Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Current continuity states that the Infinity Gems are conduits for the power of the Big Bang.Phoenix is the Big Bang amongst other things.
The highest feat a wielder of the IG has achieved is to beat down the abstracts(unless someone can tell me something greater)
Phoenix casually amputates timelines and can manipulate a reality in the palm of her hand.
The same reality the IG draws its power from as per current continuity. The same reality that the abstracts are facets of.
In terms of highest feats and going by nature, the Force wins.
Most people would ignore all of this just due to reputation. 😬
Whatever.
I agree most do ignore it because it brings others (abstracts) down, the truth is always the hardest to look at though. 😎
Originally posted by kevdude
I agree most do ignore it because it brings others (abstracts) down, the truth is always the hardest to look at though. 😎
I know its crazy.
It just seems so clear to me that given those points i just brought up, how can anyone say different. But they just go by the reputation of the IG and how badass Thanos seemed wielding it, whilst forgetting the comparative scale.
Wow Thanos beat up some abstracts within the universe. Phoenix had the whole universe in her hand and manipulated it like it was nothing.
It just doesnt match up.
But oh well 😬
Originally posted by Enyalus
One of the abstracts Thanos beat was Eternity...
The Mbody of Eternity isnt the sum of the universe and its power. Otherwise how can the sum of the universe appear within the universe? 😕
Eternity is a representation of the universe. It embodys the universe, the universe doesnt embody Eternity.
Thanos beat up some conceptual entities within the universe.
Phoenix manipulated the actual universe at the atomic level within the palm of her hand.
The difference in scale is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I assume it was "Thanos wasn't that impressive with the IG because he beat some abstracts. Phoenix held the entire 616 universe in her hand."But, Thanos beat Eternity, who's the embodiment of 616...so...
Eternity is a representation of the universe. Its sentience. That black MBody isnt the actual universe just the universe manifesting within itself to communicate with those within. An avatar.
Eternity can never utilise the full powers of the universe without detrimental affects to the universe he represents. Beating Eternity doesnt anywhere near match up to manipulating the atomic structure of the actual universe in the palm of your hand.
It is crazy to try and equate those feats.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Mbody of Eternity isnt the sum of the universe and its power. Otherwise how can the sum of the universe appear within the universe? 😕Eternity is a representation of the universe. It embodys the universe, the universe doesnt embody Eternity.
There's no proof nor even any reason to think an M Body is weaker than the abstract which it represents. Eternity's the embodiment of 'all energy, all matter, in all universes,' 'the embodiment of the life forces of all who live within the universe entire.' And beating him easily at the very least trumph's WCP's feat of manipulating one event within the 616 continuum.
Originally posted by Enyalus
There's no proof nor even any reason to think an M Body is weaker than the abstract which it represents. Eternity's the embodiment of 'all energy, all matter, in all universes,' 'the embodiment of the life forces of all who live within the universe entire.' And beating him easily at the very least trumph's WCP's feat of manipulating one event within the 616 continuum.
Youre wrong. You dont seem to comprehend the nature of the abstracts or what Phoenix did.
Manipulating one event? What are you talking about? 😕
The Mbody is just a representation of the abstract. It is not the sum of all they represent otherwise if the Mbody embodied the sum of that concept then that concept wouldnt exist anywhere else in the universe.
The Eternity Mbody cant be the sum of the universe and appear within the universe. Just like the firebird avatar of the Force cant be the sum of the Big Bang otherwise it wouldnt be able to fly around in a universe that the Big Bang created.
Beating Eternity the representation of the universe does not make you a power greater than the sum of all that is within the universe. It just means you overcame the power that Eternity invested in that Mbody.
If all that was the universe was invested in that Mbody that Thanos fought, then they wouldnt have been able to fight within a universe.
The Phoenix manipulated all of the atoms of the actual universe, showing that the Phoenix power greatly exceeds the sum of the universes power. Beating a little representation of the universe, within said universe does not match up to that.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Manipulating one event? What are you talking about? 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Mbody is just a representation of the abstract. It is not the sum of all they represent otherwise if the Mbody embodied the sum of that concept then that concept wouldnt exist anywhere else in the universe.The Eternity Mbody cant be the sum of the universe and appear within the universe. Just like the firebird avatar of the Force cant be the sum of the Big Bang otherwise it wouldnt be able to fly around in a universe that the Big Bang created.
You're getting cute and changing semantics. You say 'it is not the sum of all they represent.' Okay. I said there's no proof that they're weaker than the concept they represent. Which is true. The LT's embody is the embodiment of the LT's power. Ditto with Death. Ditto with a full Phoenix Force avatar, ditto with Eternity. Do they have to manifest the 'sum of' what they represent within that universe? No. They can take a form, M Body, and still tap into and channel whatever power they have from being the abstractual concept which they represent.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix manipulated all of the atoms of the actual universe, showing that the Phoenix power greatly exceeds the sum of the universes power. Beating a little representation of the universe, within said universe does not match up to that.
The Phoenix stated she could telekinetically control all of the atoms in the universe, yes. She manipulated one event inside that said universe.
Originally posted by Enyalus
She manipulated Scott's decision. That re-wrote the entire future which she had amputated. One event.[/B]
Nope. If you go back two pages and read my posts you will see thats not the case. I will not bother to repeat myself if you cant be bothered to read previous posts in a thread youre participating. I know its a bit of effort but its not too much to ask to at least read the previous two or three pages to see where everything is. 😬
Originally posted by Enyalus
You're getting cute and changing semantics. You say 'it is not the sum of all they represent.' Okay. I said there's no proof that they're weaker than the concept they represent. Which is true. The LT's embody is the embodiment of the LT's power. Ditto with Death. Ditto with a full Phoenix Force avatar, ditto with Eternity. Do they have to manifest the 'sum of' what they represent within that universe? No. They can take a form, M Body, and still tap into and channel whatever power they have from being the abstractual concept which they represent.
As longtime Marvel readers will know, especially Quasar fans, the issue of the abstracts and their Mbodys was discussed. The abstracts choose how much of their essence and power is represented in these Mbodys. It is variable.
Using Hyperstorm as an example. He had access to an unlimited power source, but that didnt mean he could use that power without limit. The amount of that power he could access and the length of time he could do so was limited by his physicality. Therefore despite his great power power source, he could be overpowered by someone who didnt have an unlimited power source, but their physicality and nature meant they had a greater output of power.
Originally posted by Enyalus
The Phoenix stated she could telekinetically control all of the atoms in the universe, yes. She manipulated one event inside that said universe.
Incorrect. Read back a few pages and come back to me. 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As longtime Marvel readers will know, especially Quasar fans, the issue of the abstracts and their Mbodys was discussed. The abstracts choose how much of their essence and power is represented in these Mbodys. It is variable.Using Hyperstorm as an example. He had access to an unlimited power source, but that didnt mean he could use that power without limit. The amount of that power he could access and the length of time he could do so was limited by his physicality. Therefore despite his great power power source, he could be overpowered by someone who didnt have an unlimited power source, but their physicality and nature meant they had a greater output of power.
Hyperstorm is a crapstastic example, considering he's mortal and nowhere near an abstract. Nor does he need an M Body. But you're right about the Quasar stuff, and thanks for reminding me. In Quasar vol 1, 37 and the very beginning of 38 the M-Body stuff is discussed in depth, and abstracts taking an M-Body does not diminish their full power. So, Thanos beat Eternity who was at full power. Along with the rest of the abstracts who were sent against him. No one save for LT is a match for the Gauntlet. That was pretty much shown and explained when Warlock had it.