Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thor covering the planet in storms would be a global feat. Someone mind controlling every person on the planet would be a global feat. Its a feat that spans the boundaries of the globe.In comparison someone manipulating the atomic structure of the entire planet within the palm of their hands would be a cosmic feat.
That doesn't answer my question.
Originally posted by The Great GalenThen you are completely ignoring the Beyonder and the secret wars. You cant ignore what they put in the comics just because you personally dont care for it.
Master, I agree with all you're points but I dont believe Beyonder to be as powerful as you claim..I still dont consider him above being multiversal and I dont consider him a rival to LT.
Originally posted by leonidasYa it's funny people calling him overrated when at the time of SW he was pretty much the most powerful than anything else that existed in the multiverse while holding back.
yeah, i've really no idea how this thread got to the beyonder, and i know lots of people hate him and all that--when i was younger i thought he was the absolute SH!T myself--but to say he was overrated . . .the dude was and still remains the most powerful comicbook character ever written, imo.
As for this Vs match I think I said my piece a year ago
Originally posted by kgkgI still say Thanos with the heart could beat him. But these two characters are without a doubt the most powerful ever seen imo.
Ya it's funny people calling him overrated when at the time of SW he was pretty much the most powerful than anything else that existed in the multiverse while holding back.As for this Vs match I think I said my piece a year ago
Originally posted by leonidasyeah, i've really no idea how this thread got to the beyonder, and i know lots of people hate him and all that--when i was younger i thought he was the absolute SH!T myself--but to say he was overrated . . .
the dude was
and still remains the most powerful comicbook character ever written, imo.
Fellas, that's a whole other battle/thread, and it's been done.
It arrived at a stalemate mostly.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474848&pagenumber=1
Originally posted by Mr Master
If you're gonna make a speculative unsupported reason to dismiss every Beyonder feat, I gotta call that making excuses.I don't think anyone should have their own opinion like a guessing game.
In order for us to know how powerful any character from comics is,
we simply look at what they've done on panel, if it's supported in bios, even better.That's it.
If you wanna see feats, just ask.
Again, if you wanna see feats, just ask,
but please stop making that claim, cause it's false.Beyonder collapsed entire UniverseS with thoughts,
could create a Cosmos with a wave of his hand,
erased Death, played with the timestream,
withstood a blast that would've obliterated several Billion entire UniverseS,
defeated the most powerful being in the Multiverse,
made the LT & the hierarchy tremble in fear,
creating from nothing a Multiverse ridiculous times larger than the infinite Marvel Multiverse.To name a few off the top of my head, [b]all done On Panel
.Enough with the "narrative hyperbole" line.
Not pwning the hierarchy?
How about, cause we SEE on panel the cosmic hierarchy shitting in their pants?
Did you miss this?
That's not any "narrative hyperbole" dogs, that literally happening in real time,
the cosmic hierarchy, (including the LT) were trembling in fear.(pwnd)
If you're gonna ignore this, and the rest of Beyonder's on panel feats,
and what the Writer says about him on panel and interviews,
and what the Handbooks of the time say,
there's really no point in debating this subject.dontgetit
That's cool friend, everyone has a right to an honest opinion.
You should read Secret Wars II +/tie-ins though before having an opinion, imo. [/B]
I did glance at it back in the day although my interest was more on DC at the time so it was more of a passing interest that I never looked into. Although from what ive heard and from what u have shown in this thread I think it would be best to agree to disagree...but i will check out the secret wars one more time to hopfully get some more insight.
@Mr. M.
From what I read, in HCT Jean was never separated from the Force. You have to remember that even at the End of “End Song”, Jean/Phoenix is still incomplete. And each other are suppose to fully understand once they recuperate all their pieces. When Jean was woken up, in HCT she was woken up prematurely apparently she still had not aligned herself with her missing pieces. In the end of “End Song”, Jean leaves back to WHR, to recuperate her shattered self. We have no real clue as to what happened to her body.
IMO Jean is clearly referencing her actions from HCT.
I can see my self doing it again. (Ok doing what, must be something grave she had previously commited?)
Here I come tomorrow (wow sounds a lot like the arc Here Comes Tomorrow, where she plays a vary pivotal role).
Little Bug People.
Ok lets take a look. Which of these races suits, Jeans description?
A built in obsolesce, evolutionary dead end.
The Termid species (bug looking people from HCT), had an built in obsolescence…no future, no loss.
Finally the little insert from the Shiar soldiers comments. He does not belong to the race, Phoenix wiped out due to consuming the Star. In fact the reason why the Shi’ar ship was destroyed, was because the Phoenix retaliated to its attack. In fact it was not the Dark Phoenix motive to wipe out, an entire race due built in obsolesce.
So can we at least give this one a rest?
Originally posted by id369Mr. M.
From what I read, in HCT Jean was never separated from the Force. You have to remember that even at the End of “End Song”, Jean/Phoenix is still incomplete. And each other are suppose to fully understand once they recuperate all their pieces. When Jean was woken up, in HCT she was woken up prematurely apparently she still had not aligned herself with her missing pieces. In the end of “End Song”, Jean leaves back to WHR, to recuperate her shattered self. We have no real clue as to what happened to her body.
Noting happened to Jean body at the end of Endsong,
she simply merged with the Force, and was supposed to find her pieces from there.
Jean's mortal form on the other hand,
appears 150 years in the future in a Phoenix Egg.
This is a contradiction.
Originally posted by id369IMO Jean is clearly referencing her actions from HCT.
I can see my self doing it again. (Ok doing what, must be something grave she had previously commited?)
Here I come tomorrow (wow sounds a lot like the arc Here Comes Tomorrow, where she plays a vary pivotal role).
Little Bug People.
Ok lets take a look. Which of these races suits, Jeans description?A built in obsolesce, evolutionary dead end.
The Termid species (bug looking people from HCT), had an built in obsolescence…no future, no loss.Finally the little insert from the Shiar soldiers comments. He does not belong to the race, Phoenix wiped out due to consuming the Star. In fact the reason why the Shi’ar ship was destroyed, was because the Phoenix retaliated to its attack. In fact it was not the Dark Phoenix motive to wipe out, an entire race due built in obsolesce.
So can we at least give this one a rest?
Just sayin though, in the Endsong arc, Jean mentions a number with "genetic obsolescence"
just happens to be that Shiar Captain used the same term,
but also through in the the same number.
Here's the other possibility in case others missed it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
........................................................................................{this is from Endsong)
"Litttle bug people ... a built-in obsolescence"
Hmm ... Seems right, but the poster forgot something,
that Jean clearly points out the number of genetic obsolescences"
she killed,
namely,
"Billions and Billions"........................................................................................
(this is from the SAME arc: Endsong)
A Shiar Commander says:
"Phoenix ... comes to purify the Universe ....burning away what doesn't work,
My (family) died with FIVE BILLION others when Phoenix ate D'Bary's Star,
if you want to tell me They were a Genetic Obsolescence ...
that Phoenix was designed to correct? ..."........................................................................................
Although who knows,
it could be referring to HCT,
which would spin us back into a continuity contradiction.
I almost forgot about this. Let’s do this!
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]1) You've pretty much just listed why using telekinesis on a future is ridiculous and nothing short of speculative with your response. Simply because you believe Jean stated she did it, she must have done it somehow. Phail. You have yet to prove the very first proposition you use. That Jean actually meant that she literally cut the future with her telekinesis. The stream of consciousness which ties the extraction of Sublime = coordinated disinfection = surgery = amputate the future = Phoenix disinfection successful is there on the pages. It is supported by the handbook entries. Prove that it is nothing more than purple prose.[/B]
Destroying any future is inconceivable by our real world science. How can you overlook the similarly ridiculous stories where this has been achieved and yet have an issue with Phoenix stating that she did it?
I believe Jean did it because she stated she did it and the future reality of the story arc in question faded from panel. The handbook states that Jean severed the future from the multiverse and then went on to prevent that future coming about by nudging Scott back in the past. Simple.
I am clearly supported officially.
As for your statement regarding the stream of consciousness within the scene, only you are inexplicably equating the amputation of the future to the removal of Sublime. Just how do you think that works?
The disinfection was the removal of Sublime from reality. To disinfect by its very definition is to cleanse or remove from a site bacteria and micro-organisms. Jean attempted to do this:
However the amputation of that future was something Jean had to do because the infestation was too bad as she stated:
“Some kind of bacterial colony gone rogue. I had to amputate the whole future”
A line which supports the future fading away from panel and an interpretation supported in the bio of the M’kraan crystal.
Her actions saw the removal of Sublime from reality therefore the Consciousness rightly said “Disinfection successful”.
Unless you would like to explain to us how 150 years of timeline can disappear by Phoenix removing Sublime from Beast, then accept mine and Marvels verdict that Jean Grey amputated the Here Comes Tomorrow future from reality.
