Re: Re: Lucas is an idiot!
Originally posted by Broke Beat
.....yet you still watch his movies 😕
Yeah we still watch his movies
Some of us watch em like i watch ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST and think maybe this time McMurphy will climb out the window with the Chief.
We watch em hoping that another look will make it better this time....i was going to say DIFFERENT but this is STAR WARS and we all know that this happens yearly.
But all that happens is i end up in a lobotomized state,dribbling and hoping for someone to smother me with a pillow to take me out of my PT misery.
Re: Re: Re: Lucas is an idiot!
Originally posted by vintageSW77i just dont understand how hes an idiot when he made the very thing you read and debate about. he caused a cultural movement, and his movies have influenced and inspired alot of people both famous and non-famous. Hes the reason theres even a thread to debate about this shit. i think its silly that you guys pick apart every little peice of the trilogy like its supposed to be perfect, then chastize and criticize him about it as if you could've done it better? yeah, obviously the acting and scripting wasnt as good as the OT, but how does that make him an idiot or a dumbass? he gives you something masterful with the OT, then he gives you something not as good you expected or hoped for with the PT, and for that all of a sudden hes a complete idiot?
Yeah we still watch his movies
Some of us watch em like i watch ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST and think maybe this time McMurphy will climb out the window with the Chief.
We watch em hoping that another look will make it better this time....i was going to say DIFFERENT but this is STAR WARS and we all know that this happens yearly.
But all that happens is i end up in a lobotomized state,dribbling and hoping for someone to smother me with a pillow to take me out of my PT misery.
i dont come in this forum too much but when i do, i see threads critizing the most miniscule tiny details about the movies, like ohh Palpatines head wasnt on straight in the Mace Windu duel, OMG THEY SUCK, IT RUINED THE MOVIE, or ohhh the duel choreography sucked....ya know just silly stuff like that. its like if your gonna b!tch about stuff like that then dont even watch the movie. I for one dont have a problem with the PT, it wasnt that bad that i want to make a big fuss over it.
Im not hating on you guys or anything, i just think its silly to do that. I mean the man isnt perfect, the movies arent perfect, he never said they were supposed to be perfect. He spent have his life making the shit some of you guys have in your favorite movie list and just cuz you dont like how the last ones turned out hes an idiot all of a sudden.
You're right.
I honestly don't think people realize the effect Star Wars has had on pop culture...and especially on their lives. I really don't think they realize what they'd be missing if it were never made...they take for granted that it's there becasue it's such a staple in cinema, making it easy to get carried away when criticizing it.
It's like people who always criticize Shaq...from free throws to you name it...he gets some serious heat year after year. Yet at the end of the day...it's Shaq!!...and Shaq's pretty darn awesome! He's an icon. I'm glad basketball has Shaq...and I'm glad cinema has Star Wars.
I can honestly say that I have a couple of main complaints regarding Ep III and the constant OT tinkering, but I can openly admit that I love it all regardless...PT OT EU R2 D2...and it's cause Lucas is a genius...(he's not good at making us like his stuff anymore, he just makes us love it).
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You're right.I honestly don't think people realize the effect Star Wars has had on pop culture...and especially on their lives. I really don't think they realize what they'd be missing if it were never made...they take for granted that it's there becasue it's such a staple in cinema, making it easy to get carried away when criticizing it.
I think you're underestimating us.
Originally posted by Alliance
People like me. I know full well Star Wars' effect on pop culture etc...that doesnt' mean I have to be a ZOMG LUcas is GODLOLZORz fanboy about it.
...and are you implying I'm a fanboy???...'cause fanboys are my specialty. 😄
It's not about nitpicking around here, I think the nitpicking is a symptom of a more general problem some of us have with the PT in general. The one who denies the influence of SW is the true idiot, its influence is HUGE... all over the world.
However, most (if not all) of that influence was caused by the OT, not so much by the PT. I personally think the PT is seriously flawed on the very counts that made the OT great: story and storytelling. Especially ANH and ESB set the stage for an completely unknown new style and approach to sci-fi-type films: visually, effrects-wise, look and sound... it was astounding. We are now so used to it, but it was groundbreaking on many counts and THAT caused it's enormous influence on pop culture. But as Lucas always insisted: the effects were merely tools for storytelling, the story came first. He struggled long and hard with SW, but after reading into the mythology analysis of Joseph Campbell and being influenced by Japanese director-icon Kurosawa, THEN he knew how to apporach it - he got the STORY right....
But the PT is seriously flawed in the storytelling department, it's CGI is astounding but no longer groundbreaking. The PT films will not be remembered by the masses as the OT is, no classics there. And it seems like the technological possibilities of modern technology allowed Lucas to make his vision in the most literal sense: visuals! And the storytelling is meager... the bad acting kinda stresses that. I mean, the OT has some moments of lousy acting (except I think ESB), but it didn't decrease the power of the story. Here, the story isn't great and the bad acting and horrible dialogue made it more clear... and this time the actors are a lot better from the start! ANH had unknown actors, the PT is loaded with film stars. So if they can't act properly, maybe there's something seriously wrong with either the story, the characters or the direction. And since Lucas wanted his visuals, everything was played out in front of green/blue screen, so he must have failed to include all the other storytellers (i.e. actors among others) in his 'vision'.
And the nitpicking then comes naturally because you see the flawedness of the PT in so many things.
The thing that kinda pisses me off about LUcas a little bit is that he appear to claim that he mapped out everything in the 70s and that he needed CGI to create his vision, where effects were merely tools of storytelling. Well, I find that ironic since the PT storytelling is substandard.... IMHO.
Although, I did like ROTS (sorry, EPIIIbites... 😉 )
AGREED
Lucas has turned into his own creation - Palpatine
He is surrounded by yes men...with McCallum his Vader and John Knoll his Tarkin.
He answers to nobody.
There lies the problem with the PT.
I know he had near total control dfuring ESB and ROTJ but over the years leading up to the PT he created his Empire...turning his back on his mentors along the way - Coppolla-the Darth Plagueis
of this play-and became THE EMPEROR of LUCASFILM.
Remember how Lucasfilm went through the net closing down internet sites during the prequels....and the rebel posters who emerged victorious -for a few hours at least -
and now the fans refusing to buy this months re release??
Life imitating art.
Originally posted by queeq
it's CGI is astounding but no longer groundbreaking.
(Though there was nothing special about ROTS)
Originally posted by queeq
The PT films will not be remembered by the masses as the OT is, no classics there.
NO. Star Wars film will ever equal ANH, but why don't we wait a bit and let people's OT Fanboy wet dreams dry up a bit before we go on predicting the legacy of the films.
Originally posted by queeq
And it seems like the technological possibilities of modern technology allowed Lucas to make his vision in the most literal sense: visuals!
QUOTE-
NO. Star Wars film will ever equal ANH, but why don't we wait a bit and let people's OT Fanboy wet dreams dry up a bit before we go on predicting the legacy of the films.
My OT fanboys wet dreams dried up on the 19th May 1999 as did many others
we had a MASSIVE wet dream dry up around 1997 too and all.
JarJar as a digital character... okay, they made it... BUT the character SUCKED!!!!!! And then came Gollum and made ILM look like overpaid, arrogant surfers that were beaten easily by a few New Zealanders... Gollum made hisotry, JarJar only as the most annoying creature ever designed for film. He could compete only with another Lucasfilm creation: Howard the Duck.
The PT SW films are already out of the loop. No one refers to them, nothing from the PT is quoted (except by fanboys), the PT SW films will always stand in the shadow of the OT.
the fact that Lucas was soooo limited during the making of the OT was his salvation, he was forced to be creative within the limitations and succeeded very well. When the limitations were gone in making the PT, he lost his art.
I always wondered what would have happened if Jar Jar would have been less silly and more like a Chewie character.
Was he always intended to be that way i.e Irritating
Is there evidence that Lucas intended originally to create a more serious character who would have accompanied say Padme throughout the whole PT.
Or was he designed to be the way he turned out from day one.
I always got the impression that Jar Jar was going to be in the other prequels a whole lot more than he turned out to be....i know he was sidelined because of the reactions of people like myself and queeq but is there any proof that Jar Jar was meant to have a larger role??
I will have to differ with you Queeq for saying that Weta did better work than ILM though.
As much as i dislike the PT..ILM was robbed at the oscars.
That's what happens if you make uninteresting movies. And Gollum was way better than JarJar and the Hulk (two digital creations by ILM).
Lucas always said he wanted TPM to be a kids film, since the others would be darker. So he created, among other things, JarJar for comic relief... Chewie for kids, he does have the charm of an Ewok.
And I never flamed JarJar that much. Mostly because JJ was sidelined in the rest of the PT, he became another passer-by character, obsolete... who needs him? He has no character development, he's nerdy, not funny and only very little kids like him. So I'm sure Lucas would have wanted to give him a larger role in the other prequels... but he started writing AOTC after TPm was out... so I doubt tehre is any concrete proof, only what Lucas will tell us.
Hmm...
too many posts to quote.
I know that Lucas spent lots of time writing these, and that he took great care to connect the characters, themes, and situations to the other films, so that they would fit together.
I enjoy the PT.
I saw each one in the theatre, and enjoyed it the most of any film out in those years.
I like them still.
Nobody thinks that the PT is better than the OT as a whole, though I still say that ROTJ is about the same level as any PT film.
But Lucas is no idiot.
He made the movies that he wanted to make.
Perhaps we were all the "idiots" for thinking that revolutionary films that changed cinema, sci-fi, and movie-making, would some how ever be equaled.
At best, they can be expanded on, since the second time around is never going to equal the experience of the first.
There are enough awesome moments in the PT that the hammy acting and clunky diolauge doesn't get in the way, just as with ANH and ROTJ. (Empire is flawless however, and my fave of the saga.)