Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Either you're joking, or you're very very young 😉
Or maybe, like OneDumbG0, I simply have a firmer grasp of the English language than your average Phoenix fanboy.
Either way your comments are absurd. Marty MC Fly may have altered events through time travel, many beings have done and could do that.
Which is EXACTLY WHAT JEAN DID.
Jean/Marty removed the catalyst (Sublime/Sports Almanac) of a dystopian future (Earth-15104/King Biff), thus assuring that said dystopian future would never come to pass.
Phoenix telekinetically cut off the future.
That's adorable.
Originally posted by KK the GreatWhich is EXACTLY WHAT JEAN DID.
Jean/Marty removed the catalyst (Sublime/Sports Almanac) of a dystopian future (Earth-15104/King Biff), thus assuring that said dystopian future would never come to pass.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Read this bio again, carefully. Take note of the commas. They are important:As you can see, the act of telekinetically extracting Sublime's essence from Beast resulted in disinfecting the entire future reality. Nice try bro. In very much the same way, Legion ended up crystalizing the entire present by killing Xavier or Bishop uncrystallized it by saving Xavier. Never is there any mention of a separate feat that she must take to amputate the future. Which is all the more clear, because Jean and te PF talk to each other, confirming that the "surgery" and "disinfection" are complete once she extracts Sublime and drops him off. It's done, mate. The only thing she had to do afterwards, was prevent Earth-616 from going the route of Earth-15104, by nudging Cyclops. Nowhere is it stated or even even suggested through dialogue, art or secondary sources that she summons an entire universe atom by atom. That universe is as symbolic as the phoenix flaring up inside it.
You keep highlighting those scans as if their content somehow changes anything. I know the extraction of Sublime disinfected reality. I have stated that myself. I know that the act of altering Scotts reactions grew a new future. I have stated myself.
Jean states crystal clear that she amputated the future because it was too infested. Whether you believ eshe needed to do that or not, she did it. For all we know the writer just wanted to go all out and show how powerful she is, but she did it. The point is stated in one of your bios also. On panel and in a bio. You are in no position to present a contrary opinion as fact in light of that.
The very fact that its stated clearly on panel and yet only features in one of your bios illustrates my point clearly. Bios give summarys, not extensive breakdowns. They are guides to the comics, not substitutes. The point doesnt have to be in every bio for it to be the case. Phoenix states she amputated the future. One of your bios confirms it. Phoenix is told to treat the patient in the hospital, she goes in empty handed and then materializing in her hand alongside a reference to how "telekinetic control of all of those atoms isnt easy" is a universe.
After this issue Jeans bio is updated to say she can control a universes atoms telekinetically.
Simple.
Whether it was necessary, or whether it was the writer providing a fan service for us Phoenix lovers, its irrelevant. It happened. As illustrated on panel, as confimred by a bio.
That point is no longer debatable.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Complete excuses. The PF addresses Jean personally, and tells her how her feat of telekinesis isn't easy, even for a White Phoenix of the Crown. If Jean has no idea what's going on, why is the PF attributing the feat to her personally? It makes no sense when you force your interpretation past the dialogue. Even past that obvious error in logic, the PF tells her this in past tense referring back to a prior telekinetic feat. The universe hadn't even started manifesting itself in Jean's hands. Think about it.
Nope. It wasnt a past feat. It was a feat that was happening as the Consciousness was talking.
After the Consciousness makes its comments, the next panel shows a structure forming in Jeans hands, the last panel on that page its revealed its a universe.
Going by the comments with no supposition, what is fact is that a universe materialised in Jeans palm. What is fact is that as in the same scene the Consciousness talked of how controlling that amount of atoms isnt as easy as it looks.
What is fact is that before that scene Jean was told to treat the universes in the hospital and she went in there empty handed.
What is fact is that following this comics publication, a bio came out stating Jean can now manipulate a universes entire atomic structure.
Simple.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No kidding. But the PF doesn't applaud her for her efforts persoinally, when it does everything itself. You completely shot yourself in the foot and you have chased your own tail in circles. You haven't explained why she needed to summon the universe atom by atom in the first place. You've only offered a self-serving suggestion that this method was the only way to save Earth-616. We all know that her nudging Scott was what saved Earth-616, and that hardly requires her summoning a complete universe in her hands. The extraction of Sublime disinfected the entire future, as obviously stated by Jean and the PF itself when they confirm that the "surgery" and "disinfection" is complete right after she's got Sublime in her hands.
I havent shot myself in the foot at all. Ive just bothered to read the entire New X-men run and virtually every Phoenix related appearance on panel. I know the mythology. You on the other hand do not and yet you continue to arrogantly dictate whats right and whats wrong when your queries are explained within said mythology.
Jean and the Force are one as the Phoenix avatar. The nature of the avatar means they share a physical form and are tapped into each others Consciousness'. Separate and yet one at the same time.
The Force perfoms the feat through its Jean Phoenix host, whilst Jean questions what shes doing. It took her over and yet the feat was atributed to her because she is the Phoenix. Its the nature of a Phoenix host. An outside party never performed the feat for her.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're done. This myth has pretty much grown a life of it's own. But the self-serving logic doesn't stand to someone with fresh eyes. You assume your premises and try to smooth over contradictions in dialogue, past and present tense and ignore how the most simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And I can keep this up without having my position scrutinized for self-serving logic or gaps. You can't say the same.
Your interpretation is simpler in that it missess out feats and panels, acknowledging only that which coincides with your opinion o Phoenix.
The task of removing Sublime isnt the one which was referred to as not as easy as it looks. In between Jean extracting Sublime and that comment being made, Jean amputates a future telekinetically.
Im quite certain thats more difficult than removing bacteria from Sublimes body.
Your interpretation ignores the fact that a universes forms in Jeans hands, after she is told to treat the universe in the hospital and whilst the Consciousness refers to her telekinetic control of all of those atoms.
Your interpretation refuses to acknowledge the fact that Jean is now stated as being able to telekinetically manipulate a universes atoms.
Im quite sure the bio isnt referring to removing bacteria from Beast. 😬
Game over. 🙁
Originally posted by kevdude
I guess you didn't read the scans 😕 . The IG comes from the Big Bang/Phoenix Force right if something is directly coming into Jean (the Force) and the gems have only a limited amount of power within them the IG user will eventually lose, that and considering the human being is the Crown of Creation (with you know who at the very top, God)...
That's the same sort of ultimately meaningless semantics that WW fans are always using to argue why WW must be stronger than Captain Marvel.
I'm not really sold on this notion that the IG comes from the big bang, anyway. Numerous minis and events directly centered on the gems and all of the accounts therein are ignored because of one throw-away line in a yuk-yuk She-Hulk title?
Originally posted by id369Except that Sublime would still be a threat if she didn't remove him and therefore, it was just as important to remove Sublime as it was to inspire Scott to live to prevent the dystopian future. And Jean may not be time-traveling, to avert future events, but nudging Scott to love and live on = "controlling critical events through the manifested timeline." Characterizing it in an ambiguous manner to allow for over-exaggeration = no thanks. Nudging Scott to love and live is a feat on par with Marty inspiring his father to woo his mother. Except she could use her telepathy to do so and Marty had to do it the hard way.
Except Sublime isn’t the catalyst, its Scott. And Jean isn’t time traveling, to avert future events, but controlling critical events through the manifested timeline.
🙄
The important conclusion being, neither of those feats require telekinetically summoning an entire universe atom by atom.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You keep highlighting those scans as if their content somehow changes anything. I know the extraction of Sublime disinfected reality. I have stated that myself. I know that the act of altering Scotts reactions grew a new future. I have stated myself.Jean states crystal clear that she amputated the future because it was too infested. Whether you believ eshe needed to do that or not, she did it.
I realize that you're extraordinarily impressed by the phrase "amputated the future," but eventually you'll need to accept that it was nothing more than a purple prose description of what she accomplished by removing Sublime and guiding Scott's actions.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWHERE does this feat happen on-panel other than your imaginary world?
Your interpretation is simpler in that it missess out feats and panels, acknowledging only that which coincides with your opinion o Phoenix.The task of removing Sublime isnt the one which was referred to as not as easy as it looks. In between Jean extracting Sublime and that comment being made, Jean amputates a future telekinetically.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
My copy of New X-Men tells me that when she extracts Sublime... she disinfects the entire future. That's also what the handbook tells me. Nothing suggests she telekinetically cut the future AFTER telekinetically extracting Sublime. Only that her surgery and disinfection and thus amputation were complete once she extracted Sublime telekinetically. As asked by Jean and confirmed by the Phoenix Force itself. Nice try.
Jean states she telekinetically cut the future off and your own evidence states the exact same point. Therefore the fact that she did it is not debatable. 😉
Out of the two bios you posted, only one refers to her amputating the future and thats exactly what im talking about. Bios are summaries of the main points, not extensive breakdowns. Just because something isnt mentioned in a bio, doesnt mean it didnt happen. You would be very naive to believe otherwise.
The main points of the scene are that Jean disinfected reality and created a new future, therefore that is what is mentioned in the bios. The explicit details of how she achieved those things is not necessary.
The fact that Jean amputated the future is however stated clearly on panel and featured in at least one bio.
A universe materializes in Jeans hand after she is told to treat the universe in the hospital and the Consciousness refers to her telekinetic control of all of those atoms. Given the fact that the comment coincides with the eventual manifestation of the universe and the comments about atoms and telekinesis, we are lead to believe that Jean materialised the universe.
A bio is then released confirming Jean can telekinetically manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale. The only time on panel Jean has ever been even indicated to be doing something like that is within this scene.
Your interpretation doesnt cover these points.
Mine covers all areas. All queries you've sent my way have been dealt with. These is a difference between you not liking an answer and me not being able to give a sufficient one.
You're done. 😱
Originally posted by KK the Great
That's the same sort of ultimately meaningless semantics that WW fans are always using to argue why WW must be stronger than Captain Marvel.I'm not really sold on this notion that the IG comes from the big bang, anyway. Numerous minis and events directly centered on the gems and all of the accounts therein are ignored because of one throw-away line in a yuk-yuk She-Hulk title?
But there is a difference between traveling up and down the time stream to avert a future, by involving one self in key moments. And then there is manifesting the time stream, and atomically control it to do the same.
Now if you ask me, who would win between IG Thanos vs. WpotC I have to Say Thanos with the IG. I read about a character who trumpet a group a universal Forces. I would need to see something similar, from WPotC.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean states she telekinetically cut the future off and your own evidence states the exact same point. Therefore the fact that she did it is not debatable. 😉Out of the two bios you posted, only one refers to her amputating the future and thats exactly what im talking about. Bios are summaries of the main points, not extensive breakdowns. Just because something isnt mentioned in a bio, doesnt mean it didnt happen. You would be very naive to believe otherwise.
The main points of the scene are that Jean disinfected reality and created a new future, therefore that is what is mentioned in the bios. The explicit details of how she achieved those things is not necessary.
The fact that Jean amputated the future is however stated clearly on panel and featured in at least one bio.
A universe materializes in Jeans hand after she is told to treat the universe in the hospital and the Consciousness refers to her telekinetic control of all of those atoms. Given the fact that the comment coincides with the eventual manifestation of the universe and the comments about atoms and telekinesis, we are lead to believe that Jean materialised the universe.
A bio is then released confirming Jean can telekinetically manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale. The only time on panel Jean has ever been even indicated to be doing something like that is within this scene.
Your interpretation doesnt cover these points.
Mine covers all areas. All queries you've sent my way have been dealt with. These is a difference between you not liking an answer and me not being able to give a sufficient one.
You're done. 😱
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except that Sublime would still be a threat if she didn't remove him and therefore, it was just as important to remove Sublime as it was to inspire Scott to live to prevent the dystopian future. And Jean may not be time-traveling, to avert future events, but nudging Scott to love and live on = "controlling critical events through the manifested timeline." Characterizing it in an ambiguous manner to allow for over-exaggeration = no thanks. Nudging Scott to love and live is a feat on par with Marty inspiring his father to woo his mother. Except she could use her telepathy to do so and Marty had to do it the hard way.🙄
The important conclusion being, neither of those feats require telekinetically summoning an entire universe atom by atom.
Whether you deem the feat necessary or not is of no relevance. For example, half the enemies Silver Surfer fights can be taken out with a simple Class 100 punch and yet instead the writers has him do so through energy manipulation.
The feats have been stated to occur on panel and the feats are further confirmed officially in a bio. You are in no position to state that they didnt happen because you dont think they were necessary 🙄
Originally posted by id369No, you're doing it wrong.
But there is a difference between traveling up and down the time stream to avert a future, by involving one self in key moments. And then there is manifesting the time stream, and atomically control it to do the same.Now if you ask me, who would win between IG Thanos vs. WpotC I have to Say Thanos with the IG. I read about a character who trumpet a group a universal Forces. I would need to see something similar, from WPotC.
You're trying to prove she atomically controlled the entire time stream. You can't use what your attempting to prove as a premise for your argument. Seriously.
Why would she need to atomically control the entire time stream when all she has to do is compel Scott to love Emma and live life at the Xavier Institute? All it requires is a nudge. Which is exactly how the editors and handbooks characterize her feat and how it is obviously portrayed on-panel. This is so obvious it isn't funny. Next thing you'll tell me is that Booster Gold will have to telekinetically control all of DC's timestream to change events in his title series.
🙄
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, you're doing it wrong.You're trying to prove she atomically controlled the entire time stream. You can't use what your attempting to prove as a premise for your argument. Seriously.
Why would she need to atomically control the entire time stream when all she has to do is compel Scott to love Emma and live life at the Xavier Institute? All it requires is a nudge. Which is exactly how the editors and handbooks characterize her feat and how it is obviously portrayed on-panel. This is so obvious it isn't funny. Next thing you'll tell me is that Booster Gold will have to telekinetically control all of DC's timestream to change events in his title series.
🙄
Whether you believe it was necessary or not is of no consequence. On panel the points are stated or indicated and then offcially they have been confirmed via the handbooks.
Like it or lump it. 🙁
Originally posted by kevdudeDid you fail to read the ig?
I guess you didn't read the scans 😕 . The IG comes from the Big Bang/Phoenix Force right if something is directly coming into Jean (the Force) and the gems have only a limited amount of power within them the IG user will eventually lose, that and considering the human being is the Crown of Creation (with you know who at the very top, God)...