These are the only times someone has tried to penetrate Wolverine's brain through a skull cavity with precise aim. Whether it's eye, nasal, throat or ear cavity. But just to address one semi-relevant objection, since I can't ignore quoted remarks... Wolverine taking a shot-gun blast to the face. Punisher wasn't carefully aiming. Buckshot did not penetrate through his eyeballs as they were undamaged. How can this be? I'll go for this No-Prize:

I don't have the scan in front of me, but there are two relevant possibilities that would explain why the buckshot did not penetrate his eyeballs and that has to do with a wide dispersal pattern: 1) Some modified and sawn off shotguns have such a wide dispersal pattern, that they are ineffective at only a few feet. If Wolverine's face was only a few feet away, it makes sense that any straight line trajectory of any buckshot would have failed by the time it reached Wolverine. His eyelids were torn off with the rest of his face and no buckshot actually made a straight beeline through his eyes. Or 2) If Wolverine's face was right next to or only inches away from the shotgun muzzle, and it was aimed at anywhere other than directly at his eyes or up his nose, then the buckshot would have been immediately splayed completely away from Wolverine's eye cavities. Why? Because the buckshot would be emitted from half-inch diameter muzzle and since there is no distance, they would instantly ricochet back or splash outwards. They would instantly do this because they would meet adamantium laced cheekbones or nose ridge. That has enough force to rip off his face's flesh and not damage his eyes and thus not penetrate into his brain. If someone has the scan, then we can apply the appropriate theory.

OR, I don't even have to explain the feat completely and neatly since the hefty majority of clear and more recent on-panel evidence supports my proposition anyway. Because at best, it's 4-1 in my favor. You guys can judge for yourselves.

If anybody else would like to show me a scan of someone purposefully trying to shoot a bullet through his eye into his brain and it being blocked by bone first, by all means. That goes for the nasal, throat and ear cavities too. Heck, I'll even entertain circumstantial conversations from someone like Professor X or Wolverine himself saying, you can't ever get to my brain because yadda, yadda. But I don't think you'll find one. I've read lots of comics before and the entire Wolverine Respect thread. Fact is, Midnighter could use his tooth bullet and arguably has four different cavities to aim at for it to penetrate his brain from on-panel evidence. And there is no clear contradictory evidence to refute that. It'd be cheap, but it's still a win and not above Midnighter's personal brand of ruthlessness.

EDIT: And while I can't really expect any of you to do this: But I would consider it a personal favor if the rest of you guys could stop quoting Creshock's personal attacks/diatribes directed towards me. Especially if you're directly responding to the post right above your own. The ignore function is circumvented that way and I don't care to see his posts that are personally directed towards me. But I won't take offense if you don't. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Reported for trolling.

Oh and ennis had wolverine take a shotgun blast to the face and he was just fine. I noticed that was missing form my scans so ... yeah. youre three is in the minoirty.

Right so now hes trolling.........

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Midnighter's speed and battle reflexes feats outdo Wolverine's.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Wolverine has never fought someone who could calculate what would happen with as much proficiency as Midnighter has. Many times that Wolverine has fought a person who legitimately could predict what Wolverine was going to do, Wolverine's been embarassed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
1) He could stick his staff through his throat and trap him against a wall for a tko.
2) He could spit out his tooth and have it enter Wolverine's brain through either his eye socket, throat cavity or nasal cavity for a ko.
3) He could open wounds up with his staff and shuriken and place dirt into the wounds and prevent them from healing for a tko.

And the third suggestion, don't think that really fits either, X-23 clearly has an intimate knowledge of how their HF works and premeditated that move. He may know about the HF but would he know dirt could hinder it like that? I have my doubts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Blanket statements get you nowhere. It'd make more sense if you said Midnighter could never physically put a foe like Apollo down for the count. And yet, we all know where that ends up.
He says he is no faster than Deadpool. He doesn't need to have burst speed. The skill is to simply predict where your opponent isn't going to be looking. And to manuever into that position and strike from there. In fact, when Deadpool pissed him off, Wade actually nailed him with a kick that dazed Daken. Fact is, Midnighter showed himself much more capable of burst speed and Daken's own explanation of his abilities run counter to what you wish them to be. Fact is, he straight up embarassed Wolverine.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Wolverine's healing factor feats are not PIS either. So what's the point of bringing them up? If Wolverine did get incinerated, for purposes of a KMC fight, he would be knocked out. So what relevance does your irate protestations about Wolverine's healing factor have?
He doesn't need to overload Wolverine's healing factor. I just listed three very easy ways that he could take Wolverine out without having to overload his healing factor. The thread did not limit Midnighter to wins only by overloading Wolverine's healing factor. I can understand why you'd want to narrow everyone's reasoning, but it fails.

Originally posted by jinzin
For instance?

Originally posted by jinzin
Like telepaths? That's a bit different, knowing exactly what Wolverine's going to do as he's prepping to do it.
Opponents that acutally use calculations though, Prime Sentinals and Danger being prime examples, haven't embarassed Logan. 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
I only really have a problem with Wolverine going down to things to the brain. I'd just like to raise the reasonable doubt that he was getting up immediately from that damage when Scaphunter shot him. Both the Deadpool and Mystique examples don't really apply as his HF was taxed in both instances. And in the Punisher one, Wolverine also got out rather immediately. So just sayin: it may not be the most effective tactic as you think.

Originally posted by jinzin
And the third suggestion, don't think that really fits either, X-23 clearly has an intimate knowledge of how their HF works and premeditated that move. He may know about the HF but would he know dirt could hinder it like that? I have my doubts.

Originally posted by jinzin
Well we really don't know HOW Daken's skill works quite yet. And his ability to beat his dad while impressive is less so considering Wolverine's CIS "He looks just like her" and the fact that he was still hurting a good deal from the Muramasa cut.

Well to be honest I don't think even us Wolverine fans have ever really condoned Wolverine healing from skeletons and recovering from ground zero nuke blasts. 😬

Personally, I've posited several reasons in the past why Wolverine can recover from that kind of stuff. Usually it has to do with his adamantium bones being porous and his bone marrow being extra rich in proteins and nutrients to help compensate for the massive amount of body mass. It's still on-panel.

It's not like its three through the eye. He has three ascans in total each one is a stupid feat on it s own, so yeah, three different pis examples.

We have storm absorbing the galatctic core, We have storm flying on solar winds, we have storm out in space without a space suit.

Just because she's done three different stupid things that all involved the cosmos does NOT make her a cosmic. Three seperate feats that were each PIS.

Just as here, Going through the eye, pis because of the bone behind the eye. Going through the ear, Pis because the hole is way to small.

Going through the Ear is NOT going through the eye. You still have ONE going through the eye feat. And ONE going through the ear feat. Both are stupid and neither IS the other.

Going through the "throat cavity" Stupid because there is no "torat cavity opening into the brain.

Three seperate feats each stupid. and neither is the same thing twice.

Wolverine 6/10

Battle combat I give the edge to Mids but Logan's claws make up for it.
Both have good healing factor but Logans is a little better IMO. Plus the fact that Mids doesn't have unbreakable bones and has a good healing ability Logan could have fun with it thats for sure.

Mids won't be an easy task guy can take everything but Logan can dish out everything too.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
😆
He can run 2k in 3 minutes, he is about 2-3x normal human in speed.

Was this from a actual book that Mids can run 2k in 3 minutes??
If you remember the issue title/number would appreciate.

Originally posted by Creshosk
A tooth isnot entering Wolverine's brain. the skull is like a bone vault. there are no large openings that arn't covered with bone.

OneDumbG0 put me on ignore so he can't receive this anatomy lesson.. but there are no large holes that aren't blocked by bone

Oh that hole in the bottom? that's where the spinal cord goes. Its blocked by the vertebrae of the spine:

So getting a tooth into the vault is impossible. as is even getting a bullet into the vault.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
question.....if there are no holes to the brain, doesnt that mean wolverine was put down by shots that didnt enter his brain?

Which of course

[i]Originally posted by Digimark007
The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.

[i]Originally posted by Digimark007
No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Makes it PIS.

wolverine 6.5/10

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which of course ignores wovverine's history. *points to the more than half a dozen taking bullets feats*

Which of course

Makes it PIS.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
anooother question (sorry) but if hes been getting taken down a lot of times like this recently doesnt it mean its not PIS (mystique shot him, scalp hunter shot him, and deadpool shot him just a few instances)

creshosk is applying real world science/anatomy to a comic, which he shouldnt

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
anooother question (sorry) but if hes been getting taken down a lot of times like this recently doesnt it mean its not PIS (mystique shot him, scalp hunter shot him, and deadpool shot him just a few instances)

The vast majority of his showing>>>>minority.

Hell the shot through the eye is pis. It not possiable and has also failed in the past.

as for the other instances there rather irrelevent to this fight. I mean Logan healing factor was taxed prior to the bullets to the head in both mystigue and DP fight. Hell Logan was trying to purposly loses to DP making the example utterly useless.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
anooother question (sorry) but if hes been getting taken down a lot of times like this recently doesnt it mean its not PIS (mystique shot him, scalp hunter shot him, and deadpool shot him just a few instances)

Plus you forget not ALL of the recent feats are him going down to bullets...

Wolverine is shot in the skull, he just gets pissed off:
1. http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3176/bullets7ev5.jpg

Wolverine nonchalantly takes bullets with a smile:
1. http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4246/bulletsej3.jpg

Wolverine runs headlong into automatic gunfire taking bullets all over, but he isn't discouraged in the least:
1. http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1427/takesbulletslikenothingkc8.jpg
2. http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7422/takesbulletslikenothingxd5.jpg
3. http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/772/takesbulletslikenothingpx8.jpg

Wolverine jumps head on into automatic gunfire unyeilding:
1. http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/244/nabullettakefz6.jpg

(*repeat*)Wolverine momentarily goes down to hundreds of bullets. After he gets angry, his adrenaline kicks up, and his HF speeds up with the adrenaline. The result? He's up and dicing away like nothin:
1. http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8659/hailzv9.jpg
2. http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9150/hail2qt2.jpg
3. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9175/hail3sf2.jpg
4. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5262/hail4aw9.jpg

Wolverine gets shot repeatidly by Crossbones; He shruggs it off and is immediately in CB's face:
1. http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6441/crossboneslz7.jpg
2. http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8563/crossbones3ss6.jpg