Thanos with IG vs White Crown Phoenix

Originally posted by id369

Space Gods embarrassing moments.

Phoenix was exploded by a World level EMP.

Originally posted by id369

Merlyn was took a beat down, from Psylock.

Matrix Merlyn >to infinity> current Merlyn.

Originally posted by id369

Roma got stabbed by your average house knife.

Originally posted by id369

MJJ/Fury got blow up by Blink.

Blink never did anything to MJJ.

And Blink didn't blow up Fury on her own either,
there was a stipulation involved (I explained) you seemed to consciously ignore.

Originally posted by id369

The Watcher was taken out by Lunatik thanks to knee to his balls.

Originally posted by id369

Thor took a beating from Rulk, with his own hammer.

Originally posted by id369

A Celestial was taken down by Invisible Women

You can't just say IW took out a Celestial without explaining how she did it,
that's misleading the fact imo.

Originally posted by id369

Galactus was stunned by having a steel pool smashed upside his head.

Originally posted by id369

Beyonder will obey his Fake King.

Beyonder didn't obey anyone,
at the end of the issue he clearly returns to Earth.

On top of that, that entire scenario was conjured by Beyonder himself,
in order to make X and company believe what they thought to be true,
fact is though, Beyonder mind raped all of them
into thinking he was an Inhuman/Mutatnt,
next arc will tell us why exactly.

Originally posted by id369

Maker was taken out by cosmic debris.

Maker was taken out by Thanos.

And like Thanos clearly pointed out,
it was only possible because the Maker made itself extremely vulnerable
by taking on Mortal form, it became partially insane and weak.

Originally posted by id369

Eternity is simply the biggest under achiever,
for all his glorified power he often comes up short.

Anywho,
Bring up all of his under achievements and we'll examine them one by one.

Originally posted by kgkg

-Rulk punching Watcher -
and narration tauting people saying that can your hero beat a watcher.

Originally posted by kgkg

Galactus being afraid of being devolved by H.E

Originally posted by kgkg

SS exploding Korvac killing him

Originally posted by kgkg

SS sorta stalemating Rune with IG

Originally posted by kgkg

Galactus saying Grandmaster is his equal

Originally posted by kgkg

Abstracts who are suppose to know everything being trick multiple time.

Originally posted by kgkg

Infinites owning Eternity like nothing
getting one gets killed rearranging a galaxy

No Infinite died to re-arrange any Galaxy.

An Infinite sacrificed itself to become one with life,
that was it's main objective, to experience the wonderment of limitation/mortality,
but beyond this,
it's death would repair the countless Galaxies across the Multiverse
that were ravaged by them.

The list goes on? ... so give me more. 🙂

The abstract one is true, how often are universal elders always constantly decieved and tricked lol. Although regardlss of marvel's opinion, grandmaster is not Galactus equal. I know its going agaisnt on-panel verification but how the hell could marvel publish that lol.

Nothing Loeb does surprises me

Loeb = 👇

Originally posted by Mr Master

Coulda sworn that was a joke.

Everything could be a joke. I did not find that funny especially when we see Hulk punching a watcher.

[QUOTE]😐

Without the empowerment of Galactus' ship or the CCU, Korvac wasn't all that.

Stupid statement, by an ignorant writer, not a low showing.

Elaborate.

for example :
-Thanos obtaining the IG - Surely eternity , Chronos whould have seen this coming and be able to stop him before he gets the Gem
-Eternity being worried about Thor with power gem - When at that time he could have stopped him easy

Stuff like that where omnipresence , and omnipotent are notting but silly words thrown out there

False. No Infinite died to re-arrange any Galaxy. An Infinite sacrificed itself to become one with life, that was it's main objective, to experience the wonderment of limitation/mortality, but beyond this, it's death would repair the countless Galaxies across the Multiverse that were ravaged by them.

Restore all Galaxy in the multiverse is speculation at best. Consider he had to sacrifice himself.

What we seen on panel is one planet being restored with no LIFE.
and the statement " I can bring new life to this sphere ... and others"

- Not being able to restore LIFE is a worse feat

The list goes on? ... so give me more. 🙂

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Yeah he did. Magus outright manipulated the Nullification energy with a thought.

Quasar #40

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Infinity War 5

There you all have it. Proof the IG manipulating the nullification energy of the UN and confined to just Quasar - leaving the universe and Magus' citadel intact.

The ability to manipulate does not equate to a higher overall scope of power.

Consider these other factors: (i) Adam Warlock was able to operate outside the influence of the full Infinity Gauntlet when Nebula possessed it; and (ii) Thanos himself found the full Infinity Gauntlet's power on Maelstrom completely ineffective because Maelstrom had combined himself with the being Anomaly and became the avatar of Oblivion. I can go on and on, but the bottom-line is this: Black Alice > Spectre = false cause fallacy.

Originally posted by Makky
The abstract one is true, how often are universal elders always constantly decieved and tricked lol. Although regardlss of marvel's opinion, grandmaster is not Galactus equal. I know its going agaisnt on-panel verification but how the hell could marvel publish that lol.

to everyone.

Originally posted by kgkg

Restore all Galaxy in the multiverse is speculation at best. Consider he had to sacrifice himself.

What we seen on panel is one planet being restored with no LIFE.
and the statement " I can bring new life to this sphere ... and others"

- Not being able to restore LIFE is a worse feat

Actually, that's already false. As last I checked, plant life is life. Also, we saw no humans/etc, because they were looking at a pond. Not one person who inhabited the planet should be anywhere near there.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Post the rest of the comic where it shows Quasar floating around in Oblivion's realm and theorizing that Magus may have manipulated him rather than the Ultimate Nullifier itself. I had the scan on my laptop when it died on me.

Why don't you go through Quasar #40 and find it for me. I went back after reading your post and found nothing. Look through it twice. Nothing. If it's in another issue of Quasar, then point to it or post scans. Demonoid has Quasar torrents.

So what? So what if the IG allows you to manipulate energies? That doesn't make the IG capable of resetting the entire Multiverse! What is so hard to understand about this? Black Alice can manipulate the Spectreforce, that does not make her capable of Multiversal feats like Spectre! Cap can redirect the force of Hulk's punch back into his face, that does not make him more powerful than Hulk!

Well **** Black Alice. Black Alice ain't the IG. And neither did Spectre looked at BA and determined a fight with her could potentially destroy existence. Neither did the embodiment of the existence ask for help against Black Alice. When's the last time BA made the great deities of DCU look like chumps? LOL.

The ability to manipulate does not equate to a higher overall scope of power.

That argument can go either way. Neither you nor I can tell unless the UN does a multiversal nullification and the IG user can or can't bring the multiverse back. As of now, we have the IG manipulating nullification energy and contains it with a thought. However, this is not the IG's only great feat. There's plenty of others to show its scope of power.

Consider these other factors: (i) Adam Warlock was able to operate outside the influence of the full Infinity Gauntlet when Nebula possessed it; and (ii) Thanos himself found the full Infinity Gauntlet's power on Maelstrom completely ineffective because Maelstrom had combined himself with the being Anomaly and became the avatar of Oblivion. I can go on and on, but the bottom-line is this: Black Alice > Spectre = false cause fallacy. [/B]

See above.

Originally posted by Mekrob] So, instead of taking what he says as true, we should have the artist draw millions of worlds to prove his point?

[i]Originally posted by Mekrob ]Actually, that's already false. As last I checked, plant life is life. Also, we saw no humans/etc, because they were looking at a pond. Not one person who inhabited the planet should be anywhere near there.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Why don't you go through Quasar #40 and find it for me. I went back after reading your post and found nothing. Look through it twice. Nothing. If it's in another issue of Quasar, then point to it or post scans. Demonoid has Quasar torrents.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Well **** Black Alice. Black Alice ain't the IG. And neither did Spectre looked at BA and determined a fight with her could potentially destroy existence. Neither did the embodiment of the existence ask for help against Black Alice. When's the last time BA made the great deities of DCU look like chumps? LOL.

That argument can go either way. Neither you nor I can tell unless the UN does a multiversal nullification and the IG user can or can't bring the multiverse back. As of now, we have the IG manipulating nullification energy and contains it with a thought. However, this is not the IG's only great feat. There's plenty of others to show its scope of power.

When you relinquish this faulty argumentation, you have only one thing to measure scope of power by: feats. Spectre has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Black Alice. Hulk has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Cap. The Ultimate Nullifier as a feat of power that logically shows it has a higher scope of power than the Infinity Gauntlet. Because NOTHING the IG did shows that it could even come anywhere close to resetting the entire Marvel Multiverse. Nuff said.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
See above.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Should have it downloaded by tonight.
No. The argument can't go the other way. The [b]ability to manipulate force does not equate to higher scope of power. False cause fallacy. Black Alice manipulated Spectreforce. That doesn't magically imbue her with a higher scope of power than the Wrath of God. Black Alice isn't in some superior class over an aspect of God. Cap manipulated Hulk's strength and momentum against Hulk. That doesn't magically imbue Cap with a higher scope of power than Hulk. Cap isn't in some 100++ class over Hulk.

LOL. So if Lucifer Morningstar or Mxy manipulated Spectre's power, it has nothing to do with LM or Mxy being greater than Spectre? Thanos can manipulate Hulk's strength and momentum against Hulk too. And?

Neither BA nor Cap is greater than their adversaries you presented because we know they're not. We have plenty of examples. And we've got plenty of examples to suggest that Thanos and LM or Thanos is greater than their opponents.

What you're saying regarding scope of power would be true if that's the highest feat the IG has. But it's not.

When you relinquish this faulty argumentation, you have only one thing to measure scope of power by: feats. Spectre has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Black Alice. Hulk has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Cap. The Ultimate Nullifier as a feat of power that logically shows it has a higher scope of power than the Infinity Gauntlet. Because NOTHING the IG did shows that it could even come anywhere close to resetting the entire Marvel Multiverse. Nuff said.

Now we're getting somewhere. The UN has one feat that the IG does not have. When an IG tries to affect the multiverse and fail, then call me.

The IG has feats that show it's higher in scope than the UN. Or was LT delusional when he said he wanted to avoid a conflict with Warlock over the IG?

You mean when you dodged the argument that Adam Warlock can operate outside the awareness of a full IG user like Nebula? Or when you dodged the argument that Maelstrom was completely immune to the effects of a full IG user like Thanos? The dodges were so quick and subtle I looked for them and still couldn't find them. 😛

LOL. What's there to talk about? Warlock was outside it's influence because of his connection with the Soul Gem and Nebula's slow to adapt compared to other wielders. Even Thanos manipulated her into making a foolish wish that nearly cost her the Gauntlet. Strange also preserved them through a spell, but when she found out she made she he wasn't able to do it again. As for Maelstrom (agent of Oblivion, cosmic awareness gained from Eon, and his status as Anomolly) surviving Thanos' blast, Thanos was not verse in the IG's power like all new users of the IG. Maelstorm even noted that he should not dismiss the IG's power if Thanos was adept in it's use. What you have is Maelstrom with his cosmic awareness and status at the time survived one blast from an unskilled IG user and then left. On the other hand, Thanos further into IG series stomped the collective abstracts and even Eternity. We have feats to suggest him stomping Maelstrom if Thanos was more adept to the IG.

We have feats, like we have feats to show the IG is higher in scope than the UN. Just cause you want to ignore the IG's power by using a false cause fallacy argument that doesn't mean that's the case when it comes to IG and UN. Just because we didn't the IG reverse a multiversal attack by the UN, it doesn't mean it can't. Until an IG wielder tries and fails or tries to destroy the multiverse and fail, it goes either way. But you know what, there's plenty of feats to support the IG's scope higher than the UN. An incomplete IG (without the reality gem) manipulated the UN's power with a thought and merged two universes. 30 Cosmic Cube's were still not as powerful as the IG. LT had to intervene where as the rest of the MU cosmics got literally pimp slapped by IG wielders.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The Ultimate Nullifier as a feat of power that logically shows it has a higher scope of power than the Infinity Gauntlet.

Because NOTHING the IG did shows that it could even come anywhere close
to resetting the entire Marvel Multiverse.

Ok, ego stroke aside, I have to disagree with your stance on this matter,
and I have to agree with WWK on this one.

Without a doubt, the IGis above the UN,
in power/status and every which way in-between.

Why didn't the IG in the hands of Thanos/Nebula/Warlock affect the Multiverse?

Because Thanos only wanted 616. (although technially this is Multiverse-like)

Because Nebula was half-crazed (stipulation) and thus was "defeated"

Because Warlock didn't want any Universe.

Simple.

The fact remains though,
that Thanos curbstomped the power of the infinite prime Multiverse (616 Eternity) in one move.

IMO, that's basically the same thing, in a way. 🙂

Originally posted by kgkg
If you want to use claim that he "repair the countless Galaxies across the Multiverse " as Mr.M stated yes you whold need a better statement than that. It could easily mean all planet in the this universe , in the galaxy that they manipulated in that universe etc.

By life I and / Infinite meant animal/sentient life which the Infinite could clearly not make.

He says he will create new life, and bring life to that spheres and others, but can't restore the countless others that have lost their life.
That's not even close to a bad feat.

Or it could mean every planet they've ever screwed with...

He says he will create new life, and bring life to that spheres and others, but can't restore the countless others that have lost their life. That's not even close to a bad feat.

He clearly says he CAN"T and not won't

the reason why this is a bad showing for them it's that Infinite were suppose to be > Eternity

Originally posted by kgkg
it could. But we can't know for certain which was my point the wording is to vague.

He says he can't bring back life that existed before..... and when he recreated life he could not bring back sentient life back he had to let evolution take it's course.

He clearly says he CAN"T and not won't

the reason why this is a bad showing for them it's that Infinite were suppose to be > Eternity

You got a scan that says that? Haven't read the arc in a while.
Besides, wouldn't he be doing that for every planet lost anyway?

Ya. Did I say that?

But they were over Eternity... 😕
And creating things/etc doesn't mean that you're instantly above someone. If you're clearly above someone in battle, then you're not below them because you can't create life, nor is it relevant to battle prowess.

But he's talking about every other world... 'the others' You got a scan that says that? Haven't read the arc in a while. Besides, wouldn't he be doing that for every planet lost anyway? Ya. Did I say that?

My original argument was that we can't know if this meant in the whole Multiverse like Mr.M was claiming

But they were over Eternity... 😕 And creating things/etc doesn't mean that you're instantly above someone. If you're clearly above someone in battle, then you're not below them because you can't create life, nor is it relevant to battle prowess.

But maybe that just me

am kinda getting bored talking about this to tell you truth. I respect your opinion on your view of that situation
but I still see it as a bad showing for a multiversal level character.

Originally posted by kgkg
am kinda getting bored talking about this to tell you truth.

Originally posted by Mekrob
Isn't that true for every discussion?

Whitewitchking and Mr Master: you've been caught. You're suggesting that a full IG user's limitations when confronting Adam Warlock and Maelstrom is not dispositive of its power, because it is the user's (Nebula, inexperienced Thanos) limitations that are being reflected in those instances.

That doesn't sound familiar? Haven't I been asserting this whole time that Quasar is an inexperinced user of the Ultimate Nullifier? That any deficiency in result is much more attributable to Qusar's inability to use it properly?

So why is it that we can excuse the IG's shortcomings and not the UN's? There's no reason at all. Unless you're desperate to ignore that one artifact reset the entire Marvel Multiverse and the other artifact's greatest claim to fame was the theoretic ability to lay waste to the 616 universe when confronting the Living Tribunal. Funny, Zom and even Power Gem WM Thor were both suggested to be capable of laying waste to 616 Eternity.

What else do you have? Merging two universes? Please. The best thing you had was Magus turning the UN's energies back onto Quasar. Unfortunately, Quasar suffered from his own personal limitations and any failure is more attributable to him. Which should sound familiar, because its the same excuse you give to Nebula and Thanos when dealing with Adam Warlock and Maelstrom respectively.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by kgkg

My original argument was that we can't know if this meant in the whole Multiverse

like Mr.M was claiming [/B]

Not just Planets, but whole Galaxies,
Galaxies contain 100's of millions of Stars,
Planets? ... That number must be ridiculous.

Now consider Planets across the Multiverse.

That will be all on whether it was Planets in one verse, or more.

Im at work right now, no access to my scans,
I'll post the proof tomorrow though.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Mr Master: you've been caught.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You're suggesting that a full IG user's limitations when confronting Adam Warlock and Maelstrom is not dispositive of its power, because it is the user's (Nebula, inexperienced Thanos) limitations that are being reflected in those instances.

Second, literally on panel Thanos clearly pointed out
the reason why Warlock snuck undetected pass Nebula,
and YES, it was because of Nebula's damged mind,
Thanos went on to say that would never have worked if he had the IG.

So .. so much for that scene.

Onto Maelstrom,
Maelstrom didn't do anything, like at all,
he got obliterated, then somehow reappeared, talked some ish,
then left, that's it.

What we do know is,
that Maelstrom clearly stated that the IG was above his power.

The question is, why/how did Maelstrom survive being blasted by the IG?

No one can know, since disclosure was never given to us on panel or otherwise,
but IMO, it's because he was Oblivion's agent,
Maelstrom might've been annilated/erased in that blast,
and yet,
Oblivion could've easily just poped Maelstrom back into reality,
since Oblivion is the God of nothingess, of the realm of nothingness.

Also, Mephisto made a comment in that moment,
he said it was nothing but the cosmic wind (whatever that means)
perhaps Thanos had a moment of uncertanty (you know his sub-conscious weakness)
and this made him believe maelstrom was still there for another second.

Meh, I can't prove either conclusively, but those are my opinions.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

That doesn't sound familiar? Haven't I been asserting this whole time that Quasar is an inexperinced user of the Ultimate Nullifier? That any deficiency in result is much more attributable to Qusar's inability to use it properly?

Especially since Quasar's mind, atleast at that time for sure,
should've been more attuned to cosmic geopgraphy than Reed's,
and that's what it takes to effectively harness the UN.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

So why is it that we can excuse the IG's shortcomings and not the UN's? There's no reason at all. Unless you're desperate to ignore that one artifact reset the entire Marvel Multiverse and the other artifact's greatest claim to fame was the theoretic ability to lay waste to the 616 universe when confronting the Living Tribunal. Funny, Zom and even Power Gem WM Thor were both suggested to be capable of laying waste to 616 Eternity.

Defeating the power of the prime Multiverse (616 Eternity) in one shot is,
the LT stating it makes one the supreme being beneath him is,
the LT having to pause (due to its God-status) before passing judgement on the IG is,
the LT stating that if the IG is formed ...
... it would bring the demise of the Ultraverse Multiverse and the 616 Multiverse is.

I mean, Rune froze the entire 616 timestream with just the Time Gem,
and Eternity stated that with time, just the Power Gem was a threat to the Multiverse.

So, what's so difficult to believe the IG is leagues above these feats/threats.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

What else do you have? Merging two universes? Please.

According to Thanos only a tatse of Godhood in comparison with the 6 Gemed IG.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The best thing you had was Magus turning the UN's energies back onto Quasar. Unfortunately, Quasar suffered from his own personal limitations and any failure is more attributable to him. Which should sound familiar, because its the same excuse you give to Nebula and Thanos when dealing with Adam Warlock and Maelstrom respectively.

And please, if you're gonna use my name in your replies,
be thorough about what I'm saying true debater.

I do appreciate it. 🙂