Thanos with IG vs White Crown Phoenix

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're equivocating. You suggest that if the IG can divert the UN's power against it's user, than the IG's power is greater than the UN, the IG must be multiversal then. Black Alice diverted the Spectreforce agaist Spectre's will, Black Alice's own power is not greater than the Spectre's.

That is exactly what was shown on panel ODG. The power behind the UN was shown to be inferior to that of the IG. Tell me exactly how that isn't true? There is no proof AT ALL that the reason it didn't work was because of Quasar. That is pure conjecture on your part. It's possible but not a fact that is why correct? Second, lets say you have somebody using the Gog's staff and another using a GL ring and they both fire their "weapon" at the same time and one comes out on top, or one lets the other fire and just absorbs it and fires it back. Clearly, a lot of things could be the case but what's is clear is that during that fight One weapon won out over another. That is what the writers were trying to convey unless it's specifically stated why said weapon won/lost. Now it could be because of the user or an attack was used that perfectly countered the other weapon. A lot of reasons could be given but one reason which can't be thrown out is one weapon is above the other. You can't argue that point ODG as that is certain possible and imo probable.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Totally agree. But all we can do is make the most sense of this mess as we can using on panel feats, handbook accounts and a bit of common sense.

IG in current continuity is powered by the Big Bang.

Phoenix Force is the Big Bang.

Highest IG feat is beating [B]representations of the universe within the universe.

The greatest avatar of the Phoenix (not even wielding the full power of the Force) manipulated all that is the ACTUAL universe in the palm of her hand at the atomic level, conclusively demonstrating she was wielding considerably more power than was contained in that universe. She didnt deal with little representations that each tap into the ambient universes power, she manipulated the sum of the actual universe and held it in her hand like a snow globe.

Reputation<On panel feats

Phoenix Force > IG wielder

Simple. 😬 [/B]

So, again GS can you answer my question?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That is exactly what was shown on panel ODG. The power behind the UN was shown to be inferior to that of the IG. Tell me exactly how that isn't true? There is no proof AT ALL that the reason it didn't work was because of Quasar. That is pure conjecture on your part. It's possible but not a fact that is why correct? Second, lets say you have somebody using the Gog's staff and another using a GL ring and they both fire their "weapon" at the same time and one comes out on top, or one lets the other fire and just absorbs it and fires it back. Clearly, a lot of things could be the case but what's is clear is that during that fight One weapon won out over another. That is what the writers were trying to convey unless it's specifically stated why said weapon won/lost. Now it could be because of the user or an attack was used that perfectly countered the other weapon. A lot of reasons could be given but one reason which can't be thrown out is one weapon is above the other. You can't argue that point ODG as that is certain possible and imo probable.

You cant claim the IG is more powerful than the UN based on what happened with Quasar. I explained this quite clearly in one of my previous posts.

The UN isnt a sentient being. It is a mechanical device. Its completely feasible that Magneto could cause it to malfunction just by messing with the inner circuitry. That wouldnt make Magnetos power greater than the UNs.

Using my previous example, if i stuffed something into a gun causing it to blow up on the user that would not make me more powerful than the gun. I just exploited its mechanism.

All we saw on panel was Quasar pressing the button and the device fired on Quasar.

Magus comment was "with a thought i turn the universes most devatating weapon on its bearer"

Thats acknowledgement that Magus affected the weapon. Magus never withstood the power of the UN on his person. He never brushed off its nullification ray with the power of the IG. Therefore no one has any justification to state that the IG is greater.

As stated on panel he turned the weapon against Quasar, his tamperings were directed on the weapon.

The IG is a more versatile weapon, i'll give you that. You can do far more with it, but never has it unleashed destruction like the UN has and never has a UN nullification beam(The very reason why the device is feared so much) been brushed off by the IG.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So, again GS can you answer my question?

Yes i can 😬

Magus comment was "with a thought i turn the universes most devatating weapon on its bearer"

This is exactly the point. I really doubt Magneto could do anything to the U.N. You act as though you could just put a hankie in the "barrel" so to speak and stop the U.N. from doing any damage. It would take a significant power to stop or turn it around on the user and that my friend does show superiority.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yes i can 😬

Please do... I want to compare the list of who the PF has beaten compared to the IG.

All we heard from Magus was that he affected the weapon. With that in mind he caused a mechanical device to malfunction. Thats great. 🙄

What evidence do we have in continuity that the IG is greater?

You dont judge the UN on its sleek metallic design, you judge it on its nullification ray and what that has caused.

The nullification ray has caused more destruction than the IG and affected reality on a bigger scale. Therefore it is greater in terms of destructive power.

Magus never came into conflict with the nullification ray. He has never resisted its effects or brushed them off. He exploited the mechanical device that causes the nullification ray.

That doesnt make the IG more destructively powerful. Just means the UN has an obvious weakness to be exploited. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All we heard from Magus was that he affected the weapon. With that in mind he caused a mechanical device to malfunction. Thats great. 🙄

What evidence do we have in continuity that the IG is greater?

You dont judge the UN on its sleek metallic design, you judge it on its nullification ray and what that has caused.

The nullification ray has caused more destruction than the IG and affected reality on a bigger scale. Therefore it is greater in terms of destructive power.

Magus never came into conflict with the nullification ray. He has never resisted its effects or brushed them off. He exploited the mechanical device that causes the nullification ray.

That doesnt make the IG more destructively powerful. Just means the UN has an obvious weakness to be exploited. 😬

Proof that he only effected the mechanical nature of the device and couldn't or didn't resist it's nullification? Second, again you don't just put a hankie in the "barrel" and stop the U.N. It takes a lot of power to do so and you act like ooo well just throw some water on it and being that it's mechanical it will malfunction. False or show me proof of this. Clearly it's not that easy and clearly it takes vast and diverse powers to do so. There is no proof that the IG couldn't do what the UN has done just because it hasn't happened. You claim the UN is more powerful but in only ONE way shown on panel. However, that is how you quantify power not how I. I consider something that is much more diverse and seemingly just as powerful and already beat said device to be the more powerful weapon. On panel this already happened and diversity and power thus make the IG > UN on panel.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please do... I want to compare the list of who the PF has beaten compared to the IG.

Still no answer GS and do you know why? Because the IG has shit on people the FP could only dream of. battle feats go to the IG with the greatest of ease.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please do... I want to compare the list of who the PF has beaten compared to the IG.

Now thats just a spiteful and somewhat naive retort. ❌

If Galactus manipulated all of the matter of Earth down to the atomic level, you would be very foolish to compare him to a villain for example who had beat down all of the heroes of Earth and just plain stupid to say Galactus doesnt match up because he didnt beat all of the heroes like the villain did. 🙄

Galactus' feat would make that irrelevant. 😬

If Galactus could do that then he wields more power than the sum of Earth combined.

So in a hypothetical match up it would go like this:

Galactus Vs All superhero teams and all nations armies.

Who wins?

Galactus with a thought atomises them.

Match over.

The person who posted that match up would be a very silly person given the feats Galactus had been shown capable of.

Now relate that to Phoenix except this time we're talking the universe in her hand like a snowglobe with total telekinetic control of its atoms. And you would really insist on trying to demean this feat because Phoenix didnt beat up little facets of that snowglobe from within said snowglobe? 🙄

Get outta here ❌

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Proof that he only effected the mechanical nature of the device and couldn't or didn't resist it's nullification? Second, again you don't just put a hankie in the "barrel" and stop the U.N. It takes a lot of power to do so and you act like ooo well just throw some water on it and being that it's mechanical it will malfunction. False or show me proof of this. Clearly it's not that easy and clearly it takes vast and diverse powers to do so. There is no proof that the IG couldn't do what the UN has done just because it hasn't happened. You claim the UN is more powerful but in only ONE way shown on panel. However, that is how you quantify power not how I. I consider something that is much more diverse and seemingly just as powerful and already beat said device to be the more powerful weapon. On panel this already happened and diversity and power thus make the IG > UN on panel.

All it comes down to is that the UN is a mechanical device that generates a nullification beam.

You dont fear the gun, you fear the emitted bullets.

If i compromise the ability of the gun to fire bullets at me then that does not equate to me being beyond a guns ability to do me harm. It just means i exploited its mechanism.

Magus said he turned the weapon on Quasar. No mention was made of energy manipulation, to say different would be speculation. He affected the weapon. This caused it to malfunction.

You therefore have no evidence whatsoever that the IG is greater than the nullification ray. That point is not debatable.

Show me a scan of an IG wielder manipulating the energies of the nullification beam. Show me a scan of an IG user brushing off a nullification blast and then you will have conclusive proof that the IG is greater.

Until then you have nothing.

Nice try. 😬

^^The mere fact that the un couldn't defeat the ig is proof enough. They had it in their possession and it still didn't get the job done. The ig is capable of anything to by the way which includes manipulating time and space.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Still no answer GS and do you know why? Because the IG has shit on people the FP could only dream of. battle feats go to the IG with the greatest of ease.

LT has no high level battle feats whatsoever and yet he is ranked near the top of the pile according to character accounts, handbook statements and so forth and because he took out a device which was greater than the abstracts.

Scarlet Witch never beat up any abstracts and yet she is regarded so highly because of her ability to step over them and affect the reality theyre a part of.

The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. By current continuity the Ig taps into this for its power. Jean Grey who doesnt even wield the full Phoenix Force manipulated the atomic structure of 616 in her palm. She had total telekinetic control of its atoms. And yet you would argue that shes not so great because she hasnt been seen beating up little abstracts who are all just parts of that snowglobe she had in her hand? 🙄

If youre going to persist on this dead end point then question the various other characters in the same situation. Dont overlook them and focus on Phoenix because youre involved in a debate with me and youre frustrated that your feeble points arent getting you anywhere.

Originally posted by quanchi112
^^The mere fact that the un couldn't defeat the ig is proof enough. They had it in their possession and it still didn't get the job done. The ig is capable of anything to by the way which includes manipulating time and space.

Youre missing the point. Im not arguing which is greater as such. Im arguing that that Quasar scene isnt evidence of the IG being greater.

The Un's nullification ray is what is feared. If the UN couldnt activate that ray it would just be a chunk of metal.

Magus never manipulated or shrugged off the ray, he affected the weapon itself. Therefore that scene isnt evidence that the IG is greater.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre missing the point. Im not arguing which is greater as such. Im arguing that that Quasar scene isnt evidence of the IG being greater.

The Un's nullification ray is what is feared. If the UN couldnt activate that ray it would just be a chunk of metal.

Magus never manipulated or shrugged off the ray, he affected the weapon itself. Therefore that scene isnt evidence that the IG is greater.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT has no high level battle feats whatsoever and yet he is ranked near the top of the pile according to character accounts, handbook statements and so forth and because he took out a device which was greater than the abstracts.

Scarlet Witch never beat up any abstracts and yet she is regarded so highly because of her ability to step over them and affect the reality theyre a part of.

The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. By current continuity the Ig taps into this for its power. Jean Grey who doesnt even woeld the full Phoenix Force manipulated the atomic structure of 616 in her palm. She had total telekinetic control of its atoms. And yet you would argue that shes not so great because she hasnt been seen beating up little abstracts are all just parts of that snowglobe she had in her hand? 🙄

If youre going to persist on this dead end point then question the various other character sin the same situation. Dont overlook them and focus on Phoenix because youre involved in a debate with me and youre frustrated that your feeble points arent getting you anywhere.

I'll take that as a concession that the IG has better battle feats then the Phoenix force. You can't say otherwise and thus I did made my point and accept your concession. Your whole point about it being a mechanical device I already disproved that as well... Unless your saying anybody could throw water on the UN and thus since it's mechanical and has moving parts per your theory I could get it to stop working? I really hope that is your theory. In reality though we know it's not and it's not just as simple as stopping it's mechanical function. That is possible but even if that is what happens you have to concede it takes great power to do so which still supports my theory. Unless of course your buying the water theory lol. The fact is though that can't be proven that is what happened. You made the claim so back it up don't ask me to back up your claim. You said the IG effect the mechanics of the U.N. and that alone is why it didn't work. Please show me scans of this happening and it saying that is what happened. Clearly it was the writers intention to show the IG is superior to the UN. You claim it's just more diverse or it's not biggie.. magneto or water could disrupt it. You've said both but clearly it's because it's more diverse using your theory which again further proves my point. Diversity is a sign of power and thus further proves the IG > UN. However, that isn't a fact on why the IG won or it could be for other reasons not known. What's clear though is the writers intention which is the IG > UN on panel and a fact. You can argue why but even under your theory it still takes a great amount of power and diversity which doesn't disprove my point. Thanks come again with your conjecture.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They needed to strike before he got his hands on the ig. Once he had it they were screwed. He didn't even have the reality gem in his possession anywho.

Of course they were screwed. Their great hope had a weakness that Magus could easily exploit and he did. It was mechanical. The feared nullification ray, (the power that causes the UN to ranked so highly) is dependent on the internal mechanisms of the UN.

Magus affected the weapon and it malfunctioned.

And any wielder could do it again and again if faced with the UN, but thats not the point. The point is that exploiting a weakness doesnt equate to someone being greater in power. If that was the case then the IG wielder could just take a blast from the UN head on and shrug it off. But no, Magus had to tamper with the weapon to avoid it firing on him. That says it all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They needed to strike before he got his hands on the ig. Once he had it they were screwed. He didn't even have the reality gem in his possession anywho.

BUT

... they are perfectly accurate on a logical level, so why are you exercising evasive maneuvers instead of reacting directly to them? 😕

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Of course they were screwed. Their great hope had a weakness that Magus could easily exploit and he did. It was mechanical. The feared nullification ray, (the power that causes the UN to ranked so highly) is dependent on the internal mechanisms of the UN.

Magus affected the weapon and it malfunction.

And any wielder could do it again and again if faced with the UN, but thats not the point. The point is that exploiting a weakness doesnt equate to someone being greater in power. If that was the case then the IG wielder could just take a blast from the UN head on and shrug it ogg. But no, Magus had to tamper with the weapon to avoid it firing on him. That says it all.

Or as i think...He just used the mind Gem on quasar and made him turn it upon himself...thats what i get when i read it.(quasar is so concerned about his concentration during his use of it)...but i guess your explanation is as good as mine 😉

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'll take that as a concession that the IG has better battle feats then the Phoenix force. You can't say otherwise and thus I did made my point and accept your concession. Your whole point about it being a mechanical device I already disproved that as well... Unless your saying anybody could throw water on the UN and thus since it's mechanical and has moving parts per your theory I could get it to stop working? I really hope that is your theory. In reality though we know it's not and it's not just as simple as stopping it's mechanical function. That is possible but even if that is what happens you have to concede it takes great power to do so which still supports my theory. Unless of course your buying the water theory lol. The fact is though that can't be proven that is what happened. You made the claim so back it up don't ask me to back up your claim. You said the IG effect the mechanics of the U.N. and that alone is why it didn't work. Please show me scans of this happening and it saying that is what happened. Clearly it was the writers intention to show the IG is superior to the UN. You claim it's just more diverse or it's not biggie.. magneto or water could disrupt it. You've said both but clearly it's because it's more diverse using your theory which again further proves my point. Diversity is a sign of power and thus further proves the IG > UN. However, that isn't a fact on why the IG won or it could be for other reasons not known. What's clear though is the writers intention which is the IG > UN on panel and a fact. You can argue why but even under your theory it still takes a great amount of power and diversity which doesn't disprove my point. Thanks come again with your conjecture.

A load of waffle.

Its the UNs nullification ray that is feared. This ray that nullify universes is what causes the Un to be ranked so high.

Once again, you dont fear the gun, you fear its ability to emit bullets.

The power of the UN wasnt shrugged off or withstood. Magus exploited its weakness, the fact that it was a mechanical device. Given that Magus said he affected the weapon and no mention was made of any manipulation of the UN's nullification ray, it is your burden of responsibility to find something within continuity that shows that he didnt just affect the weapon itself LIKE HE SAID HE DID 😂

And dont tell me what the writers were clearly trying to portray. Thats just your personal opinion. If the writers were so keen on portraying the undoubted superiority of the IG, then they would have had Magus shrug off a nullification blast. They didnt. 🙂

As for Phoenix , please acknowledge the other high level characters who lack high level feats or we can all disregard your blabbing as spite and frustration.

A Phoenix avatar has performed feats beyond the IG, the IGs power stems from the Big Bang which is part of the Phoenix Force and thats all it comes down to.

Phoenix VS Abstracts

Who wins?

Phoenix telekinetically atomises the snowglobe 😂

Say hello to Eternity and the abstracts guys:

😱

Phoenix FTW