Orbalisk Bane versus DE Sidious, lightsbaer battle

It doesn't make any difference. Ragnos doesn't have to know everything they know to be leagues ahead of them in power.

Oh, it does make a difference. By admitting that Ragnos doesn't know everything that his inferior (Sadow) does, you can't say that powers that Sadow possesses belongs to Ragnos. So the old excuse of: "Sadow could make stars go supernova - so Ragnos obviously has to be the PWNZOrs!" no longer applies, because Ragnos hasn't been proven to possess that power, that expertise with Sith Alchemy or technology.

When was Sidious said to be the most knowledgeable Sith Lord in reguards to lightsaber combat? Sidious was still learning a lot of things after Darth Maul died, he wasn't the most knowledgeable at that time necessarily. And why would Sidious use Juyo? It doesn't fit his body type or fighting style at all. Sidious didn't know everything on the holocrons in his posession.

Sidious = most Sith knowledge, period. Since Sith knowledge can mean Force powers and saber knowledge, it is "logical" to deduce that Palpatine possessed considerable knowledge of Jedi/Sith fighting forms.

I'm not impressed with your argument, Glentract. You said that Maul learned his fighting form from a holocron. That would mean that the holocron belonged to Sidious. Considering what we know about Sidious - and his thirst for knowledge - it's rather inept of you to try to say that he didn't know it as well.

Sith knowledge is generally just knowledge of the dark side of the force, not knowledge of saber forms.

but to have knowledge in lightsaber forms is still to have knowledge. Like i posted before, I believe its noted in SWInsider #62. And also, why is it so absurd to assume that Sidious knows them all? If Yoda has mastered tham all and Sidious beat him, he would have to know how to counter and adapt to the fighting situation. I don't see why people are so against Sidious knowing all the forms....bane fanboys perhaps? no I'm kidding.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Sith knowledge is generally just knowledge of the dark side of the force, not knowledge of saber forms.

Did you read my argument and his?

He said that Maul likely learned Juyo from a holocron. I said, in that case, it had to have been Sidious's holocron. And it would be sheer stupidity to assume that Sidious didn't view and learn from all of the holocrons he possessed.

Meaning he knew Juyo as well.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
but to have knowledge in lightsaber forms is still to have knowledge. Like i posted before, I believe its noted in SWInsider #62. And also, why is it so absurd to assume that Sidious knows them all? If Yoda has mastered tham all and Sidious beat him, he would have to know how to counter and adapt to the fighting situation. I don't see why people are so against Sidious knowing all the forms....bane fanboys perhaps? no I'm kidding.

Sidious didn't beat him though..Sidious KNEW he couldn't beat him so he got the higher ground.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sidious didn't beat him though..Sidious KNEW he couldn't beat him so he got the higher ground.

Oh, Jesus. Not this again...

Sidious didn't beat or own Yoda. Yoda didn't beat or own Sidious. If you disagree (anyone), you're an idiot. 🙁

Originally posted by Escape81
Did you read my argument and his?

He said that Maul likely learned Juyo from a holocron. I said, in that case, it had to have been Sidious's holocron. And it would be sheer [B]stupidity to assume that Sidious didn't view and learn from all of the holocrons he possessed.

Meaning he knew Juyo as well. [/B]

I don't dispute this, I was just saying that sith teachings/knowledge are generally considered teachings/knowledge of the dark side of force, and that's it, not saber knowledge. I was just addressing this single sentence (Since Sith knowledge can mean Force powers and saber knowledge, it is "logical" to deduce that Palpatine possessed considerable knowledge of Jedi/Sith fighting forms.), I agree with everything else.

I've already said that Sidious "won" because he had a bar "appear" from one seen to the next for him to grab on to, and not fall like Yoda, so maybe i shouldnt have put beat in there.

Originally posted by Escape81
Oh, Jesus. Not this again...

Sidious didn't beat or own Yoda. Yoda didn't beat or own Sidious. If you disagree (anyone), you're an idiot. 🙁

Erm, Sidious beat Yoda, Yoda got blasted off the podium, ended up hurt and bruised, and fled. A clear victory.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Erm, Sidious beat Yoda, Yoda got blasted off the podium, ended up hurt and bruised, and fled. A clear victory.

Actually they both got blasted off, Yoda weighed less and therefore fell further. George Lucas said it was a stalemate of the most powerful of each respective side of the force.

also the "magic rail" is a big factor too. If yoda had one of those he wouldnt have fallen either.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually they both got blasted off, Yoda weighed less and therefore fell further. George Lucas said it was a stalemate of the most powerful of each respective side of the force.

By definition, Sidious won. How it happened doesn't matter, he ended up victorious.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
By definition, Sidious won. How it happened doesn't matter, he ended up victorious.

And what definition is that? He wanted to kill Yoda, he didn't.. Yoda wanted to kill him, he didn't. Yoda lived on and trained Luke, who then destroyed the emperor, so by definition HE won.

But not that particular battle.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And what definition is that?

Sidious ended up victorious, so by definition he won - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/win - To gain the victory.

He wanted to kill Yoda, he didn't.. Yoda wanted to kill him, he didn't. Yoda lived on and trained Luke, who then destroyed the emperor, so by definition HE won.

You're clearly not on the same wavelength as me, I'm talking about the fight itself, you seem to be talking about their goals.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Sidious ended up victorious, so by definition he won - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/win - [b]To gain the victory.

You're clearly not on the same wavelength as me, I'm talking about the fight itself, you seem to be talking about their goals. [/B]

You're obviously not understand the definition of victory. He didn't beat Yoda. They stalemated... They both fell. At the end of the fight Sidious had the worried look on his face. Where do you derive a victory for Sidious from ANY of this? Not to mention George Lucas said it was a S-T-A-L-E-M-A-T-E.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're obviously not understand the definition of victory. He didn't beat Yoda. They stalemated... They both fell. At the end of the fight Sidious had the worried look on his face. Where do you derive a victory for Sidious from ANY of this? Not to mention George Lucas said it was a S-T-A-L-E-M-A-T-E.

Yoda was the one who fell down, and ended up bruised and tired, and was forced to flee because he couldn't win - it's a clear victory on Sidious' part.

The fight itself was a stalemate.

However, Sidious's goal, DS, was to live. Yoda's goal was to kill Sidious. He didn't achieve his goal.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Yoda was the one who fell down, and ended up bruised and tired, and was forced to flee because he couldn't win - it's a clear victory on Sidious' part.

they both fell, he was lighter, he doubled his search for Yoda, it was a stalemate.

I'd be more inclined to say that the force powers battle was a stalemate, but ultimately Sidious won. Yoda said he failed and had to hide, and Sidious ran the galaxy for decades. Yoda failed, hence giving the victory of that battle to Sidious.