Originally posted by debbiejo
😂Quite calling me sexy.
edit...Look, I'm leaving this thread now for the 3rd time.........I'm not coming back..........leave me alone.
Quit using "quite" instead of "quit".
What the hell, that makes no sense. If you want to leave that thread just do so, it's not like I force you back in here to post more bullshit.
Originally posted by FishyThe only part of the oath that has any religious part is at the end and has nothing to do you being religious to be binding and can be omitted. Every person that is applying for citizenship in the US must take this oath, for those that are born here this is what is required of a US citizen.
Does every adult in the US swear that oath? How about people that aren't religious? That oath means nothing to them because it's sworn onto god and if you don't believe in god I don't really see the problem with betraying it...
Originally posted by ThePittman
The only part of the oath that has any religious part is at the end and has nothing to do you being religious to be binding and can be omitted. Every person that is applying for citizenship in the US must take this oath, for those that are born here this is what is required of a US citizen.
That does not matter when talking about the pros and cons of drafts. And the very unfree and authoritarian nature of them.
Originally posted by Bardock42As I said before, there is no major power in this world that doesn’t require its citizens to fight when needed. It is a part of being a citizen of the US and if this doesn’t meet your requirements for life and liberty then you always have the option of leaving and moving to a country that is more of your mindset. Millions of immigrants come here each year and take this oath and know it is a requirement of citizenship to the US, they come from all over the world with different governments and ideologies and know that it is a part of being in the US.
That does not matter when talking about the pros and cons of drafts. And the very unfree and authoritarian nature of them.
I didn’t really see you arguing that there were pros and cons of the draft but that it is wrong and should never be implemented.
Originally posted by ThePittman
As I said before, there is no major power in this world that doesn’t require its citizens to fight when needed. It is a part of being a citizen of the US and if this doesn’t meet your requirements for life and liberty then you always have the option of leaving and moving to a country that is more of your mindset. Millions of immigrants come here each year and take this oath and know it is a requirement of citizenship to the US, they come from all over the world with different governments and ideologies and know that it is a part of being in the US.I didn’t really see you arguing that there were pros and cons of the draft but that it is wrong and should never be implemented.
But they should fight on their own free will. because the country matters to them to even risk their life, not because the government matters to itself so much to force it's citizens to fight for it.
I am not debating that a country can draft people, it's a fact that they can. i am jsut saying that they are not a free country then and that they shouldn't because it is immoral to me.
Well, I of course focusded on the cons, since I am against it. Of course there are pros to some extent...I just think that the cons are much stronger and that is therefore should never be implemented.
Originally posted by Mr. SandmanWhat an idiot you are, I was doing it on purpose......to be annoying...........guess it worked.
LOL If debbiejo isn't blond then the pope isn't catholic.Confusing 'sexist' for 'sexiest' and 'draft to make little boys grow up'. Sounds like bullshit to me.
Stay in the kitchen where you belong woman!
we have it here in sweden! well.... kinda. since we have been cutting down our military most of the ppl who dont want to join dont have to.
but if you get selected there is only a certail period you have to be there.
but still if there should be a crisis thats big enought i guess they are gonna call everyone in on unlimited time.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Because risking your life is an obligation that no human should be forced to accept. Which is why it should be their right to refuse and not by having to leave their home, but just by saying no.
Speak for your own country, pal. All these American kids should eventually have to pay back for all the wonderful freedoms they enjoy. And there's no better way to do it than by putting on a uniform.
Originally posted by Bardock42
But they should fight on their own free will. because the country matters to them to even risk their life, not because the government matters to itself so much to force it's citizens to fight for it.I am not debating that a country can draft people, it's a fact that they can. i am jsut saying that they are not a free country then and that they shouldn't because it is immoral to me.
Well, I of course focusded on the cons, since I am against it. Of course there are pros to some extent...I just think that the cons are much stronger and that is therefore should never be implemented.
Look, when this country is on the verge of collapse and being taken over by another power, a draft will be instituted and the government has every right to do so.
most draftees would'nt get combat roles...they would be given non combat postions and allow those trained soldiers who fill those positions currently to be freed up for front line roles...
the majority of draftees would most likely not even be given military roles but civilian ones
i think the whole debate is a mute point given that the initial number of troops sent into iraq at the beginning of the war was over 350,000 and is now a rotated number of about 160,000....that leaves a large number of troops that can be rotated in and out of Iraq without the need for drafting people
Originally posted by Kinneary
How about paying taxes? No one should be FORCED to die.
Again. I would like to emphasiz that because you are drafted does not mean you put on a uniform and are marched out in a line to get shot. When my grandparents were drafted, they sat and typed docuements all day or gaurded prisons. Just because you are in the military doesn't mean you have a combat role.
I'd believe that you really wouldn't have a combat role as 1. you're porbably not that good, 2. your motivation for being there is likely low, 3. volunteer forces probably wouldn't want conscripts fighting next to them.
A draft for Iraq- not likely, but with other potential enemies the U.S. has singled out, namely Iran and North Korea- there probably will be.
No person should be forced to fight or train to kill another human being by politicians unless the country is going to be invaded and then in that situation most people would fight anyway. And by invaded I actually mean taking your or an allies terrority by force I don't mean events like 9/11 which was nothing more than a terrorist attack (or if you are a conspiracy theorist then not) that no country claimed responsiblity for. Yet the U.S. Government and Tony Blair deemed it necessary to flatten Iraq for some reason.
And like some people I don't feel it a requirement to hold a gun to be brave and heroic.
Originally posted by Alliance
I'd believe that you really wouldn't have a combat role as 1. you're porbably not that good
What do you mean "not that good"?
Originally posted by Alliance
3. volunteer forces probably wouldn't want conscripts fighting next to them.
As for that; I wouldn't care if the guy next to me was a conscript. Conscript or not, he doesn't wanna die just as badly as I don't. My second oldest son, who's in the service, tells me the exact same thing.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Speak for your own country, pal. All these American kids should eventually have to pay back for all the wonderful freedoms they enjoy. And there's no better way to do it than by putting on a uniform.
Look, I don't have to speak for my own country. My arguent is easy, if you are forced to risk your life in a war for your country (forced) then your country isn't free. That's it. There are arguents for and against drafts, but I find the fascist "forced" part to be the best against...
Originally posted by J-Beowulf
Look, when this country is on the verge of collapse and being taken over by another power, a draft will be instituted and the government has every right to do so.
Right...that's idiotic, the government has every right to do anything...it can create and change laws. The government has the right to behead people for adultery (in some countries) it has the right to search your house and everything without a hint ...it can have any right it wants. It is still authoritartian and unfree.
Originally posted by Alliance
Again. I would like to emphasiz that because you are drafted does not mean you put on a uniform and are marched out in a line to get shot. When my grandparents were drafted, they sat and typed docuements all day or gaurded prisons. Just because you are in the military doesn't mean you have a combat role.I'd believe that you really wouldn't have a combat role as 1. you're porbably not that good, 2. your motivation for being there is likely low, 3. volunteer forces probably wouldn't want conscripts fighting next to them.
Sounds even fairer, some have to type documents the others may collect the rest of your organs after they were hit by a grenade....great.
You're right, this country isn't "free," because in order to preserve the union in a time of dire distress, the government is able (through congress, elected by the people no less) to conscript young men into the military.
It is not a matter of being "free". Saying this country isn't free is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If the country needs us (young men) to preserve itself, we go.
If it is not necessary (Vietnam) than there should be no draft, no question.
Originally posted by ThePittman
The only free government is no government or otherwise anarchy.
Sounds like a plan...although, I can accept a government as free if it is a social contract that people willingly accepted. To die in a war is usually notpart of the willing contract, but more part of the governmetn deciding that it itself is ore important than the individuals it is made up off.