Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Resorting to name calling are we lol.You have no proof at all that the IG effect the mechanics of the UN none what-so-ever. It's possible but so are a lot of things. You act as though it's a fact while I act as though a lot of things could've happened. You've already lost the debate just on your stubborness and lack of logic alone. However, again answer my question... Could somebody just throw water on the UN since you claim all you have to do is disrupt it's mechanics as if it's that easy? Or are you saying it's not that easy but the IG is powerful enough to do so? Regardless, as even your argument points out my view is correct. THE WRITERS WANTED TO DEPICT THE IG BEING GREATER THEN THE UN. You disagreed with it yet then turned around and agreed when called on it. Clearly, they were trying to convey that message correct which is exactly what I said. Unless of course you have some evidence saying they weren't trying to convey that and the only reason the IG won was because it effected its mechanics.
Did you really just reiterate your lats post almost word for word when it has been rendered irrelevant?
Why would you keep saying could someone just throw water on it? Never have i made out as if it was that easy. I stated that the UN is a device and what is feared about it is the energies it generates. Said energies are dependent on the workings of the device. It is totally feasible that if you tamper with those workings that the device would malfunction.
Magus said nothing of manipulating the energies of the UN and there was no artistic depiction of that. All he said was that he turned the weapon on the user. That alone is not evidence enough to say an IG wielder can shrug off the power of the UN. Especially when said power never came into conflict with the IG user. Simple.
Ive said throughout that the IG is more versatile, ive said on multiple occassions that the IG could take out the UN as we saw, but not because it has the power to just deflect the UNs power, no because the UN has an easy to exploit weakness. It is a device.
I havent changed my perspective at all. You have just been too ebgrossed in your own argument to bother to acknowledgment what it is that im actually arguing. Thats on you buddy 👇
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Secondly, again I had to tool you.... Didn't you reference the LT in one of your post arguing that he doesn't have any battle feats and therefore he's like the PF? I can quote it for you if you'd like but you did say that. So, you referenced him not me, i just gave you examples of his battle feats to which you then ignore because I just proved you wrong again. The LT does have battle feats while the FP... well has the Onslaught Saga lol haha.
I did reference LT and when you reminded me of the Korvac situation i realised that he shouldnt be included as an example, however was LT the only character i referenced? 😕
Does the point only stand for LT? 😕
So instead of trying to avoid my point, why dont you address it? Once again, there are a number of characters who have been given a ranking in the top tiers based not on battle feats, but through feats of energy/reality manipulation. Why are you focusing on Phoenix and ignoring these characters?
You either tackle those characters as well or drop the point. Simple.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIf said universe wasnt a pocket universe, then yes you'd have a point.
Post Retcon Beyonder's Universe is an entire Universe.
To claim it's a "pocket-verse" is absolutely false.
When Dr Doom and the FF went off searching for Post-Retcon Beyonder's FULL BLOWN Universe,
they had to go through the "Cross Roads of Infinity" ...
... which is a freakin Nexus into other entire Universes.
"that is why we have come to this UNIVERSE to find him ...
"His power exploded into a New UNIVERSE"
...............
Let's go Universe hunting.
........................
What do we have here:
"a lightless UNIVERSE! .... You SEE? Now we shift to a SECOND one!"
(yea, I guess that Universe full of Celestials is also a "pocket-verse"😉 facepalm
........................
"we're right on the edge of ALL REALITIES"
(yea, I guess Doom means all pocket-verses) LOL!
........................
"before us lies our Final UNIVERSE"
(darn it, why is he lying, we know that's a pocket-verse) huh?
........................
Torch thinks they just landed in "Our UNIVERSE"... (616) ... so 616 = "pocket-verse?) 😂
Doom let's him know to the contrary ...
........................
"Beyonder hear me"
"Good lord he's the sun"
"NOT JUST the sun, Johnny. Beyonder is EVERYTHING in this UNIVERSE"
Big Bang energies turned sentient my ass!
==============
Planetary EMP,
which evidently is enough to shatter the almighty Phoenix Force! 🙂
......................................................................................
Xorn, killing Jean Grey ...
and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself into billions of pieces!
......................................................................................
On Panel:
......................................................................................
Beast remembers:
......................................................................................
Bio:
......................................................................................
(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,
this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................
(from WC Phoenix - Jean Grey's official 2008 bio)
"Jean opposed faux Magneto but was killed by a lethal EMP
that shattered the Phoenix Force into Billions of pieces"
......................................................................................
This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion pieces"
=====================
I mean, seriously folks, 😆 ... is he for real? ... crazy
Actually they not only forced the PF's resurrection,
but they also shattered the PF itself into pieces partially due to the "Event Horizon"
as Tenebrous pointed out.
So canonically, the PF has been shattered TWICE! 😆 (Shiar are tuff but come on) 😂
Into Billions of pieces by an EMP at the hands of Xorn.
By a Shiar device as well.
......................................................................................
On Panel proof:
Here's the PF again, being shattered, this time by the Shiar:
In fact, Jean Grey was STILL DEAD, since Xorn's EMP!
Here's the Shiar at the end of the issue,
explaining the "Eleka'an Event Horizon" they used on the PF.
The PF survived by escaping at the last moment,
but it was still injured, dying, meh, literally shattered AGAIN!
......................................................................................
Bio confirmation of said on panel proof:
"The Force was later ripped back to reality by a Shiar device
that forcibly reconstituted it. Injured, the Force fell ....
searched for Jean and, finding her DEAD, resurrected her ..."
Originally posted by Mr Master
This thread has been overwhelmed by bull shitMy goodness,
the dude has reached new heights of conscious fallacious interpretations.
GS indeed has some points ... and very simple ones at that:
1. Just because you can turn off or refocus a weapon (UN) with a powerful remote (IG), doesn't necessarily mean you're bulletproof. It only means you can avoid being damaged by the weapon easily.
2. Just because the President of the USA (Phoenix) didn't battle every other influential officer, businessman, scientist or politician (Abstracts) in a wrestling ring, doesn't change the fact that he's the most powerful man on earth.
Bluntly spoken: If someone can nuke a whole country (telekinetically rearrange a universe's atomic structure), it is pointless to argument “But that someone were never seen battling one of the local warlords and their bazookas one on one, so he's not as powerful as them."
These days we are not shaken by Thorns actions but by Galactus comment in regards to the Elder of the Universe.
All marvel Cosmics have let us down at one point or another. All.
From the Thing, using a steel pool as 2x4 across Galactus head. All the way from Infinity Gem being, being pawned by the Ebony Blade. I mean I can go on, from Red Hulk to Superboy Prime.
Originally posted by id369
These days we are not shaken by Thorns actions but by Galactus comment in regards to the Elder of the Universe.All marvel Cosmics have let us down at one point or another. All.
From the Thing, using a steel pool as 2x4 across Galactus head. All the way from Infinity Gem being, being pawned by the Ebony Blade. I mean I can go on, from Red Hulk to Superboy Prime.
👆
Originally posted by wannabeWhy would you say that?
GS indeed has some points ... and very simple ones at that:
Originally posted by wannabe1. Just because you can turn off or refocus a weapon (UN) with a powerful remote (IG), doesn't necessarily mean you're bulletproof. It only means you can avoid being damaged by the weapon easily.
On Panel an incomplete IG had total control of the UN energies.
Simple, effective.
Originally posted by wannabe2. Just because the President of the USA (Phoenix) didn't battle every other influential officer, businessman, scientist or politician (Abstracts) in a wrestling ring, doesn't change the fact that he's the most powerful man on earth.
The Phoenix Force got blown to pieces by a planetary EMP.
The Phoenix Force was nearly erased from existence by Galactus.
The Phoenix Force got blown to pieces AGAIN, by the Shiar.
The Phoenix Force got owned by 6 heroes. (Rougue was one of them) 😬
The Phoenix Force, nor any incarantion/host,
has ever created a Universe on panel.
In fact, Jean/Rachel, the Phoenix Force itself,
or whoever was a host,
has never even created a pocket-verse on panel,
not even a pocket-realm,
not even a Galaxy.
Yet, you wanna shove into rational minds that this joke is the most powerful creation?
The energies of the Big Bang?
forgetu
Originally posted by wannabeBluntly spoken: If someone can nuke a whole country (telekinetically rearrange a universe's atomic structure), it is pointless to argument
Kubik (a Cube Being) did the same thing on panel,
while battling said Universe,
while withIN said Universe.
Unlike Jean, who supposedly did something to some alternate unconscious reality,
who had to be in the WHR to perform her task on said alternate diverged verse.
Who really didn't even do what your claiming either as OneDumbGo so eloquently proved.
Originally posted by id369All marvel Cosmics have let us down at one point or another. All.
And certainly not like Phoenix.
Originally posted by id369From the Thing, using a steel pool as 2x4 across Galactus head.
Still stupid I agree, but that was back in the early 70's.
Originally posted by id369All the way from Infinity Gem being, being pawned by the Ebony Blade.
The Gems had become sentient,
and were struggling for control with Nemesis over its power.
Originally posted by id369I mean I can go on, from Red Hulk to Superboy Prime.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force got blown to pieces by a planetary EMP.The Phoenix Force was nearly erased from existence by Galactus.
The Phoenix Force got blown to pieces AGAIN, by the Shiar.
The Phoenix Force got owned by 6 heroes. (Rougue was one of them) 😬
The Phoenix Force, nor any incarantion/host,
has ever created a Universe on panel.In fact, Jean/Rachel, the Phoenix Force itself,
or whoever was a host,
has never even created a pocket-verse on panel,
not even a pocket-realm,
not even a Galaxy.Yet, you wanna shove into rational minds that this joke is the most powerful creation?
The energies of the Big Bang?
forgetu
Hey Mr. Master, you wanna refute GS's unfounded claims about M-Bodies only tapping into a fraction of the power that those concepts represent? You probably have a lot more on-panel evidence than I do regarding that.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Not true.And certainly not like Phoenix.
Stipulation: He was hungry.
Still stupid I agree, but that was back in the early 70's.
The Infinity Being was being owned by itself,
that's why that ridiculous move worked.The Gems had become sentient,
and were struggling for control with Nemesis over its power.Go on, concerning Marvel cosmics.
Actually getting smacked by the steel pole, is one the weakest moments in Galactus history. Yes more so then being Blown by Thorneto.
And the Infinity Being, was a huge let down. Getting owned by its own energies thanks the Ebony Blade..jeez.
Originally posted by GalacticStormYou are asking me to prove a negative. You can't prove anything with regards to it anyways. My point has been made and you agree the ig defeats the un everytime.
If i was in possession of the IG and someone was going to use a device on me then i wouldnt give a shit either lolThe device isnt to be feared, but the energies it generates. Said energies are dependent on the workings of the device. So if you were in possession of a gauntlet that could do virtually anything, would you be scared?
Nope. You just target the device and thats what he did.
If we're arguing who would win out of a fight, an IG wielder or a UN wielder then its the IG hands down. But thats not what im arguing and thats what you seem to be missing time and time again.
What im arguing is that that scene is not evidence of the IG being able to empower a user beyond the destructive effects of the UN.
The Ig can make sure they never have to face the null beam, but nowhere in continuity have we been given a scene that conclusively shows us that the IG can shrug off the power of the UN.
The un went off in Galactus' battle with Tyrant are you saying that blast would iyo have defeated an ig user?
